small jet down in London
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RIP to all who lost their lives today.
And a big 'thumbs down' to those local residents coming out with dumb 'accident waiting to happen' type comments. Biggin has been an airfield for many a year, and has a proud place in history. It is a sad fact that occasionally aircraft come down, some with loss of life, but thankfully much more rarely these days than ever before.
I remember only too well being at OASC on the day that the Invader went down. As a group we stopped, thought, considered and more .. but still signed on the dotted line.
If the local council approved planning for new homes on the flight path then these unfeeling idiots should take their grievances to the council, rather than blaming it on the airport or its users
And a big 'thumbs down' to those local residents coming out with dumb 'accident waiting to happen' type comments. Biggin has been an airfield for many a year, and has a proud place in history. It is a sad fact that occasionally aircraft come down, some with loss of life, but thankfully much more rarely these days than ever before.
I remember only too well being at OASC on the day that the Invader went down. As a group we stopped, thought, considered and more .. but still signed on the dotted line.
If the local council approved planning for new homes on the flight path then these unfeeling idiots should take their grievances to the council, rather than blaming it on the airport or its users
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The reporter on ITV News has just commented that locals could see the look of horror on the passengers' faces. Come on, that's just pathetic sensationalist journalism. Disgraceful
RIP to all involved
RIP to all involved
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Are the more modern rear engined exec jets any different?
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Modern design like the Lear 40/45 and quite a few have 2 sets of control wires going through top and bottom of the fuselage to provide for a severe case of obstruction. If it helps in the special case needs to be experienced.
But if there is a fund to step in to support the families left behind please state a point of contact.
Mit Hals- und Beinbruch
Pittspilot
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Modern design like the Lear 40/45 and quite a few have 2 sets of control wires going through top and bottom of the fuselage to provide for a severe case of obstruction. If it helps in the special case needs to be experienced.
But if there is a fund to step in to support the families left behind please state a point of contact.
Mit Hals- und Beinbruch
Pittspilot
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should be brought to account for the sad unneccessary fatalities of experienced pilots whom had they not needed to avoid the obstacles and clipped the buildings on their low emergency approach may possibly have landed safely before the treshold. Such a tragic waste of life
To me, with description like that from a pilot, and with a full fuel load, the result is always likely to be fatal - whether you hit houses or fields.
RIP.
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Although I agree with many posts about the poor quality of reporting and dubious choice of witness statements, I was slightly heartened when early reports seemed to emphasise that it was a small plane, rather than sensationalise it by calling it a "passenger jet".
Sky were calling it a Cessna which conjures up a very small craft in the mind of Joe public.
A sad day.
Creaser
Sky were calling it a Cessna which conjures up a very small craft in the mind of Joe public.
A sad day.
Creaser
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Retired resident - "I've been watching the planes for years, you can set your clock by them" 
There are no scheduled flights from Biggin! So no you can't!
So called aviation expert - "This aircraft is over 30 years old, it's to be assumed that this has something to do with it"
Residents association rep - "As the years have gone on, the planes have got lower and lower"
I suppose they think that it's bound to happen when the normal approach path begins to drop below the level of the houses!
It makes me mad enough that 99.9% of people are plain stupid, not to mention that a proportion of these people are experts (!?) or hold a certain authoritative / influential position in a community, and then there are the prats that host this bulls**t and broadcast it all over the world.
My thoughts go out to the families and friends of those perished in this tragedy.
There are no scheduled flights from Biggin! So no you can't!So called aviation expert - "This aircraft is over 30 years old, it's to be assumed that this has something to do with it"
Residents association rep - "As the years have gone on, the planes have got lower and lower"
I suppose they think that it's bound to happen when the normal approach path begins to drop below the level of the houses!
It makes me mad enough that 99.9% of people are plain stupid, not to mention that a proportion of these people are experts (!?) or hold a certain authoritative / influential position in a community, and then there are the prats that host this bulls**t and broadcast it all over the world.
My thoughts go out to the families and friends of those perished in this tragedy.
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Cessna Crash
I've just arrived home and my mother told an aircraft has crashed, I've seen it was a Citation, any ideas of what happened? I've seen on the CFMU ATD at 13:35Z and at 13:36Z already crashed.
My condolonces to the families of both the pilots and pax.
My condolonces to the families of both the pilots and pax.
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From The Scotsman http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/late...jet.3929009.jp
the Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai.../sotrib131.xml
and Autosport http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66246
the Telegraph http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/mai.../sotrib131.xml
and Autosport http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/66246
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VP Registration
If the aircraft was VP registered I would like to know who's AOC he was operating under. Bermuda CAA can not issue an AOC to an operator outside of Bermuda. A Bermuda registered aircraft can operate on another states issued AOC under some circumstances.
Life's too short for ironing
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CardinalSteve
If you would really like to know, why not contact the registered owner directly? I'm sure they'd be willing to share that info with you right now...
Have followed this today, from afar. Very sad news for all involved.
If you would really like to know, why not contact the registered owner directly? I'm sure they'd be willing to share that info with you right now...
Have followed this today, from afar. Very sad news for all involved.
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Just before 5am UK time today LBC Radio(1) in London had the presenter talking about the crash and he was very supportive of the late pilot and his efforts to avoid the school etc. The presenter claimed to be a former pilot (PPL?) and spoke about the training for the right place to land if the only option is to crash somewhere.
Anyway just a FYI. The news of the incident made its way to Finland and was on the main news sites quite quickly too.
(1) Just in case anyone ask's I listen to the very early morning talk station here.
Anyway just a FYI. The news of the incident made its way to Finland and was on the main news sites quite quickly too.
(1) Just in case anyone ask's I listen to the very early morning talk station here.
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Cardinalsteve.. I think your posting is somewhat irrelevant. However, be very assured that large numbers VP-B registered aircraft, both airliners and exec jets operate in and out of UK airfields daily.
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Place & Time
Once again we see emotional postings asking legitimate posters to shut up out of respect etc.
Surely it goes without saying that everyone is saddened at any tragedy & equally obviously those who know the victims will feel especially upset, but most of those who log on here do so to find out what has happened or at least what is known & to learn from whatever info is available.
One way of avoiding this conflict would be to have either an RIP or condolences thread for those who wish to post such feelings there thus separating, "upsetting" posts from those likely to be upset.
Ask and ye shall receive.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...32#post4017332
Duck
Surely it goes without saying that everyone is saddened at any tragedy & equally obviously those who know the victims will feel especially upset, but most of those who log on here do so to find out what has happened or at least what is known & to learn from whatever info is available.
One way of avoiding this conflict would be to have either an RIP or condolences thread for those who wish to post such feelings there thus separating, "upsetting" posts from those likely to be upset.
Ask and ye shall receive.
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...32#post4017332
Duck
Last edited by Duck Rogers; 1st Apr 2008 at 11:50.
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Would this aircraft have an FDR and / or CVR onboard? If it were a private aircraft then there would probably be no requirement. However if it were a commercial charter then I would have thought there would have been some requirement dependent on the country of registration.
The AAIB can get a lot of information from the engines and aircraft at the crash site but it would ony tell them the situation of the engines and aircraft at the point of impact. An FDR and CVR would give much more information of what happened leading up to the accident.
The aircraft suffered severe engine vibration. Normally if this were on one engine only there would be no problem to shut it down and continue for a single engine approach and landing. However the BMI 737 accident at Kegworth showed that engine vibrations aren't that simple to diagnose (as to which engine was at fault). The pilot would have had little time after takeoff to diagnose the fault and may well have had insufficient thinking time to analyse his problem.
The AAIB can get a lot of information from the engines and aircraft at the crash site but it would ony tell them the situation of the engines and aircraft at the point of impact. An FDR and CVR would give much more information of what happened leading up to the accident.
The aircraft suffered severe engine vibration. Normally if this were on one engine only there would be no problem to shut it down and continue for a single engine approach and landing. However the BMI 737 accident at Kegworth showed that engine vibrations aren't that simple to diagnose (as to which engine was at fault). The pilot would have had little time after takeoff to diagnose the fault and may well have had insufficient thinking time to analyse his problem.
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hmmm
I too have followed this since hearing early afternoon yesterday.
Just out of interest, there was a Citiation circling Brands hatch yesterday for about 15 minutes. It was touring cars, and with it being a motorsport related event the probability is the it may have been the same aircraft.
Can anyone confirm if this is the same aircraft (Flight plans) as my knowledge of this isn't too great.
I'm just interested to know, as the aircraft didn't sound quite right to the ear (Lived under a flightpath all my life)
I may be jumping the gun here, but it seems a bit of a coincidence.
Thanks guys.
Just out of interest, there was a Citiation circling Brands hatch yesterday for about 15 minutes. It was touring cars, and with it being a motorsport related event the probability is the it may have been the same aircraft.
Can anyone confirm if this is the same aircraft (Flight plans) as my knowledge of this isn't too great.
I'm just interested to know, as the aircraft didn't sound quite right to the ear (Lived under a flightpath all my life)
I may be jumping the gun here, but it seems a bit of a coincidence.
Thanks guys.
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Now lets all stop speculating and wait for the AAIB to do their work.
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with folk on here speculating as to what may have happened. Indeed, such speculation could even be helpful. Look at the LHR 777 thread for example - there were many pilots, engineers, scientists with detailed knowledge of the airframe and fuel composition contributing useful speculative knowledge as to what may have happened. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the investigating authorities didn't also have a look at that thread!
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brushing through the scottish papers today, so a lovely picture of a nice shinny new Cessna Citation Excel, talking about yesterdays incident. I guess a Cessna is a Cessna according to some people.
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Quote from a London Rag
Horrified residents who saw a private jet plough into their street have revealed they saw the passengers panicking inside moments before it plunged to the ground.
One father who had to pluck his daughters to safety from outside his home described looking directly into the eyes of the pilot and a woman.
Yeh I think not
Horrified residents who saw a private jet plough into their street have revealed they saw the passengers panicking inside moments before it plunged to the ground.
One father who had to pluck his daughters to safety from outside his home described looking directly into the eyes of the pilot and a woman.
Yeh I think not
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Right. My question is getting lost. Can anyone who knows about this aircraft type answer it? As follows:
Would this aircraft have an FDR and / or CVR onboard? If it were a private aircraft then there would probably be no requirement. However if it were a commercial charter then I would have thought there would have been some requirement dependent on the country of registration.
The AAIB can get a lot of information from the engines and aircraft at the crash site but it would ony tell them the situation of the engines and aircraft at the point of impact. An FDR and CVR would give much more information of what happened leading up to the accident.
The aircraft suffered severe engine vibration. Normally if this were on one engine only there would be no problem to shut it down and continue for a single engine approach and landing. However the BMI 737 accident at Kegworth showed that engine vibrations aren't that simple to diagnose (as to which engine was at fault). The pilot would have had little time after takeoff to diagnose the fault and may well have had insufficient thinking time to analyse his problem.
Would this aircraft have an FDR and / or CVR onboard? If it were a private aircraft then there would probably be no requirement. However if it were a commercial charter then I would have thought there would have been some requirement dependent on the country of registration.
The AAIB can get a lot of information from the engines and aircraft at the crash site but it would ony tell them the situation of the engines and aircraft at the point of impact. An FDR and CVR would give much more information of what happened leading up to the accident.
The aircraft suffered severe engine vibration. Normally if this were on one engine only there would be no problem to shut it down and continue for a single engine approach and landing. However the BMI 737 accident at Kegworth showed that engine vibrations aren't that simple to diagnose (as to which engine was at fault). The pilot would have had little time after takeoff to diagnose the fault and may well have had insufficient thinking time to analyse his problem.