Vickers Viscount - performance issues.
Thread Starter
Vickers Viscount - performance issues.
I've heard it said that in the old Northeast and British Airways 806 days, the Viscounts flying from Leeds Bradford to Jersey and Guernsey would often delay their departure until the early evening as the short runway at LBA plus relatively high takeoff weights precluded midday and afternoon departures during the summer. I don't imagine performance was an issue when these fine aeroplanes were on Heathrow and Ireland duties - probably fewer stuffed suitcases and not quite as many passengers. But, how did the 806s and 802s manage during similar summer weather when departing from the Channel Islands? For comparison, the Jersey runway in the 60s and 70s wasn't much longer than LBA's (a problem for the BAC 1-11 too) and Guernsey's runway was less than 5000 ft long. Were British Midland and Dan Air Viscount 810s affected too ? They did have more powerful engines.
Thankyou.
Thankyou.
BAF purchased many if not all the BA V.806 fleet and I recall they operated out of Coventry in the heat (Well occasionally!) of high summer to JER without any issues. I Don't recall the runway length at CVT in the mid 1980s but I don't imagine it would have been much longer than LBA.
British Midland were of course operating the V.810 at the same time.
British Midland were of course operating the V.810 at the same time.
Thread Starter
The Coventry runway was physically a little shorter than that of LBA but maybe had more useable length if there were no obstacles at either end. LBA is nearly 700 ft above sea level whereas Guernsey and Jersey are pretty much on the deck, as it were. That might have been significant; not exactly hot and high a la Nairobi but along those lines.
Long time since I flew out of LBA, but I seem to recall that there was rising ground off the end of the north westerly runway. The performance limit may have been terrain clearance rather than runway length.
I can’t supply a definitive answer but, word was (in the 60s) that Viscounts were weight restricted on “hot” summer days on take off from Guernsey. This may also have been true for Jersey also; although probably less so due to the extra 400 ft of runway & lesser obstacles.
Last edited by kcockayne; 22nd Apr 2023 at 22:25. Reason: Extra information
Thread Starter
Thankyou all. The climb out off RW32 at LBA does have The Chevin in its path but there is no such obstacle off RW14 (or 15 as it used to be). RW15 could be made available for departures for performance reasons, even with a tailwind. But if the aircraft was still too heavy, then...buggered!
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Sort of relevant. In the F-27 days, using the -100 series, there was an engine-out escape manoeuvre off 33. Hang a left, between the cemetery and the tarn, thereby avoiding the Chevin. I don't think it applied to the -200 series, but it's a long time ago.
(AirUK F-27, based LBA '80-'88)
(AirUK F-27, based LBA '80-'88)
Thread Starter
I guess there are, or were, those occasions where you would just have to wait for the air to cool or a stiff headwind to spring up. Or wait a lot longer for a runway extension!
Mooncrest : You keep taking me back to flying the NE Viscounts outa LBA in 1972-4 !
I don't recall any performance issues'
Only issues were that Skippers tended to hog the pole. The 5=sector day, LBA-LHR-LBA in the morning followed by afternoon LBA-GCI-JER-LBA was greeted with hope as, surely, one might get offered one leg out of five- ?
Luvley sunny day, no wind, cavok everywhere and I was rostered with the CP and, of course, a full blown TRE/IRE. Off we went to LHR and I thought, at the start of each sector, this one is surely mine (?). Nah. Not a sniff. rotters.
As a result, in my P1 days to follow, I ensured "leg for leg" and on a three leg day, P2 would get two. One leg-? Didn't even flip a coing; P2 got it.
Formative days.
I don't recall any performance issues'
Only issues were that Skippers tended to hog the pole. The 5=sector day, LBA-LHR-LBA in the morning followed by afternoon LBA-GCI-JER-LBA was greeted with hope as, surely, one might get offered one leg out of five- ?
Luvley sunny day, no wind, cavok everywhere and I was rostered with the CP and, of course, a full blown TRE/IRE. Off we went to LHR and I thought, at the start of each sector, this one is surely mine (?). Nah. Not a sniff. rotters.
As a result, in my P1 days to follow, I ensured "leg for leg" and on a three leg day, P2 would get two. One leg-? Didn't even flip a coing; P2 got it.
Formative days.
Thread Starter
Gordomac, I knew you would have something to contribute. Did you ever ask the captain if you could take a turn at actually flying the aeroplane or was that not the done thing for a newbie ?
I once had a conversation with an ex BEA Argosy and Merchantmen caption who told tales of flying the -100 series Argosies which didn't go too well, especially if leaving Turin, they had to circle while climbing before crossing the Alps, then the more powerful -222 version arrived which was a big improvement. Until BEA decided the Viscounts had a greater need for the more powerful engines so they did a swop and the Argosies went back to struggling again. Might have been just a pub story though.
I once had a conversation with an ex BEA Argosy and Merchantmen caption who told tales of flying the -100 series Argosies which didn't go too well, especially if leaving Turin, they had to circle while climbing before crossing the Alps, then the more powerful -222 version arrived which was a big improvement. Until BEA decided the Viscounts had a greater need for the more powerful engines so they did a swop and the Argosies went back to struggling again. Might have been just a pub story though.
Surely the Channel islamds were by virtue of theri location not as hot as inland lcations like Cov and LBA even if they are in the North (if youare from the Channel islands Cov is in the North) . Islands are usually windy most of time (except when they were foggy which i think was more of a problem with Ops into the Channel Islands.(judging from my fathers muterings about the places (BEA/BA Maintrol).
Re the Argosy's out of Turin how common were these circling departues back in the day? I flew Beijing to CDG on an ancienne AF 747-100 in the mid 1990s and that had to do an enormous circle returning back over the departure runway at several thousand feet to get over the mountains north of Beijing . Announced to the passengers by droll AF captain as nothing to be alarmed about but we need to be able to climb over ze wall . A memorable flight for that reason and because for business reasons I got to fly First as I had to be back in Uk next day and that was the only way. AF had caviar with ultra chilled proper vodka as a very generous 'amuse bouche' .
Re the Argosy's out of Turin how common were these circling departues back in the day? I flew Beijing to CDG on an ancienne AF 747-100 in the mid 1990s and that had to do an enormous circle returning back over the departure runway at several thousand feet to get over the mountains north of Beijing . Announced to the passengers by droll AF captain as nothing to be alarmed about but we need to be able to climb over ze wall . A memorable flight for that reason and because for business reasons I got to fly First as I had to be back in Uk next day and that was the only way. AF had caviar with ultra chilled proper vodka as a very generous 'amuse bouche' .
I saw many years of Viscount operations at LBA but have no recollection of problems caused by high temperatures.......high cross winds a different matter! The majority of high temperatures, caused by high pressure, would usually lead to light winds and therefore the use of 15 for departures
Thread Starter
I must confess I'm repeating hearsay in this thread. I don't actually remember the Northeast and BA Viscounts flying from LBA to the Channel Islands - for me, the Dan Air HS748s were the machines on this run which I guess was after BA bailed out. But any excuse to talk about Viscounts!
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That's spot on , I also remember sitting in my P4 classroom in Paisley and seeing the BM Argonauts circle the west end of the town until they had the height to head south !
I once had a conversation with an ex BEA Argosy and Merchantmen caption who told tales of flying the -100 series Argosies which didn't go too well, especially if leaving Turin, they had to circle while climbing before crossing the Alps, then the more powerful -222 version arrived which was a big improvement.
), southbound over the Med heading for Algeria, but was back high overhead on a reciprocal heading 15 minutes later having got the altitude to clear the coastal mountains on its way back to Switzerland.
I once had a conversation with an ex BEA Argosy and Merchantmen caption who told tales of flying the -100 series Argosies which didn't go too well, especially if leaving Turin, they had to circle while climbing before crossing the Alps, then the more powerful -222 version arrived which was a big improvement. Until BEA decided the Viscounts had a greater need for the more powerful engines so they did a swop and the Argosies went back to struggling again. Might have been just a pub story though.
I once had a conversation with an ex BEA Argosy and Merchantmen caption who told tales of flying the -100 series Argosies which didn't go too well, especially if leaving Turin, they had to circle while climbing before crossing the Alps, then the more powerful -222 version arrived which was a big improvement. Until BEA decided the Viscounts had a greater need for the more powerful engines so they did a swop and the Argosies went back to struggling again. Might have been just a pub story though.