Netjets To Get Additional Falcon 7Xs - Now Up to 33 Aircraft
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hey joe , if you knew the guy behind this screen name, you will be ashamed.. LoL
He is quoting as a reference, the marketing of Netjets UK, not his opinion.
The rest of your post, I cannot comment on since I'm bound with an agreement as long as I 'm working for the company.
He is quoting as a reference, the marketing of Netjets UK, not his opinion.
The rest of your post, I cannot comment on since I'm bound with an agreement as long as I 'm working for the company.
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NET salary can differ in other countries without double-tax-agreement. The Danish and the French could sing this song. For some nations 25% plus 5% is better than what gets deducted at home. If you didnt pay taxes so far with the old contract: good for you, bad for others . . (it used to be the Number 1 on the NTA Pilots wishlist, to go onshore).
Best deal in the industry? Well, the overall package is allright if you include the gateways and the stable roster and the flying-fun. Salary is better elsewhere, but as long as they find people (The best? I doubt it a lot) they have no need to react.
For me personal I couldnt sit two weeks in Moskau or one of the other fun places in the snow or in the sand and fly everyother day, the more in money (off-shore, untaxed, insurance?, pension?) can not make up with this.
And the few real good deals seem to be hard to get, if you are not willing to spend two weeks away from home, or the aircraft is based far away from home . . .
Best deal in the industry? Well, the overall package is allright if you include the gateways and the stable roster and the flying-fun. Salary is better elsewhere, but as long as they find people (The best? I doubt it a lot) they have no need to react.
For me personal I couldnt sit two weeks in Moskau or one of the other fun places in the snow or in the sand and fly everyother day, the more in money (off-shore, untaxed, insurance?, pension?) can not make up with this.
And the few real good deals seem to be hard to get, if you are not willing to spend two weeks away from home, or the aircraft is based far away from home . . .
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4years back, everyone was hired with individual terms (everyone negociates his own deal). Then came the DM supremacy (not the Bourne one). Company was fast growing already and hiring significantly. They implemented a salary grid lowering the salary of most of the guys under the previous terms. Then comes this new fanstastic deal where, again, we lose money and overall situation awareness. Divide to conquer with country per country differences. It works. They are smart.
For the one happy with the new deal, ask yourself if you are honestly comfortable with the taxes, the sickness policy, seniority, bounding (6years for a GV), and salary...
For the one happy with the new deal, ask yourself if you are honestly comfortable with the taxes, the sickness policy, seniority, bounding (6years for a GV), and salary...
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Biz
I dont understand how you can say you have received a pay decrease with the implementation of the 'new deal'.
If, you were not paying any taxes on the old deal, then by receiving a pay rise and now paying taxes, then yes, you will net less now.
But, not paying taxes is illegal and you should consider those days of non-tax paying as a bonus and hope they never catch up with you.
Lets be honest, you cannot expect to go from not paying taxes to being brought on-shore, and paying tax somewhere to be the same.
Now, dont get me wrong, I am not disputing the legalities of being employed by a UK company, living in Spain and paying income tax in Portugal and scoial sercurity/ National Insurance in the UK- that for me is a whole different stroy.
I do think it unfair to just say it was a 'pay decrease'.
I dont understand how you can say you have received a pay decrease with the implementation of the 'new deal'.
If, you were not paying any taxes on the old deal, then by receiving a pay rise and now paying taxes, then yes, you will net less now.
But, not paying taxes is illegal and you should consider those days of non-tax paying as a bonus and hope they never catch up with you.
Lets be honest, you cannot expect to go from not paying taxes to being brought on-shore, and paying tax somewhere to be the same.
Now, dont get me wrong, I am not disputing the legalities of being employed by a UK company, living in Spain and paying income tax in Portugal and scoial sercurity/ National Insurance in the UK- that for me is a whole different stroy.
I do think it unfair to just say it was a 'pay decrease'.
south coast, I am sure our friend biz paid tax like all good people but he was in the favourable position that he paid tax in France where you only pay around 5% to 10% income tax as a pilot because you make your money outside the country.
If we all had a UK contract we could reclaim part of the taxes that we pay because we do not fly in UK-airspace every day that we are on duty. That would be a fair deal. This flat-tax in Portugal seems to be a bit dodge, to be honest, because still some countries do NOT recognize this tax. Well, all this has been written already in this forum, I don't want to repeat it all again.
If we all had a UK contract we could reclaim part of the taxes that we pay because we do not fly in UK-airspace every day that we are on duty. That would be a fair deal. This flat-tax in Portugal seems to be a bit dodge, to be honest, because still some countries do NOT recognize this tax. Well, all this has been written already in this forum, I don't want to repeat it all again.
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south coast. If he's French then under the previous contract he would have been on an excellent tax deal so therefore legal and way better off than now.
Joe. He was being sarcastic. In fact when I read his post I could imagine the wicked grin on his face. He'd agree with your comments wholeheartedly.
Damn! EMS beat me to the 'submit' button.
Joe. He was being sarcastic. In fact when I read his post I could imagine the wicked grin on his face. He'd agree with your comments wholeheartedly.
Damn! EMS beat me to the 'submit' button.
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south coast, I am sure our friend biz paid tax like all good people but he was in the favourable position that he paid tax in France where you only pay around 5% to 10% income tax as a pilot because you make your money outside the country.
So anyone can add up (with some limitations), the expenses related to the course of his employment ( car, toll, dry cleaning etc.) If you are employed as a pilot or declared yourself as a pilot, there is a scheme , negotiated year to year by the french pilot unions, that authorized some fix amount of deductions depending where you have been flying to . These sums are directly deducted from your 'net' income. Therefore at the end of the year if you flew a lot internationaly, you will find yourself with a significant reduction. This is not the best part, if you are married with kids, have a maid and bought a residence for rent under specifics schemes, all of this is deductible. For example you pay the maid 12180 Euro a year, you can deduct from the taxes to pay 4927 euros (that was for this year); therefore if you had to pay 10000 euros of taxes you end up pying 5073 only...
So it is a misunderstanding that you do not pay taxes, they are just spread differently.
With the new contract, this is a new deal, and discussions are in progress in order to play with a better set of cards. The only thing that I can say is that with the 25% at source; we cannot benefit with any of the previous scheme, because we are not employed by NTA but by a staff company and paying ourselves to be self employed on top, would impact our salaries drastically (since we are already paying pension, social security etc.) notwithstanding a pure income tax discussion.
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I have always paid taxes. I want to rest in peace...(
).
Indeed, from one country to another, the outcome of the contract is different. Good for Austrian, average for most, bad for french and impossible to accept if you are danish. They divided us to ease their work. Well done.
Flint, How come you could see the grin on my face? You must know me very well. I have to be careful...
Enjoy
biz
).Indeed, from one country to another, the outcome of the contract is different. Good for Austrian, average for most, bad for french and impossible to accept if you are danish. They divided us to ease their work. Well done.
Flint, How come you could see the grin on my face? You must know me very well. I have to be careful...
Enjoy
biz
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This is the rates of pay stolen from another forum:
2 years 5200...
4 years 5400...
8 years 6200 ...
pocket money !
It is just not enough, there are better paid jobs out there.
2 years 5200...
4 years 5400...
8 years 6200 ...
pocket money !
It is just not enough, there are better paid jobs out there.
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NJE offers a far better package than many airlines or charter operators out there (much better than the Charter operator I currently work for). Pay is competitive, schedules are reasonably fixed, route variety is ever-changing, excellent domicile policy for pilots, airplanes are advanced (even the Bravo is nicer than my Lear) and well-kept and job security is better than a lot of operators out there. NJE is not perfect - but neither is any airline or similar operation. Perfection is elusive in the aviation business - DON'T EXPECT TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY IN THIS BUSINESS....
With all of that said, there are many jobs out there much worse than flying a Falcon 7X around the world for NJE (after flying the Bravo or XLS for a few years - that's fine with me if I ever get hired). No way I will fly for Ryanair or EasyJet to the same destinations over and over again with a mix of earlies and lates. No way I will ever move to Dubai and feel like a poor person for the rest of my life relative to everyone else there. I want to live in Europe and not in Asia, Africa or the Middle East.
NJE offers a viable alternative for many people - and now people will have the ability to fly even nicer airplanes. Instead, people will always look for the negatives and never acknowledge some glaring positives. This website is full of bitchy people - I have come to expect that now.
With all of that said, there are many jobs out there much worse than flying a Falcon 7X around the world for NJE (after flying the Bravo or XLS for a few years - that's fine with me if I ever get hired). No way I will fly for Ryanair or EasyJet to the same destinations over and over again with a mix of earlies and lates. No way I will ever move to Dubai and feel like a poor person for the rest of my life relative to everyone else there. I want to live in Europe and not in Asia, Africa or the Middle East.
NJE offers a viable alternative for many people - and now people will have the ability to fly even nicer airplanes. Instead, people will always look for the negatives and never acknowledge some glaring positives. This website is full of bitchy people - I have come to expect that now.
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Riker, shall I understand that you are not working for us ?
You are summarizing the point of GA charter vs Scheduled Airlines perfectly, as a general point of view. Whre I do no meet you , is that one's should not expect to make a lot of money; what is a lot of money ?
For me good money is 10k€ a month net. This is my personal welfare, others would be happy with 5k€ other would not consider living with 20k€.
Money is not everything and surely lifestyle and airplane a definite factor; the outstanding thing at Netjets is that you have the same money should you decide after being 6 years in the company to fly the C550B after having spent the last years long-hauling and reverse Jet-Lag.
As you said nothing is perfect, but it is not a reason not to try to improve it...
You are summarizing the point of GA charter vs Scheduled Airlines perfectly, as a general point of view. Whre I do no meet you , is that one's should not expect to make a lot of money; what is a lot of money ?
For me good money is 10k€ a month net. This is my personal welfare, others would be happy with 5k€ other would not consider living with 20k€.
Money is not everything and surely lifestyle and airplane a definite factor; the outstanding thing at Netjets is that you have the same money should you decide after being 6 years in the company to fly the C550B after having spent the last years long-hauling and reverse Jet-Lag.
As you said nothing is perfect, but it is not a reason not to try to improve it...
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Riker: (even the Bravo is nicer than my Lear)
Your Lear is going to feel extremely offended, unless She is a 55...
Besides the pun, when is this new contract supossedly going to be implemented?, and if gross first year captain is,up to now 95,000, can anybody tell what it'll be afterwards?
Your Lear is going to feel extremely offended, unless She is a 55...
Besides the pun, when is this new contract supossedly going to be implemented?, and if gross first year captain is,up to now 95,000, can anybody tell what it'll be afterwards?
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I absolutely agree about trying to improve the situation at NJE. Why shouldn't you? The point is that pilots are always bitching about wages, QOL, etc. and that will never change. No organization is perfect. With that said, NJE offers a lot of great aspects that are clearly superior to those at most low-cost carriers and major charter operators. I am a big fan of NJE - I am thinking about applying myself. I would love to fly a Falcon 7X someday...
I think if you are looking for a stable operation with pretty good compensation, very nice equipment, fixed schedules, unlimited route variety and a great mix of domiciles, NJE should be a primary consideration. If you want to just focus on compensation, perhaps a field outside of aviation should be considered. That was my original point (although I did not articulate it well).
I think if you are looking for a stable operation with pretty good compensation, very nice equipment, fixed schedules, unlimited route variety and a great mix of domiciles, NJE should be a primary consideration. If you want to just focus on compensation, perhaps a field outside of aviation should be considered. That was my original point (although I did not articulate it well).
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Funny to see that the ones saying good things about NJE are the ones not working for NJE...
Come on riker, if it is that much better than your lear...apply. They cannot really afford missing somebody with your experience unless you are a character or you are unable to fly row data.
Come on riker, if it is that much better than your lear...apply. They cannot really afford missing somebody with your experience unless you are a character or you are unable to fly row data.
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Funny to see that the ones saying bad things about NJE are the ones not working anymore for NJE...
As mentioned before, only the same people are replying here, mostly crewmembers which are not working anymore or not yet for NTA. Always the same reply negative which allready left and are now on a personal crusade to prevent others from joining. Spreading out interna, every argument 50 % truth or less is good enough as long as it fulfills its purpose.
CL 300: You need 10 k net to be happy and work 170 days a year this leaves me headshaking. Get a live dude or fly your a... off and spend your money in the hospital or in one of the countries which pay you this amount of money.
If you want to fly nice jets into a heavy variety of locations with nice crewmembers during normal working hours. Work in a hassle free environment in respect of admin and training and so on and get paid reasonable for working 170 days a year (and yes, it is hard work) and live where you wish then dont let the others take you down.
There are quite a few in here which left and came back. Others never fit, because they like the airline style more or cannot cope with the flying challenges. So check out your needs and your individual tax situation and then decide.
Over 800 crewmembers with the company but only the same make politics in here.
Move on crusaders.
As mentioned before, only the same people are replying here, mostly crewmembers which are not working anymore or not yet for NTA. Always the same reply negative which allready left and are now on a personal crusade to prevent others from joining. Spreading out interna, every argument 50 % truth or less is good enough as long as it fulfills its purpose.
CL 300: You need 10 k net to be happy and work 170 days a year this leaves me headshaking. Get a live dude or fly your a... off and spend your money in the hospital or in one of the countries which pay you this amount of money.
If you want to fly nice jets into a heavy variety of locations with nice crewmembers during normal working hours. Work in a hassle free environment in respect of admin and training and so on and get paid reasonable for working 170 days a year (and yes, it is hard work) and live where you wish then dont let the others take you down.
There are quite a few in here which left and came back. Others never fit, because they like the airline style more or cannot cope with the flying challenges. So check out your needs and your individual tax situation and then decide.
Over 800 crewmembers with the company but only the same make politics in here.
Move on crusaders.
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How do you know all the detractors are ex-employees? You don't.
How do we know you even work for the company? Unless you are prepared to prove it I think we should treat your own remarks with the same degree of scepticism that you want us to apply to any anti-NJE comments. Only fair, no?
If you do work for them then you know very well that there are plenty of people within the ranks who have lots of bad things to say about it. Somewhat hypocritical of you to announce on here then that less than 50% of what the naysayers write is true. Is that a figure based on exhaustive research or one chosen because it sounds good? I suspect the latter but hey, I'm just the suspicious type.
You are right about one thing and that is that it seems to be the same people who are anti-NJE. But wait a second, isn't it also the same people who deny anything is wrong with the company? Correct me if I'm wrong but don't a number of those seem to have disappeared from this forum? Would it be a coincidence that they began to drift away when the new 'best contract in the industry' was unveiled by your wonderful management? Sometimes in life it is what isn't said that speaks volumes and the pro-NJE'ers who no longer leap to the company's defense are saying a lot by not being here.
Let us not forget that PPRuNe is not the only forum available to NJE crew. There are French, Dutch, Portuguese and English forae. Are you telling me those were set up because all is sweetness and light in NJE? We both know the answer to that one. If it were all as sunny as some would have us believe there would not be a campaign among the crew to organise a union. Sure, the company are playing dirty and will delay the inevitable but it's just that, inevitable. Why do the crew feel they need the protection of a union? It's the best contract in the business, no?
By belittling CL300's figure of 10,000 euro a month you are really displaying your lack of knowledge of the real bizjet world. People make that sort of money in the civilised world without having to 'fly their arse off'. Maybe you're a little jealous because you're not one of them? CL300 is more than capable of handling the flying at NJE, I'd wager he's done it for longer than you, but even he is showing signs of unhappiness. He's just too polite to say so for now.
How do we know you even work for the company? Unless you are prepared to prove it I think we should treat your own remarks with the same degree of scepticism that you want us to apply to any anti-NJE comments. Only fair, no?
If you do work for them then you know very well that there are plenty of people within the ranks who have lots of bad things to say about it. Somewhat hypocritical of you to announce on here then that less than 50% of what the naysayers write is true. Is that a figure based on exhaustive research or one chosen because it sounds good? I suspect the latter but hey, I'm just the suspicious type.
You are right about one thing and that is that it seems to be the same people who are anti-NJE. But wait a second, isn't it also the same people who deny anything is wrong with the company? Correct me if I'm wrong but don't a number of those seem to have disappeared from this forum? Would it be a coincidence that they began to drift away when the new 'best contract in the industry' was unveiled by your wonderful management? Sometimes in life it is what isn't said that speaks volumes and the pro-NJE'ers who no longer leap to the company's defense are saying a lot by not being here.
Let us not forget that PPRuNe is not the only forum available to NJE crew. There are French, Dutch, Portuguese and English forae. Are you telling me those were set up because all is sweetness and light in NJE? We both know the answer to that one. If it were all as sunny as some would have us believe there would not be a campaign among the crew to organise a union. Sure, the company are playing dirty and will delay the inevitable but it's just that, inevitable. Why do the crew feel they need the protection of a union? It's the best contract in the business, no?
By belittling CL300's figure of 10,000 euro a month you are really displaying your lack of knowledge of the real bizjet world. People make that sort of money in the civilised world without having to 'fly their arse off'. Maybe you're a little jealous because you're not one of them? CL300 is more than capable of handling the flying at NJE, I'd wager he's done it for longer than you, but even he is showing signs of unhappiness. He's just too polite to say so for now.
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Bizantin,
I have a few friends at NJE (so I am familiar with the situation) and I will be applying. Until now I have had family issues that have made changing jobs difficult. But that's my personal business. I would like to see things get better at NJE too - there should always be progressive improvement in wages/compensation as the company continues to do better. I am not a communist - I agree that all employees should benefit from growth and increased profits. I started this thread because I was excited about the potential opportunities to fly 7Xs and other aircraft at NJE one day. Growth of the 7X fleet at NJE can only be a good thing for the pilot group - right?
With your condescending language and tone, you sound unhappy or dissatisfied. That's too bad. Sure, NJE is far from perfect and it could always get better in a myriad of different ways - no organization is perfect and the money could always be better. Perhaps you should go work for BA, EasyJet or Ryanair and move on to supposedly greener pastures if you are unhappy.
It is always easy to focus on the negatives instead of celebrating or highlight some of the positives (especially relative to other choices out in the market). I started this thread because I wanted to highlight what I thought was a positive for existing and future pilots at NJE. Sorry that you disagree.
I have a few friends at NJE (so I am familiar with the situation) and I will be applying. Until now I have had family issues that have made changing jobs difficult. But that's my personal business. I would like to see things get better at NJE too - there should always be progressive improvement in wages/compensation as the company continues to do better. I am not a communist - I agree that all employees should benefit from growth and increased profits. I started this thread because I was excited about the potential opportunities to fly 7Xs and other aircraft at NJE one day. Growth of the 7X fleet at NJE can only be a good thing for the pilot group - right?
With your condescending language and tone, you sound unhappy or dissatisfied. That's too bad. Sure, NJE is far from perfect and it could always get better in a myriad of different ways - no organization is perfect and the money could always be better. Perhaps you should go work for BA, EasyJet or Ryanair and move on to supposedly greener pastures if you are unhappy.
It is always easy to focus on the negatives instead of celebrating or highlight some of the positives (especially relative to other choices out in the market). I started this thread because I wanted to highlight what I thought was a positive for existing and future pilots at NJE. Sorry that you disagree.