Citation SOPs
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Citation SOPs
Hi mates,
we are starting an operation with a citation bravo, does anyone of you got some company SOPs where you work that is good. Even flash checklist that works good for you.
Thanks
we are starting an operation with a citation bravo, does anyone of you got some company SOPs where you work that is good. Even flash checklist that works good for you.
Thanks
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going through different SOP's-some B737,A320,C525 I have found the SOP's are highly overestimated sources of "everything"......Sure, usual call outs...some general words........nothing really serious...How about which screen should show what in any moment of the flight...and bunch of little small details which make the job to look like a professionaly mixed mess? Does anyone have some SOP as to serve like an example of really meaningfull source of orientation?
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The main part of a good SOP is the expanded checklist. I have a good checklist that you can have a look at (its for a different type though...). It specifies each item with what to check for, what to do and if there is a callout for that item. It may seem like making the job really complicated, but if it's a multi crew environment it really helps if everyone knows what's happening.
PM me if you want to take a look at it.
/LnS
PM me if you want to take a look at it.
/LnS
Sorry to say, but I strongly disagree with that post of Suhoi27
SOPs are very important and include a lot more than just a few callouts. It is not easy to come up with a solid set of SOP's. If your company only operates one type and commonality with other fleets is not a rquirement it might be ok to copy/paste someone elses SOP's. But make sure that they are acceptable to your authority.
At my present company it has taken years to come up with a solid set of SOP's that meet all current legal requirements and best practices, such as the requirements of the IOSA audit (IATA).
Some things that should be included: Callouts for all phases of flight, including flight mode awareness, altimeter setting and checking procedures, task allocation (who does what and when), scan flows, if not published elsewhere, closed loop philosophy for configuartion changes, movement of critical switches, briefings (timing, content etc), checklist philosophy (challenge/response, but not for all flight phases perhaps), stabilised approach criteria etc etc.
There is so much more and the above is only meant to give you an idea of what should be there. I would try and get my hands on a part B of the biggest operator of Citations in Europe (if that is where you are going to operate) and take it from there.
If you are not a commercial operation you won't legally need all of this but would be well advised to be as professional as possible, also in terms of SOPs.
Hope this helps.
edited to say: obviously, the bigger the company and the more pilots, the more important all this gets. If only two pilots fly only one aircraft you ca probably get away with a less specific set of rules if those two pilots work well together. Having flown together before helps as does a similar training background. However, as the company grows and/or other pilots join, proper SOPs become even more important. Having said all that, if you have decided on a specific set of SOPs, it is important to use them from day one (sim and line training).
SOPs are very important and include a lot more than just a few callouts. It is not easy to come up with a solid set of SOP's. If your company only operates one type and commonality with other fleets is not a rquirement it might be ok to copy/paste someone elses SOP's. But make sure that they are acceptable to your authority.
At my present company it has taken years to come up with a solid set of SOP's that meet all current legal requirements and best practices, such as the requirements of the IOSA audit (IATA).
Some things that should be included: Callouts for all phases of flight, including flight mode awareness, altimeter setting and checking procedures, task allocation (who does what and when), scan flows, if not published elsewhere, closed loop philosophy for configuartion changes, movement of critical switches, briefings (timing, content etc), checklist philosophy (challenge/response, but not for all flight phases perhaps), stabilised approach criteria etc etc.
There is so much more and the above is only meant to give you an idea of what should be there. I would try and get my hands on a part B of the biggest operator of Citations in Europe (if that is where you are going to operate) and take it from there.
If you are not a commercial operation you won't legally need all of this but would be well advised to be as professional as possible, also in terms of SOPs.
Hope this helps.
edited to say: obviously, the bigger the company and the more pilots, the more important all this gets. If only two pilots fly only one aircraft you ca probably get away with a less specific set of rules if those two pilots work well together. Having flown together before helps as does a similar training background. However, as the company grows and/or other pilots join, proper SOPs become even more important. Having said all that, if you have decided on a specific set of SOPs, it is important to use them from day one (sim and line training).
Last edited by 733driver; 12th Mar 2009 at 22:37.
B733 is correct.
SOP's are usually developed with at least some input from the manufacturer (who in turn serves as a bit of a crucible for feedback from other operators plus investigations of incidents), who has also run the flight test program leading to type certification. Operators (especially first-time operators of a new type) who choose to ignore manufacturers recommendations are "...looking for somewhere to happen..." as the saying goes.
Similarly, adapting SOP's from another type can have some pitfalls. Whilst a degree of standardisation across different fleets is important, this should cover things such as standard calls and phraseologies.
Stick to the manufacturers checklist and you can't go wrong.
SOP's are usually developed with at least some input from the manufacturer (who in turn serves as a bit of a crucible for feedback from other operators plus investigations of incidents), who has also run the flight test program leading to type certification. Operators (especially first-time operators of a new type) who choose to ignore manufacturers recommendations are "...looking for somewhere to happen..." as the saying goes.
Similarly, adapting SOP's from another type can have some pitfalls. Whilst a degree of standardisation across different fleets is important, this should cover things such as standard calls and phraseologies.
Stick to the manufacturers checklist and you can't go wrong.
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I would be seriously happy If someone can convince me that I am not right. We do have an approved SOP but they show around 15% of the whole picture-no specific details....nothing........That is why I have found at least 4 other SOP's, on different companies, bigger aircrafts.....still the same joke....
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Suhoi27
I think you are missing the point. SOPs are not there to tell you how to conduct every minute aspect of your flight. They are there to provide a framework of normal day to day proceedures so that when you jump onboard, whether its with your best mate or a complete stranger, you've both got some idea about what each of you is doing.
Quite useful for monitoring things like situational awareness, incapacitation, cowboy tendancies...
Happy landings
oap
I think you are missing the point. SOPs are not there to tell you how to conduct every minute aspect of your flight. They are there to provide a framework of normal day to day proceedures so that when you jump onboard, whether its with your best mate or a complete stranger, you've both got some idea about what each of you is doing.
Quite useful for monitoring things like situational awareness, incapacitation, cowboy tendancies...
Happy landings
oap
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I seriously hope there are few pilots out there with the same attitude as Suhoi. SOPs are there as part of CRM standardisation for the primary concern for all which is...SAFETY!
Some people on here scare me sometimes!
BTW: I know a few ops who base their SOPs on CAE/Flightsaftey. It kind of makes sense, if you do your training with these companies and use their SOPs and they are decent, why change them too much apart from making them company specific?
Open for criticism...
Some people on here scare me sometimes!
BTW: I know a few ops who base their SOPs on CAE/Flightsaftey. It kind of makes sense, if you do your training with these companies and use their SOPs and they are decent, why change them too much apart from making them company specific?
Open for criticism...
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Flight safety doesn't give standart SOPs, it is the role of the operator (chief pilot) to issue SOPs based on the procedures of the constructors and adapted to the reality of the company's operation's. But the truth is that some cowboys here never really used SOPs because you don't need it on a single pilot aircraft, SOPs CRM MCC are made to define precise roles of each crewmember, for better SAFETY. Nuff said !
