small jet down in London
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#167
Which was there first does count. I live within a mile of Caister heliport. I cab hear the helicopters early in the morning when they are running their engines before flight. I would not dream of making a complaint about that. I was fully aware that the heliport was there when I bought my property. IMHO, the only ones with a right to complain about airport noise are those who were there before said airport was built. The rest wil ljust have to lump it.
Which was there first does count. I live within a mile of Caister heliport. I cab hear the helicopters early in the morning when they are running their engines before flight. I would not dream of making a complaint about that. I was fully aware that the heliport was there when I bought my property. IMHO, the only ones with a right to complain about airport noise are those who were there before said airport was built. The rest wil ljust have to lump it.
Last edited by Super VC-10; 1st Apr 2008 at 14:18. Reason: typos
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AAIB
AAIB Press Release - first confirmation I've seen on the registration,
VP-BGE, and stating wreckage to be moved on Wednesday.
Flightaware Thread accident information on recent Citation accident in Oklahoma N113SH. There is some information regarding potential bird strike/s bringing down this aircraft, to date, there has never been a Citation brought down by bird strikes.
Aviation Safety Network 52 completed accident reports worldwide, of known aircraft brought down by bird strikes.
List includes 14 biz jets, 5 Falcon 20, 3 Lear 24, 2 Sabreliners, 1 Lear 23,
1 Lear 25, 1 Lear 35, and I Hawker.
VP-BGE, and stating wreckage to be moved on Wednesday.
Flightaware Thread accident information on recent Citation accident in Oklahoma N113SH. There is some information regarding potential bird strike/s bringing down this aircraft, to date, there has never been a Citation brought down by bird strikes.
Aviation Safety Network 52 completed accident reports worldwide, of known aircraft brought down by bird strikes.
List includes 14 biz jets, 5 Falcon 20, 3 Lear 24, 2 Sabreliners, 1 Lear 23,
1 Lear 25, 1 Lear 35, and I Hawker.
Last edited by robbreid; 1st Apr 2008 at 17:23.
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By the way, I don't think that the timing is "inappropriate" - whether it has an bearing on the investigation is another matter.
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Good to hear that but I work in Biggin and it is not 60 km away from London, apart from that great to hear the part about Biggin Hill and new builds around, I wish that BBC or Sky play it on their news...........
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Firstly, My deepest sympathies to all affected by this terrible tragedy.
Secondly, I'm glad to see that Flight Global and Mr. Learmount have brought a sense of professionalism and decorum to the reporting on this accident.
For some reason I doubt Sky will bother to quote FG though, too much like professional journalism...
Secondly, I'm glad to see that Flight Global and Mr. Learmount have brought a sense of professionalism and decorum to the reporting on this accident.
For some reason I doubt Sky will bother to quote FG though, too much like professional journalism...
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Sad End To VP-BGE
Photo taken from my house just after the crash. The plane past about 400 yards to the left of my location at a very low level. Which would be left hand from Biggin 21.
RIP
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My thoughts are with all those affected by this accident.
I agree with MWR. As I haven't seen photos of the scene, I wonder about the condition of the wreckage and the investigators' possibilities to find out the cause? Specifically the condition of the engines and the instrument panel, where presumably good clues (possible bird remains, gps memory etc) are most likely to be found. Hopefully the investigation can contribute to making aviation even safer in the future.
I agree with MWR. As I haven't seen photos of the scene, I wonder about the condition of the wreckage and the investigators' possibilities to find out the cause? Specifically the condition of the engines and the instrument panel, where presumably good clues (possible bird remains, gps memory etc) are most likely to be found. Hopefully the investigation can contribute to making aviation even safer in the future.
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I believe the owner has several businesses including part or all of a racing team! The pilot of the aircraft was a close personal friend and I can tell you he would not have operated the aircraft if all was not above board and the owner would not have asked him too. Mike Chapman was one the most professional pilots I have ever known and also one of the nicest and most honourable guys it has ever been my privilege to meet. I count myself fortunate to have known him and called him my friend. These are not just words nor am I alone in my opinion; I have never met anyone who would have a bad word to say about the man. A gentleman, a great aviator and all round good guy, I only hope we can all leave this life so well respected and loved by those who knew us as Mike has!
I have to say I have been appalled by some of the reporting on this incident and disappointed at some of the remarks on this forum. Show a little respect for his friends and family and don’t turn this into an opportunity to get the airport near houses argument to the fore. Accidents happen; very rarely does an aircraft crash into houses near or far from airfields.
Mike will be missed by all who knew him as will the other victims of this accident.
I have to say I have been appalled by some of the reporting on this incident and disappointed at some of the remarks on this forum. Show a little respect for his friends and family and don’t turn this into an opportunity to get the airport near houses argument to the fore. Accidents happen; very rarely does an aircraft crash into houses near or far from airfields.
Mike will be missed by all who knew him as will the other victims of this accident.
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Am I wrong in thinking that Boeing & RR are providing resource to the AAIB? If they are, are you suggesting that there are people here who know even more than the manufacturers?
My original point was that speculation/hunches as to the cause of an accident should always be very welcome on a forum such as this because there are many pilots/engineers/scientists with very varied and broad experience here who can make a genuine contribution - look at the 777 thread as an example. There is no way that the AAIB can solicit that breadth of voluntary contribution from its limited field of experts and linear communication with them. That is why open forums like PPRUNE should always be encouraged to speculate as to the cause of accidents.
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With reference to post #180, there is every reason to accept that this aircraft was being flown quite legally. At least, in this country, innocence is presumed until guilt is proved. I think the aspersions would be better left for the authorities. A professional pilot appropriately licenced and rated may accept payment to fly an aircraft for a private flight. I have seen nothing to suggest that this was other than that, nor even that there was any payment involved. Posts insinuating otherwise are very inflammatory.
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V12
Sorry you can' take a hint! I suggest you wait for the report and perhaps you and others will think twice before posting such inflammatory speculation on a public forum in relation to such a tragic accident in future!
Sorry you can' take a hint! I suggest you wait for the report and perhaps you and others will think twice before posting such inflammatory speculation on a public forum in relation to such a tragic accident in future!
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I knew one of the passengers on this flight, David Leslie. He was a really decent bloke, one of the nicest motorsport professionals you could meet.
This is clearly a terrible tragedy with life changing consequences for the families of all those who succumbed. The outpouring of tributes over the last few days is an indicator for how badly these guys will be missed.
I'm new to the forum and have read this thread from the beginning. As I'm not an expert, I can't hope to speculate what happened, but there are some reasonable possible causes here, including the baggage flap issue and uncontained engine failure. Hopefully the investigators will be able to get to the bottom of what happened help give some sense of closure to the families.
Just to clear up something. Does anyone know if the plane was owned by Richard Lloyd or chartered by him for this flight ? If the latter, who owned the plane ?
This is clearly a terrible tragedy with life changing consequences for the families of all those who succumbed. The outpouring of tributes over the last few days is an indicator for how badly these guys will be missed.
I'm new to the forum and have read this thread from the beginning. As I'm not an expert, I can't hope to speculate what happened, but there are some reasonable possible causes here, including the baggage flap issue and uncontained engine failure. Hopefully the investigators will be able to get to the bottom of what happened help give some sense of closure to the families.
Just to clear up something. Does anyone know if the plane was owned by Richard Lloyd or chartered by him for this flight ? If the latter, who owned the plane ?
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VP-BGE was owned, at least until the latter part of last year by Pan Maritime Ltd, part of the Dovey Group of companies (Cardiff?), reputedly sold though around October 2007. Over its life, the aircraft had resided in both the USA and Brazil
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Cylinders
The cylinders that were talked about were probably the oxygen and nitrogen bottles that are fitted to Citations. The oxygen bottle can go up with a very big bang an blow a load of debris a big distance.
Last edited by suzukiraider; 1st May 2008 at 20:46.
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richatom,
Are you seriously saying either that professional investigators don't know where to get expert input, or don't bother to do so?
Do you believe that they waste time trawling through pages of low brow 'discussion' in hope of finding an answer?
Seriously, I'd love to know your answers to those two questions...
Are you seriously saying either that professional investigators don't know where to get expert input, or don't bother to do so?
Do you believe that they waste time trawling through pages of low brow 'discussion' in hope of finding an answer?
Seriously, I'd love to know your answers to those two questions...