FAA operators in the UK?
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FAA operators in the UK?
Are there many Biz jet operators in the UK that operate N reg A/c? I can't get a JAA medical due to eyesight but can get an FAA one 
, just wondering if there are many companies/ individuals that would employ FAA pilots in the uk? 
, just wondering if there are many companies/ individuals that would employ FAA pilots in the uk?
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There are a large number of privately owned 'N' reg biz jets based in the UK.
There ARE jobs around, but most operators tend to want quite a few hours and some experience.
There ARE jobs around, but most operators tend to want quite a few hours and some experience.
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"There are a large number of privately owned 'N' reg biz jets based in the UK.
There ARE jobs around, but most operators tend to want quite a few hours and some experience"
Do you know any companies that fly N reg jets? or websites likely to have there listings?
There ARE jobs around, but most operators tend to want quite a few hours and some experience"
Do you know any companies that fly N reg jets? or websites likely to have there listings?
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. . .
Just click on USA, then look up the address in FAA registry.
LAAS International - Foreign Registered Aircraft Based in the UK
N-Number Inquiry
LAAS International - Foreign Registered Aircraft Based in the UK
N-Number Inquiry
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I could be wrong, but most operators I've spoken to who operate N Reg in the UK seem to want both JAA and FAA, even if its to fly an N.
It could be an experience thing with the insurance companies, <2000TT or as most of these companies only manage the aircraft, they might be covering themselves in the event that they could get a JAR aircraft on fleet as well.
Just what I've experienced...
It could be an experience thing with the insurance companies, <2000TT or as most of these companies only manage the aircraft, they might be covering themselves in the event that they could get a JAR aircraft on fleet as well.
Just what I've experienced...
Also, maybe because EASA is promising to find a way to stop Pilot's with FAA only tickets operating full time in European airspace. They were proposing to force dual FAA and JAA licences for N reg ops.
Before you all say 'they can't do that or else how can American Airlines fly into Heathrow?'...they have thought of that one and are proposing something like a 90 day limit.
It is possible though that the new Isle of Man register may still be okay as they validate JAA and FAA tickets.
Also I managed to find an N reg job in the UK with relatively low hours, except it didnt last! It's down to who you know.
It's jobs for the boys industry.
Before you all say 'they can't do that or else how can American Airlines fly into Heathrow?'...they have thought of that one and are proposing something like a 90 day limit.
It is possible though that the new Isle of Man register may still be okay as they validate JAA and FAA tickets.
Also I managed to find an N reg job in the UK with relatively low hours, except it didnt last! It's down to who you know.
It's jobs for the boys industry.
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Not Over Here Please
HI
I have both FAA and JAA and I really don't like the idea that people are going around with just an FAA ticket, and flying, while the rest of us have jumped through the CAA exam mine field to get our first job in the uk.
Like some pilots and operators (EGNX)
It is also very hard for small AOC ops to compete against the FAA rules which tend to be less limiting. I feel if its based in europe for more than 30days it needs to have a JAA crew on board.
I have both FAA and JAA and I really don't like the idea that people are going around with just an FAA ticket, and flying, while the rest of us have jumped through the CAA exam mine field to get our first job in the uk.
Like some pilots and operators (EGNX)
It is also very hard for small AOC ops to compete against the FAA rules which tend to be less limiting. I feel if its based in europe for more than 30days it needs to have a JAA crew on board.
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Well at the risk of opening a can of worms, at least two of the operators I have spoken to in the past have said that part of the reason they insist on the JAA license as well is that they at least know that the candidate has passed a tough process in obtaining such as opposed to the not so rigorous FAA ticket.
I have both and it does annoy me a little when I see someone who went to the states for a month sitting making up the numbers in an interview waiting room in the UK.
Like I said........Head down awaiting incoming.....
I have both and it does annoy me a little when I see someone who went to the states for a month sitting making up the numbers in an interview waiting room in the UK.
Like I said........Head down awaiting incoming.....
Well, what can I say?! Thats not even worthy of a reply!
Although the thread starter can see from this what sort of attitudes you will come acrross in the UK!
The best of luck to you!
Although the thread starter can see from this what sort of attitudes you will come acrross in the UK!
The best of luck to you!
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Lets be honest here.. the JAA ticket is a whole lot of over complicated guff and we should try to average out the requirements so we can have a joint ICAO one. Having excessively deep going theory that you will forget as soon as the written is done is a waste of brain power and does not make you a better pilot. I have both FAA and JAA and have seen weak aviators on both sides. Paperwork and redtape does not equate safety..
To keep this thread on track, be aware that you can fly VP registered aircraft as well with an FAA-based validation. All the usual suspects fly these (small operators as well as the big players) . But like somebody said, usually the insurance co's dictate hour requirements.
To keep this thread on track, be aware that you can fly VP registered aircraft as well with an FAA-based validation. All the usual suspects fly these (small operators as well as the big players) . But like somebody said, usually the insurance co's dictate hour requirements.
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Not wishing to get into the JAA / FAA battle as it will never go away ( and as someone on another thread said, who are we to question the USA when it was the birthplace of powered flight?...) , I was merely asking what sort of potential employment possibilities I had on a FAA licence in europe, preferably the uk..
I fail to see (no pun intended!) why the FAA are quite happy to issue a class one medical for visual limits with a statement of demonstrated ability, where the JAA staunchly refuse to even consider it... We all operate in the same skys, so are the JAA saying an FAA pilot with a medical deviation is LESS safe than a JAA pilot on the limits of the class one JAA eyesight regs?
I fail to see (no pun intended!) why the FAA are quite happy to issue a class one medical for visual limits with a statement of demonstrated ability, where the JAA staunchly refuse to even consider it
... We all operate in the same skys, so are the JAA saying an FAA pilot with a medical deviation is LESS safe than a JAA pilot on the limits of the class one JAA eyesight regs?
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I have never read such a load of protectionism and arogance in a thread like this.
If you hold those views then forget 90 days! Ban any N reg aircraft with any FAA licenced crew from invading our airspace for one day or one hour as they are all a load of untrained idiots endangering our skies?
Statistically an FAA ATP is as safe as a JAA ATP and the rest is a load of mungo jumbo.
If anything is wrong its the system and its self protectionism and I am holier than thou attitude.
Aviation knows no boundaries an FAA pilot should be as good as a JAA pilot if anyone can point out a statistic showing otherwise then its easy then ban all FAA airliners from European Airspace if not then we should all be accepted and forget this self protectionism and arrogance because thats all its about.
The same goes for aircraft certification and licencing, medical requirements the lot. Its all about huge costs for the boys and jobs for the boys not backed up by any statistics showing safety issues between the two.
And there will be some regulator paid for a job he needs to justify running around trying to ban this or that to fill his unproductive week with something to do other than creating work for himself and loading an industry with extra costs it can ill afford to take.
The only thing that could be morally justified between the two is a requirement for FAA pilots to take Air Law exams to comply with diffrerences in Europe but then even that should be universely compatable.
Pace
If you hold those views then forget 90 days! Ban any N reg aircraft with any FAA licenced crew from invading our airspace for one day or one hour as they are all a load of untrained idiots endangering our skies?
Statistically an FAA ATP is as safe as a JAA ATP and the rest is a load of mungo jumbo.
If anything is wrong its the system and its self protectionism and I am holier than thou attitude.
Aviation knows no boundaries an FAA pilot should be as good as a JAA pilot if anyone can point out a statistic showing otherwise then its easy then ban all FAA airliners from European Airspace if not then we should all be accepted and forget this self protectionism and arrogance because thats all its about.
The same goes for aircraft certification and licencing, medical requirements the lot. Its all about huge costs for the boys and jobs for the boys not backed up by any statistics showing safety issues between the two.
And there will be some regulator paid for a job he needs to justify running around trying to ban this or that to fill his unproductive week with something to do other than creating work for himself and loading an industry with extra costs it can ill afford to take.
The only thing that could be morally justified between the two is a requirement for FAA pilots to take Air Law exams to comply with diffrerences in Europe but then even that should be universely compatable.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 17th Sep 2008 at 23:38.
Unfortunatly Kengineer, whenever FAA vs JAA gets mentioned it usually degenerates into a willy waving contest! It's a funny thing really but this arrogant attitude only seems to prevail in the UK, I've never witnessed it anywhere else in Europe or further afield.
I would never dream of coming on here and telling somebody that the licence they worked hard to earn is inferior, what breath taking arrogance. If any of you can prove that the FAA system is unsafe for operating worldwide then let's either see the evidence or finally put this one to bed.
I wonder if Doctors or Lawyers behave the same way, critisising each others qualifications or which university they studied at etc...
To answer the question, yes it is possible to find work in the UK using a professional FAA certificate, not easy but still possible.
It would still be worthwhile you checking the medical standards with the CAA again as I'm pretty sure things are changing for the better.
Good luck.
I would never dream of coming on here and telling somebody that the licence they worked hard to earn is inferior, what breath taking arrogance. If any of you can prove that the FAA system is unsafe for operating worldwide then let's either see the evidence or finally put this one to bed.
I wonder if Doctors or Lawyers behave the same way, critisising each others qualifications or which university they studied at etc...
To answer the question, yes it is possible to find work in the UK using a professional FAA certificate, not easy but still possible.
It would still be worthwhile you checking the medical standards with the CAA again as I'm pretty sure things are changing for the better.
Good luck.
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>I would never dream of coming on here and telling somebody that the licence they worked hard to earn is inferior, what breath taking arrogance. If any of you can prove that the FAA system is unsafe for operating worldwide then let's either see the evidence or finally put this one to bed.<
YoungSkyWalker
There was a study which I read and the conclusion was that there was NO evidence to show that JAA ATPS had a better safety record than FAA ATPS.
They acknowledged a difference in training but came to the conclusion that although there was a difference in training they both lead to the same standard at the end albeit by different routes.
But then look at whats required to convert an FAA to a JAA The FAA ATP is treated as if he/she knows nothing and has to almost start from ground zero.
You are either safe to be there or your not! the numbers painted on the side of the aircraft are irrelevant! So it can only be about jobs for the boys and pure arrogance.
Van pilot
>It is also very hard for small AOC ops to compete against the FAA rules which tend to be less limiting. I feel if its based in europe for more than 30days it needs to have a JAA crew on board.<
Why 30 days ?are they safe up to 30 days then a danger after? Ban all FAA or non JAA aircraft from European skies if you can show statistics which say your safer with your JAA ATP than the FAA guy. Less limiting to me means less expensive and we have far to many expensive Beaurocrats and rule makers in Europe who need to be paid for. Their big brother state approach and the results of their Beaurocrats and regulators have to be paid for too by an industry bent at the knees.
Pace
YoungSkyWalker
There was a study which I read and the conclusion was that there was NO evidence to show that JAA ATPS had a better safety record than FAA ATPS.
They acknowledged a difference in training but came to the conclusion that although there was a difference in training they both lead to the same standard at the end albeit by different routes.
But then look at whats required to convert an FAA to a JAA The FAA ATP is treated as if he/she knows nothing and has to almost start from ground zero.
You are either safe to be there or your not! the numbers painted on the side of the aircraft are irrelevant! So it can only be about jobs for the boys and pure arrogance.
Van pilot
>It is also very hard for small AOC ops to compete against the FAA rules which tend to be less limiting. I feel if its based in europe for more than 30days it needs to have a JAA crew on board.<
Why 30 days ?are they safe up to 30 days then a danger after? Ban all FAA or non JAA aircraft from European skies if you can show statistics which say your safer with your JAA ATP than the FAA guy. Less limiting to me means less expensive and we have far to many expensive Beaurocrats and rule makers in Europe who need to be paid for. Their big brother state approach and the results of their Beaurocrats and regulators have to be paid for too by an industry bent at the knees.
Pace
Last edited by Pace; 18th Sep 2008 at 10:14.
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mmmm
"Pace"
My point is that we need a level field to play on, and 30 days would allow someone who wants to fly from the usa and have a few weeks holiday in a N reg jet to do so. " But not steal work from the rest of us.
As for the FAA v JAA. I've only one point on that......you don't get guy's with 250 hrs flying a large jet in the states.
As for skills........come on its not that hard is it, we just tell everyone that so it makes our job sound more interesting
My point is that we need a level field to play on, and 30 days would allow someone who wants to fly from the usa and have a few weeks holiday in a N reg jet to do so. " But not steal work from the rest of us.
As for the FAA v JAA. I've only one point on that......you don't get guy's with 250 hrs flying a large jet in the states.
As for skills........come on its not that hard is it, we just tell everyone that so it makes our job sound more interesting
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*THREAD DRIFT ALERT*
As the holder of several licences (there, that's the willy waving done with) I feel qualified to comment.
My FAA licence was far easier to obtain being based upon a conversion from my (then) UK one so subconsciously, and I know this shouldn't be the case, it feels inferior. I just don't value it as much as my other licences because it didn't cost me as much financially or in any other way to obtain and I've only used it in anger a couple of times. That's my psychobabble theory anyway. Maybe that's the way some operators/pilots feel too?
When I first researched obtaining a licence I was naturally attracted by the cheap(er) training in the US but knew that if I were to be taken seriously by UK operators I would have to convert it anyway so what was the point? Rightly or wrongly 'they' looked down their noses at an FAA ticket. I knew that from the beginning so didn't go that route. Had I done so I could hardly now complain about not being eligible for work on 'G' registered aircraft could I? We could draw parallels with many countries in the world, JAA-land isn't an anomaly. Is it right? Perhaps not but read on MacDuff.
When I was studying for my UK licence I too thought it was a load of over-complicated, there-for-the-sake-of-it bull**** but once I'd passed.....ahhh, that was different. It sorts the sheep from the goats, see? Keeps the numbers down and all that.
Which in a purely selfish way is a good thing. We're always moaning about lack of work, imagine how it would be if your average school drop-out could get a licence? Oh, hang on, I did
But, if the JAA standards were lowered we'd ALL be whinging and bitching because the work would be spread even more thinly. It's bad enough with the likes of Michael O'Leary cheapening our profession (and some of our own colleagues doing the same by paying to fly or whatever) so surely anything that edges toward retaining a degree of exclusivity is a good thing?
In summary, do I really believe the FAA licence to be inferior? No. Am I glad it's seen that way? Yes, it makes me more employable and justifies in my little head the fortune I spent on my career. If you'd asked me this question seventeen years ago when I was getting started though my response might have been different.
Regards
Flinty (in a selfish and contentious mood today)
Edited to quote
Australia and New Zealand neither (probably other countries too but I'm confining myself to places of which I have first hand knowledge here) so why is this? It's well documented that a licence is easier/cheaper to obtain in those countries which means there are more pilots ergo the airlines can be more demanding and people have to work their way up through the piston-turboprop-jet route.
This would suggest that you can have either the FAA system whereby you compete for scraps with hordes of others as you claw your way up or the JAA system where numbers are kept low BUT there's always the chance of a Boeingbus upon qualification.
Which do we want?
As the holder of several licences (there, that's the willy waving done with) I feel qualified to comment.
My FAA licence was far easier to obtain being based upon a conversion from my (then) UK one so subconsciously, and I know this shouldn't be the case, it feels inferior. I just don't value it as much as my other licences because it didn't cost me as much financially or in any other way to obtain and I've only used it in anger a couple of times. That's my psychobabble theory anyway. Maybe that's the way some operators/pilots feel too?
When I first researched obtaining a licence I was naturally attracted by the cheap(er) training in the US but knew that if I were to be taken seriously by UK operators I would have to convert it anyway so what was the point? Rightly or wrongly 'they' looked down their noses at an FAA ticket. I knew that from the beginning so didn't go that route. Had I done so I could hardly now complain about not being eligible for work on 'G' registered aircraft could I? We could draw parallels with many countries in the world, JAA-land isn't an anomaly. Is it right? Perhaps not but read on MacDuff.
When I was studying for my UK licence I too thought it was a load of over-complicated, there-for-the-sake-of-it bull**** but once I'd passed.....ahhh, that was different. It sorts the sheep from the goats, see? Keeps the numbers down and all that.
Which in a purely selfish way is a good thing. We're always moaning about lack of work, imagine how it would be if your average school drop-out could get a licence? Oh, hang on, I did
But, if the JAA standards were lowered we'd ALL be whinging and bitching because the work would be spread even more thinly. It's bad enough with the likes of Michael O'Leary cheapening our profession (and some of our own colleagues doing the same by paying to fly or whatever) so surely anything that edges toward retaining a degree of exclusivity is a good thing? In summary, do I really believe the FAA licence to be inferior? No. Am I glad it's seen that way? Yes, it makes me more employable and justifies in my little head the fortune I spent on my career. If you'd asked me this question seventeen years ago when I was getting started though my response might have been different.
Regards
Flinty (in a selfish and contentious mood today)
Edited to quote
Originally Posted by Vanpilot
As for the FAA v JAA. I've only one point on that......you don't get guy's with 250 hrs flying a large jet in the states.
This would suggest that you can have either the FAA system whereby you compete for scraps with hordes of others as you claw your way up or the JAA system where numbers are kept low BUT there's always the chance of a Boeingbus upon qualification.
Which do we want?
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Flinty in my opinion has hit the nail squarely on the head.
My original point, and I do apologize if it was taken in the wrong context, was that what's the point in spending all that money and learning all that largely useless information, if you could just go to the US and get a FAA ticket for the price of a good holiday come back to the UK and fly here??
Its not a level playing field and it never will be until there is a standard ICAO ATPL. Until then.................I'm afraid there will always be an us and them.
Its not in my opinion about who makes the better pilot. The aeroplane has no idea who's flying it and I have also seen terrible pilots on both sides of the fence.
Pace I'm sorry but you are taking the high ground on a completely different issue and for the wrong reasons, at least with me.
My original point, and I do apologize if it was taken in the wrong context, was that what's the point in spending all that money and learning all that largely useless information, if you could just go to the US and get a FAA ticket for the price of a good holiday come back to the UK and fly here??
Its not a level playing field and it never will be until there is a standard ICAO ATPL. Until then.................I'm afraid there will always be an us and them.
Its not in my opinion about who makes the better pilot. The aeroplane has no idea who's flying it and I have also seen terrible pilots on both sides of the fence.
Pace I'm sorry but you are taking the high ground on a completely different issue and for the wrong reasons, at least with me.
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Luckily the EU allows N-reg aircraft to be operated here and luckily the FAA makes it very easy to convert our JAA license. This means that there are more aircraft in Europe and since you have to be an EU citizen to work in the EU it means more employment for us. If one would make it harder to fly a N-reg in the EU, a lot of them, could even be the majority of them, will not be replaced by EU registered aircraft. Having a N-reg is cheaper for the owner and allows more of them to own their own aircraft. For some there are significant tax advantages in owning an N-reg.
The current situation is good for employment, good for the owners, good for the economy.
Just to be clear I am against offering free cabottage to N-reg or for that matter all
non EU reg.
And to get back on topic, yes there are loads of N-reg, M-reg and VP-reg aircraft in the EU. All of them operated privately, some as a one man band some by management companies.
The current situation is good for employment, good for the owners, good for the economy.
Just to be clear I am against offering free cabottage to N-reg or for that matter all
non EU reg.
And to get back on topic, yes there are loads of N-reg, M-reg and VP-reg aircraft in the EU. All of them operated privately, some as a one man band some by management companies.