JetBird moves closer to air taxi launch
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bristol
Age: 54
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When I checked their one way pricing it is similar to our pricing plus a brokers commission, but the day returns, 1 - 4 overnights are 30%+ more than our prices even from routes to and from Cologne -
It's obviously a model based on avoiding brokers commission and based on loaded sectors. If they are willing to guarantee availability they may take some Bravo / Diamond Jet clients from Netjets, but I'd be surprised if they could run more than 1-4 aircraft to any great level of utilisation.
Given the dire performance of Claret's investment portfolio, I don't see this working, the cash injections would be big and monthly if they even take delivery of 10% of the alleged orders.
It's obviously a model based on avoiding brokers commission and based on loaded sectors. If they are willing to guarantee availability they may take some Bravo / Diamond Jet clients from Netjets, but I'd be surprised if they could run more than 1-4 aircraft to any great level of utilisation.
Given the dire performance of Claret's investment portfolio, I don't see this working, the cash injections would be big and monthly if they even take delivery of 10% of the alleged orders.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,904
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Something, I don't know what it is, is still possessing men to spend hundreds of millions on launching risky unproven ideas in the worst possible climate. Every single startup airline gives projections of the kind that are only found in lala land. JB has been a long time in the making, and the investment in the startup seems to be sound but for the life of me I can't see such an operation lasting for more than a year. It does occasionally happen, but only 1 in 5 are even remotely successful. Only 1 in 100 ever meet the projections they make.
I am currently on their files and am due a call for a telephone based interview next month. I hope and pray I get the job and JB do well but I'm far too realistic for this world (and probably my own good) to believe that they are even going to have 10% of the success NetJets have had.
I am currently on their files and am due a call for a telephone based interview next month. I hope and pray I get the job and JB do well but I'm far too realistic for this world (and probably my own good) to believe that they are even going to have 10% of the success NetJets have had.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Bristol
Age: 54
Posts: 867
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Claret Capital left with three directors as executive resigns | The Post
I don't think I'd pack in my job to be part of the revolution to be honest.
PB
I don't think I'd pack in my job to be part of the revolution to be honest.
PB
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: uk
Age: 75
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Sorry to be doom and gloom again but Phil and I have tended to agree about the viability of start ups (especially VLJ's) over the last 12 months and we have been prooved correct.
JB will only operate as long as the investors are willing to poor cash into the operation. Once that stops the operation will stop. The business model yet again is flawed as it cannot generate profit to keep it going. Too many people think the measure of a successful company is the amount of money being pumped into it. That is muddled thinking.
JB will only operate as long as the investors are willing to poor cash into the operation. Once that stops the operation will stop. The business model yet again is flawed as it cannot generate profit to keep it going. Too many people think the measure of a successful company is the amount of money being pumped into it. That is muddled thinking.
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: in a van down by the river
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
So, what your saying is that this could possibly affect the phone interview and the 100 Phenoms waiting to take flight and revolutionize the way mankind travels?
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: United States of Europe
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fireboy and Warthog
i think the responses of some later posters highlight my point. jb is a tall order in this market.
the jr jb similarity is we have people investing in buying a large fleet of aircraft in the hope (sweet hope) that they will break even/produce a return on investment.
no matter how you wrap it, its based on aircraft fleet ownership, marketing, competing in a tricky market for market share, and the hope for break even.
it also involves a huge jet order..... i stand by my view, JR or JB....nice idea but risky and coming into a flooded market
backers? - jr also had backers with deep pockets, but i presumed their plug pulling was what caused the 'revolution' of jr to founder. backers are no fools and dont throw cash away forever......deep pockets may be, but they always have a bottom....
re the comment "i dont have anything useful to say?" .... its a free country, if you dont like my opinion...come up with one of your own :-) and lets reconvene in a year to see who s right ;-)
i think the responses of some later posters highlight my point. jb is a tall order in this market.
the jr jb similarity is we have people investing in buying a large fleet of aircraft in the hope (sweet hope) that they will break even/produce a return on investment.
no matter how you wrap it, its based on aircraft fleet ownership, marketing, competing in a tricky market for market share, and the hope for break even.
it also involves a huge jet order..... i stand by my view, JR or JB....nice idea but risky and coming into a flooded market
backers? - jr also had backers with deep pockets, but i presumed their plug pulling was what caused the 'revolution' of jr to founder. backers are no fools and dont throw cash away forever......deep pockets may be, but they always have a bottom....
re the comment "i dont have anything useful to say?" .... its a free country, if you dont like my opinion...come up with one of your own :-) and lets reconvene in a year to see who s right ;-)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: schermoney and left front seat
Age: 57
Posts: 2,438
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
backers are no fools and dont throw cash away forever......deep pockets may be, but they always have a bottom....
If one compares the investment and the return on it, its clear that you need to be an enthusiast to buy an airplane or that you simply want to keep the costs down by renting out. Making real money is possible in the upturn years, when everyone gets crazy and pays whatever to get an airplane - like the years we had fueled mainly by the russians. The moment of truth however comes in the tricky business enviroment of a slowdown or crisis. As we see and hear even a company like Netjets, that started long ago in a way more aviationfriendly enviroment and is backed by of the richest companies on this planet with its excellent connections directly to clients struggles (other investment connections) and faces losses (again, after being profitable only for a short period[in Europe])
Even if JB has the necessary backing for a long time (which it has not IMO - 'plan to be profitable in 2011') I don´t see where the return on investment should be attractive for 'backers'
Sure hope they prove me wrong....
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: groom lake
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Go Jetbird go....
Lets just sit it out and hope that operation Jetbird gets off the ground.
With the hope of 5-10 aircraft in place by year end, and with nothing but dark clouds in the Industry right now, lets just hope this will be the silver lining for all concerned .They've got the finance in place , a great team and the right choice of aircraft in the Phenom 100.
Jetbirds are go !!!!
With the hope of 5-10 aircraft in place by year end, and with nothing but dark clouds in the Industry right now, lets just hope this will be the silver lining for all concerned .They've got the finance in place , a great team and the right choice of aircraft in the Phenom 100.
Jetbirds are go !!!!
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 14 days away 14 at home
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The DEEC: I think hope is the right wording....
As long as people are smart enough not to pay for their rating or pay to move to work for them it should be ok. The changes that it will get off the ground are semi ok. The changes it will fly in the long run is 0. I am offered a brand new CJ3 for less than 2K an hour, and the aircraft still hardly flies... So go figure
As long as people are smart enough not to pay for their rating or pay to move to work for them it should be ok. The changes that it will get off the ground are semi ok. The changes it will fly in the long run is 0. I am offered a brand new CJ3 for less than 2K an hour, and the aircraft still hardly flies... So go figure
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: 'nam..................(Cheltenham).
Posts: 51
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JB will be little more than a temporary resting place for pilots in these troubled times. Their pay is, shall we say, less than generous and once German tax is deducted (particularly for married auslanders whose spouse do not move to Germany with them) barely worth having expecially after commuting/living costs are deducted.
Expect an exodus when the market improves.
Expect an exodus when the market improves.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Let's look at the evidence. Everyone's saying around 45-50% reduction in business, most commonly at the entry level jet end of the business. Ask any operator in the UK or Europe and they'll report the same (well, after they've told you that it's the best time ever of course as we're always terribly positive!) Look at the aircraft that Netjets have parked up at the moment, it's mainly the entry level; look at the aircraft that aren't flying in Europe, it's mainly the entry level. There is a massive theme here.
Whilst there might well be finance behind it, if there aren't any punters it's not a great investment is it.
I know that this is PPRuNe and it's all about the "PP"'s so you want to be positive in a market where jobs aren't readily available, but at the same time, you have to inject just a little bit of realism into the world. I guess if I was unemployed then a job on a Phenom is as perfect as any, but would I leave a job to join them? No, because ultimately unless there's some amazing scheme or untapped market out there which none of us have identified (bearing in mind that the vast majority of quarter-sharers are in, or directly related to, the financial industry which, whilst still paying massive bonuses, are paying them now to a lot less people) then I don't see, believe or understand how it can work.
Maybe I'm being negative and this is why I'll never make billions of dollars, but I'm just concious that, like JR, someone will always end up getting stung and that's not fair, paints the market in a bad light and makes us all look like Walter Mitty amateurs.
You can all laugh at me when they make their first million
Whilst there might well be finance behind it, if there aren't any punters it's not a great investment is it.
I know that this is PPRuNe and it's all about the "PP"'s so you want to be positive in a market where jobs aren't readily available, but at the same time, you have to inject just a little bit of realism into the world. I guess if I was unemployed then a job on a Phenom is as perfect as any, but would I leave a job to join them? No, because ultimately unless there's some amazing scheme or untapped market out there which none of us have identified (bearing in mind that the vast majority of quarter-sharers are in, or directly related to, the financial industry which, whilst still paying massive bonuses, are paying them now to a lot less people) then I don't see, believe or understand how it can work.
Maybe I'm being negative and this is why I'll never make billions of dollars, but I'm just concious that, like JR, someone will always end up getting stung and that's not fair, paints the market in a bad light and makes us all look like Walter Mitty amateurs.
You can all laugh at me when they make their first million
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: uk
Age: 75
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Daifly
Noboby will be laughing at you because you are spot on.
Anybody with a little knowledge of excell can produce a great business plan. The incredible thing is that this plan can be flogged to investors. The unknown factor in the equation is "who are going to be the punters"? As the existing client base has declined by 50% where are the paying clients coming from? Convertees from RyanAir?
As they say "suggest you don't leave your day job"
Noboby will be laughing at you because you are spot on.
Anybody with a little knowledge of excell can produce a great business plan. The incredible thing is that this plan can be flogged to investors. The unknown factor in the equation is "who are going to be the punters"? As the existing client base has declined by 50% where are the paying clients coming from? Convertees from RyanAir?
As they say "suggest you don't leave your day job"
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: groom lake
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jetbird v Netjets
Even Netjets were once the acorn who stood their ground and became the
mighty operation they are today.
I still believe there is a market for the jb product in todays biz environment,
with companies downsizing and looking for better ways to reduce costs.
It will however all depend on how well they market their business and how well they can convince new customers to climb aboard.
I reckon it will be a tough call and all we can do is wish them every success.
mighty operation they are today.
I still believe there is a market for the jb product in todays biz environment,
with companies downsizing and looking for better ways to reduce costs.
It will however all depend on how well they market their business and how well they can convince new customers to climb aboard.
I reckon it will be a tough call and all we can do is wish them every success.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 14 days away 14 at home
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I still believe there is a market for the jb product in todays biz environment,
with companies downsizing and looking for better ways to reduce costs.
with companies downsizing and looking for better ways to reduce costs.
The people downsizing and cutting cost are sending their staff to Air Berlin and friends...
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Hole
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Wibble, nr Wibble
Posts: 94
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
VLJs Are Vital, Says LEA...But Not Perfect | Private Jet Daily
A fairly reasonable view of the whole VLJ argument from the CEO of LEA
A fairly reasonable view of the whole VLJ argument from the CEO of LEA
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: anywhere but home?
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JB is go!
Guys stop being so negative. I know on good authority that a number of pilots have already been employed and got their type ratings, others are on type rating courses right now, and others are starting courses imminently. Many more with employment promised in near future. Great news for the pilot community as a whole.
I appreciate that employing pilots etc means nothing (except for those now in employment!) regarding the business plan - but I would say things are looking bright despite all you cynics.
So watch this space and by all means slag them off if things don't work out - but in the mean time just give them the benefit of the doubt. Unlike other companies (eg JR) costs are being sensibly managed and contained....
I appreciate that employing pilots etc means nothing (except for those now in employment!) regarding the business plan - but I would say things are looking bright despite all you cynics.
So watch this space and by all means slag them off if things don't work out - but in the mean time just give them the benefit of the doubt. Unlike other companies (eg JR) costs are being sensibly managed and contained....
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: 14 days away 14 at home
Posts: 699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On the debt advisory side, Claret is working on a $200 million mandate to finance new aircraft that will be delivered in 2010.
Condor:
but I would say things are looking bright despite all you cynics.
