Vickers Viscount - performance issues.
We landed on runway 27 there even though it was only about 900m in those days (before it was re-configured with ILS etc); bounced slighly thus lengthening an already short LDA; captain said 'ooh you cow' and slammed it firmly on the ground.
I remember as we did a 180 at the end of the runway, I was able to look straight down into the water at the seals gazing up at us.
A couple of weeks later, (I was there on detachment for 4 weeks) I returned from lunch to see a piece of paper on the controller's desk with '160/18' written on it. Asked the Manager what this was for; he replied that the Viscount captain had been up to watch the wind dials for a while and this was the wind speed/direction I was to pass to enable the departing aircraft to take off.
More than that I'm not saying.
I understand the captain's subsequent verbal exchange with ATC wasn't exactly to full & proper RT standards 
The appendices to the report have the transcript!
Icelandair. They only had one Viscount, which ran from Reykjavik twice a week to Glasgow and Copenhagen, returning next day (so four Renfrew landings a week) and once a week day return to Heathrow. The latter took four hours each way, quite a run for a Viscount. They had lost a second Viscount somewhat earlier, and had to hang on to a DC-6B until their first 727 came.
Regarding Leeds and fog, a couple of years after the event above I did a Viscount day return from London. Outwards was OK, and I chanced upon a colleague on the same flight, but coming back to the airport in the evening the fog had come down and the inbound didn't make it in. Colleague there too, now with his client, and eventually told they were organising a coach to Heathrow. This seemed a bit tedious so the three of us cancelled our reservations, went out to the cab rank, and took one from there ... direct to Heathrow T1 car park. Poor driver, likely from Bradford if not Lahore, was rather lost, we had to give him cash for fuel on the way, and these were the times before the M25 round to Heathrow; fortunately we could give directions. Gave him a decent tip, but last saw him drawing (very) hesitantly away from the T1 set-down. Wonder how long it took him to get back.
Regarding Leeds and fog, a couple of years after the event above I did a Viscount day return from London. Outwards was OK, and I chanced upon a colleague on the same flight, but coming back to the airport in the evening the fog had come down and the inbound didn't make it in. Colleague there too, now with his client, and eventually told they were organising a coach to Heathrow. This seemed a bit tedious so the three of us cancelled our reservations, went out to the cab rank, and took one from there ... direct to Heathrow T1 car park. Poor driver, likely from Bradford if not Lahore, was rather lost, we had to give him cash for fuel on the way, and these were the times before the M25 round to Heathrow; fortunately we could give directions. Gave him a decent tip, but last saw him drawing (very) hesitantly away from the T1 set-down. Wonder how long it took him to get back.
That tailed off by the late seventies, whether as a result of BA changes or the beginning of the end for the Channel Isles as a mainstream holiday destination I do not know. Both Dan Air with 748s and later leased Viscounts and Air UK picked up the slack later.
I lived in Guiseley, somewhat further out along 28's extended centre line than Yeadon, and was very much aware of Viscounts etc using 28 in strong westerlies along with the 748, F-27 and occasional piston engined machines such as BAF Carvairs etc . Noisiest I think was an Aer Turas DC-7. These and later their C-54 EI-ARS were usually carrying racehorses for Doncaster, Wetherby etc.
Wasn't there to see it myself but there was one occasion when a Britannia 737 positioning in from Luton landed on 10 in a strong easterly.
BKS certainly flew IT package Holiday Charters from LBA for Airways Holidays on the Viscount right back to 1966 on the first 700 series.
Charter flights were also operated from LBA by BKS on behalf of Wallace Arnold to Rotterdam (for the bulbs) Ostend and Basle, being the gateways to pick up the European Scenic Coach tours flying on their Prop Jet Avro 748, and the Viscounts would be used later.
The first two 112 seat Britannia 102's arrived in 1964 and would fly IT charters for Airways and Skytours Holidays.
Both aircraft had actually been bought from BOAC by Airways Holidays to protect their #1 stake in the North East from Skytours and their new Britannia Airways, however they didn't have a license to operate the whispering giants and so BKS took them on their own AOC to fly Airways' IT Charters at the weekends to Tarbes, Barcelona, Lisbon, Valencia, Ibiza, Palma, Rome, Dubrovnik, Rimini, Trieste (for Venice) and Mons from NCL and MME, but not from LBA.
1965 saw the completion of a new 5400 feet runway at Leeds/Bradford allowing larger aircraft to be considered by BKS for future operations, and on April 22 1966 a United Airlines Viscount 745 arrived at BKS Southend for overhaul and respray before entering service with B.K.S.
Registered G-ATTA, this 63 seat Viscount was test flown on June 7, and two days later it entered service with B.K.S. Air Transport on services from Leeds.
3 more Viscount 700's arrived to join BKS in 1967.
1968 saw the introduction of the 71 seat Viscount 806 at Leeds/Bradford.
1968 also marked the end of the operation of the HS 748 aircraft.
Holiday airports flown from LBA on the BKS Viscounts would have been Jersey (of course) Rotterdam Ostend Basle Lourdes/Tarbes, with longer routes to Rimini Palma Perpignan Barcelona and possibly Malaga and Valencia.
The new airport at Alicante had opened in 1968 and was taking some charter flights, but until the inauguration of the new charter terminal (1972) many tourists who had been arriving from London and the UK landed in Valencia and from there they arrived in Benidorm by coaches; a 3 to 4 hours long drive on the old narrow and windy coast road.
These flights would have been full (63 pax on the 700 series, and 71 on the larger 806 series) and adult passengers would have had one hold luggage; the allowance was only 15 kgs back then.
I have no idea if all of those longer routes could be made without a fuel stop.
1969 saw the Britannia's replaced by the two new 117 seat Trident jets purchased from Hawker Siddeley.
The second Trident's first flight was a charter flight for Airways Holidays from Newcastle to Palma.
The Tridents would not fly holiday charters from LBA, but flew these from NCL and MME and also from LHR for Swans Tours, but now fitted with 123 seats.
Some notes from Jim Shield who had joined BKS in 1959 and had been Station Manager at Newcastle for BKS in the mid Sixties, continued as Station Manager for British Airways until he retired in 1999.
Charter flights were also operated from LBA by BKS on behalf of Wallace Arnold to Rotterdam (for the bulbs) Ostend and Basle, being the gateways to pick up the European Scenic Coach tours flying on their Prop Jet Avro 748, and the Viscounts would be used later.
The first two 112 seat Britannia 102's arrived in 1964 and would fly IT charters for Airways and Skytours Holidays.
Both aircraft had actually been bought from BOAC by Airways Holidays to protect their #1 stake in the North East from Skytours and their new Britannia Airways, however they didn't have a license to operate the whispering giants and so BKS took them on their own AOC to fly Airways' IT Charters at the weekends to Tarbes, Barcelona, Lisbon, Valencia, Ibiza, Palma, Rome, Dubrovnik, Rimini, Trieste (for Venice) and Mons from NCL and MME, but not from LBA.
1965 saw the completion of a new 5400 feet runway at Leeds/Bradford allowing larger aircraft to be considered by BKS for future operations, and on April 22 1966 a United Airlines Viscount 745 arrived at BKS Southend for overhaul and respray before entering service with B.K.S.
Registered G-ATTA, this 63 seat Viscount was test flown on June 7, and two days later it entered service with B.K.S. Air Transport on services from Leeds.
3 more Viscount 700's arrived to join BKS in 1967.
1968 saw the introduction of the 71 seat Viscount 806 at Leeds/Bradford.
1968 also marked the end of the operation of the HS 748 aircraft.
Holiday airports flown from LBA on the BKS Viscounts would have been Jersey (of course) Rotterdam Ostend Basle Lourdes/Tarbes, with longer routes to Rimini Palma Perpignan Barcelona and possibly Malaga and Valencia.
The new airport at Alicante had opened in 1968 and was taking some charter flights, but until the inauguration of the new charter terminal (1972) many tourists who had been arriving from London and the UK landed in Valencia and from there they arrived in Benidorm by coaches; a 3 to 4 hours long drive on the old narrow and windy coast road.
These flights would have been full (63 pax on the 700 series, and 71 on the larger 806 series) and adult passengers would have had one hold luggage; the allowance was only 15 kgs back then.
I have no idea if all of those longer routes could be made without a fuel stop.
1969 saw the Britannia's replaced by the two new 117 seat Trident jets purchased from Hawker Siddeley.
The second Trident's first flight was a charter flight for Airways Holidays from Newcastle to Palma.
The Tridents would not fly holiday charters from LBA, but flew these from NCL and MME and also from LHR for Swans Tours, but now fitted with 123 seats.
Some notes from Jim Shield who had joined BKS in 1959 and had been Station Manager at Newcastle for BKS in the mid Sixties, continued as Station Manager for British Airways until he retired in 1999.
I believe that by the mid-1960s BKS divided their types by North-east airport, certainly on the London runs, with Viscounts from Leeds, 748s from Teesside, and Britannias from Newcastle. The whole Teesside operation was rather abruptly given up around 1967 (there was a paper insert into their timetable saying so), and the 748s were then sold. The 748 was a good aircraft for coach-air holiday Its, as the 44/48 seats nicely matched a typical coach of the era, whereas 70-odd seats in a Viscount didn't.
Jersey/Guernsey were particularly weekday popular destinations for flight planners because their duration slotted in nicely to do a morning business return to Heathrow, then a mid-morning departure to the Channel Islands, and back in time for the later afternoon business demand again to Heathrow. If you didn't do them every day there would be Belfast or Dublin at similar times.
Jersey/Guernsey were particularly weekday popular destinations for flight planners because their duration slotted in nicely to do a morning business return to Heathrow, then a mid-morning departure to the Channel Islands, and back in time for the later afternoon business demand again to Heathrow. If you didn't do them every day there would be Belfast or Dublin at similar times.
rog747,
Apologies for the thread drift but I always understood the BKS Trident 1Es were originally part of a 5 unit order from Channel Airways, who eventually took just two, one of which, G-AVYE eventually wound up operating from BHX to GLA and CDG as well as some weekend IT work and was the only 1E flown by BEA.
Apologies for the thread drift but I always understood the BKS Trident 1Es were originally part of a 5 unit order from Channel Airways, who eventually took just two, one of which, G-AVYE eventually wound up operating from BHX to GLA and CDG as well as some weekend IT work and was the only 1E flown by BEA.
rog747,
Apologies for the thread drift but I always understood the BKS Trident 1Es were originally part of a 5 unit order from Channel Airways, who eventually took just two, one of which, G-AVYE eventually wound up operating from BHX to GLA and CDG as well as some weekend IT work and was the only 1E flown by BEA.
Apologies for the thread drift but I always understood the BKS Trident 1Es were originally part of a 5 unit order from Channel Airways, who eventually took just two, one of which, G-AVYE eventually wound up operating from BHX to GLA and CDG as well as some weekend IT work and was the only 1E flown by BEA.
rog747,
Apologies for the thread drift but I always understood the BKS Trident 1Es were originally part of a 5 unit order from Channel Airways, who eventually took just two, one of which, G-AVYE eventually wound up operating from BHX to GLA and CDG as well as some weekend IT work and was the only 1E flown by BEA.
Apologies for the thread drift but I always understood the BKS Trident 1Es were originally part of a 5 unit order from Channel Airways, who eventually took just two, one of which, G-AVYE eventually wound up operating from BHX to GLA and CDG as well as some weekend IT work and was the only 1E flown by BEA.
Returned from Gibraltar to Heathrow on 19 Feb 76 in GAWFA
I believe that by the mid-1960s BKS divided their types by North-east airport, certainly on the London runs, with Viscounts from Leeds, 748s from Teesside, and Britannias from Newcastle. The whole Teesside operation was rather abruptly given up around 1967 (there was a paper insert into their timetable saying so), and the 748s were then sold. The 748 was a good aircraft for coach-air holiday Its, as the 44/48 seats nicely matched a typical coach of the era, whereas 70-odd seats in a Viscount didn't.
Jersey/Guernsey were particularly weekday popular destinations for flight planners because their duration slotted in nicely to do a morning business return to Heathrow, then a mid-morning departure to the Channel Islands, and back in time for the later afternoon business demand again to Heathrow. If you didn't do them every day there would be Belfast or Dublin at similar times.
Jersey/Guernsey were particularly weekday popular destinations for flight planners because their duration slotted in nicely to do a morning business return to Heathrow, then a mid-morning departure to the Channel Islands, and back in time for the later afternoon business demand again to Heathrow. If you didn't do them every day there would be Belfast or Dublin at similar times.
They did indeed - but the OP's reference to a significant proportion of rear-facing seats would appear to rule out a T3.
The One-E-140 History
rog747,
Apologies for the thread drift but I always understood the BKS Trident 1Es were originally part of a 5 unit order from Channel Airways, who eventually took just two, one of which, G-AVYE eventually wound up operating from BHX to GLA and CDG as well as some weekend IT work and was the only 1E flown by BEA.
Apologies for the thread drift but I always understood the BKS Trident 1Es were originally part of a 5 unit order from Channel Airways, who eventually took just two, one of which, G-AVYE eventually wound up operating from BHX to GLA and CDG as well as some weekend IT work and was the only 1E flown by BEA.
These were to have the 139 seats we all know about, so would gain the extra midships exit hatch (Door 2R) over the 1E-110's which did not have the extra exit.
I have just read only recently that G-AVYA was already built, ordered for Kuwait Airways but was NTU.
Hence this odd one out was actually a 1E -110 and so did not ever get the extra door modification.
Subsequently when Channel only wanted 2 Tridents delivered in 1968 (YB/YC) this odd one (YA) eventually went to Air Ceylon, and the other 2 (YC/YD) went to BKS a year later in 1969.
Channel now struggling for its life, sold G-AVYB to BEA in late 1971, and this Trident went to join the former BKS pair now flying as Northeast in yellow livery.
G-AVYE was sold to BEA in Feb 1972 and painted in BEA livery, but eventually joined Northeast Airlines with small Northeast titles added in Nov 1973, and British Airways titles replaced BEA.
YE was operated by Northeast until 1 Apr 1976.
YD, now painted in the new BA Negus livery, was written off at Bilbao (RTO) 09/1975
Both G-AVYC and YD had already been built and painted ready for Channel Airways in 1968.
Here is a photo of YC almost completed, and one of YD modified to 1E-140 standard with the additional midships emergency exit door.
The Channel Airways contract was cancelled, so the pair were completed for BKS Air Transport in 1969.
Photos taken 24/09/1968 acknowledged to Ken Haynes.
TRIDENT 1E-140, G-AVYC Hatfield
TRIDENT 1E-140, G-AVYD Hatfield
The 1E-140 originally ordered by Channel used the same seats as their 1-11s, made by Flight Equipment, at 31-inch pitch. So still roomier in that regard than many airlines today.
They had four exits on each side, instead of the standard 1E's four to port and three to starboard.
The midships galley was omitted.
The seat design was a forerunner of the modern type in that it only had lateral frames, and lacked the reinforcing horizontal lower-rear bar.
So people could put their feet under the seat in front instead of just their bags.
Britannia later adopted the same seats for their 737s and were able to squeeze in an additional two rows as a result from 117 seats to 130.
Last edited by rog747; 1st May 2023 at 07:34.
The Trident 3B's were allocated from G-AWZA and so on...
All BEA and BA Tridents has some sections of rearward facing seats, including the One-E's with Northeast.
So all three types at BEA had at least some rear facing seats. The One and Two had more than the Three.
Last edited by rog747; 1st May 2023 at 07:36.
Dragging us back (yet again) to Viscounts, that Channel Airways livery on the Trident originated with a fleet of 11, no less, Viscount 800s that Channel bought from Continental Airlines in the USA. Their gold and black livery was retained almost unaltered by Channel, including keeping Continental's encircled eagle emblem, which they took for their own, and even the one notable change, the Channel Airways fuselage title, was done in Continental's distinctive font. They formed Channel's mainstream fleet at Southend for the rest of the airline's existence.
Indeed, back OT to Viscounts lol - Channel Airways leased some of their -V700's to BKS in 1967.
BKS went on to have 6 x V806's from BEA from 1968.
And of course BKS Engineering was for many years done at their own Hangar at Southend.
Interesting you noted that the Avro 748 seats of 44-48 was a 'Coach load' - never thought of that.
Although when the bigger Viscounts took over some folk would have booked 'stay put' holidays,
and some may have chosen the Rail option to continue on from Ostend or Basel to say the Tyrol, or Venice by Continental Rail.
BKS went on to have 6 x V806's from BEA from 1968.
And of course BKS Engineering was for many years done at their own Hangar at Southend.
Interesting you noted that the Avro 748 seats of 44-48 was a 'Coach load' - never thought of that.
Although when the bigger Viscounts took over some folk would have booked 'stay put' holidays,
and some may have chosen the Rail option to continue on from Ostend or Basel to say the Tyrol, or Venice by Continental Rail.