JAT (Yugoslav Airlines) Boeing 707s
British Airtours used their 707s on very short sectors
What I remember for sure is that we lost a nosewheel on landing at DBV.
I think this was on the Conway-engined 707-436's.
I think the 154s have gone altogether from western Europe, a combination of cheap 737-300s, noise regs, and the 8.33KHz radio kit upgrade. I did see one active in Russia two years ago, it was a substitute for a 737. I was also on what must have been one of the last scheduled Tu154 operations into the UK, on Rossiya from St Petersburg to Gatwick - gosh, it was April 2008. How time passes. Here it is on arrival at Gatwick South terminal.
Thread Starter
I think the last year I saw a TU154 at LBA was 2005. BH Air have operated Airbuses almost exclusively at LBA since them. I did see them in later years at Manchester but not recently. Shame - serious old aeroplane!
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Thinking back to 1985, Leeds Bradford wasn't using SIDs so it was quite common for eastbound departures to be given direct routings by Manchester Control shortly after the minimum noise routing. This frequently resulted in the JAT 707 going direct to Ottringham (missing out UPTON) and flying over my then home about two miles east of LBA. The growly whine from those old PW engines was fabulous to hear.
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Came upon this thread looking for serials/registrations/model numbers of the JAT Boeing 707 fleet. Interesting mixed fleet of types/variants they had. I note a few links to Pakistan's PIA.
My first EVER flight in any aircraft was on a JAT Boeing 707 which operated 'scheduled charter flights' between Belgrade (LYBE) and Melbourne (YMML) in the early 1970s. The flight was in 1974 and I wangled 3 months off early primary school on a family trip to the 'old country', actually not long after their 'seven-ohs' entered service it seems. I have recollections during my teen aircraft-spotting years of the DC-10s regularly plying their way into YMML. I think Dad flew back to see his elderly parents in SLO during the later DC-10 days (sometime before the mid-1980s were done).
I recall stopovers in Singapore (WSSS) (mightily humid and oppressive at night) and Karachi (OPKC) (daytime heat with armed guards evident on the tarmac - what I now know to have been a shared military airfield) before arriving in Belgrade. It was quite a trip with Dad and 2 of his brothers, respective wives and 5 kids between 6-11 years of age in the troupe !
Have some nice decals from Lift Here! to build a 1/144 scale 707 in the classic JAT early scheme one of these day, hence the interest in variants and configurations.
My first EVER flight in any aircraft was on a JAT Boeing 707 which operated 'scheduled charter flights' between Belgrade (LYBE) and Melbourne (YMML) in the early 1970s. The flight was in 1974 and I wangled 3 months off early primary school on a family trip to the 'old country', actually not long after their 'seven-ohs' entered service it seems. I have recollections during my teen aircraft-spotting years of the DC-10s regularly plying their way into YMML. I think Dad flew back to see his elderly parents in SLO during the later DC-10 days (sometime before the mid-1980s were done).
I recall stopovers in Singapore (WSSS) (mightily humid and oppressive at night) and Karachi (OPKC) (daytime heat with armed guards evident on the tarmac - what I now know to have been a shared military airfield) before arriving in Belgrade. It was quite a trip with Dad and 2 of his brothers, respective wives and 5 kids between 6-11 years of age in the troupe !
Have some nice decals from Lift Here! to build a 1/144 scale 707 in the classic JAT early scheme one of these day, hence the interest in variants and configurations.
Yes ,before JAT got it's new DC-10's they first flew charters to Australia and the USA with the 707's.
The 707 was first used from1970 for JAT's intercontinental routes until the arrival of the DC10-30 in 1979 (747SP and 747-200 were also under consideration) when the 707 was switched to Euro-Atlantic routes and Yugotours charter flights for Air Yugoslavia.
JAT's first 707 examples were some early old ex Pan Am 707-321's which many airlines started to obtain from around 1970/71.
Dan Air, BMA, Lloyd, THY and Donaldson all got some of these too.
JAT then soon got 4 ex PIA 707C's from 1972 and 2 more from Northwest in 1974.
1970
- On May 19, the first Boeing 707-321, YU-AGA, which JAT rented from Pan-Am, flew to Belgrade Airport. remained in the fleet until July 25, 1974.
- On June 1, a B-707 aircraft introduced charter traffic to Australia. This year, flies on average three times a week, twice to Sydney and once to Melbourne, on the route Belgrade - Karachi - Singapore - Australia. Perth was also served.
- June 19, the first charter flight Belgrade - Toronto by B-707. During the year, JAT also opens charter traffic to the United States to SFO and JFK.
Transatlantic flights on the B-707 to the USA went via London or SNN Ireland, while flights to Australia in those years went via Ankara, Tehran, Karachi, India and Singapore.
JAT also leased from Pan Am, 707-321's N716PA/722PA/723PA and 724PA. One was reg'd YU-AGH.
1971
- December 11, the first flight to China on a B-707 aircraft arranged by Air Yugoslavia
1972
- On May 30, the first, then on December 5, the second B-707C aircraft leased by JAT for intercontinental traffic from PIA (YU-AGE and YU-AGG). Both aircraft were purchased in 1975.
YU-AGF and AGD were also added from PIA.
1974
- April another 2 B-707, which JAT bought from NWA (YU-AGI and YU-AGJ), landed on April 17.
1975
- April 1, JAT opens the first intercontinental line Belgrade - Karachi - Singapore - Sydney. Based on the agreement between the Government of Australia, as well as the agreement between JAT and "Qantas". The traffic was performed by B-707 twice a week.
1979
May 18, the new DC-10 flies to Australia once a week instead of B-707, which flew twice a week.
1987, October 31, the last commercial flight of a Boeing 707 on YU-AGI on the Belgrade-Zagreb-Brussels route.
707 v DC-10
- In November 1971, during a visit to the United States, President Tito visits the McDonnell Douglas aircraft factory in Long Beach and inspects the production and latest model of the DC-10 aircraft.
1972
- August 9, the American aircraft manufacturing company McDonnell Douglas organized a demonstration flight of its new DC-10 aircraft in Belgrade. In the cabin of this plane, at the "Belgrade" airport, a contract was signed for the purchase of six new DC-9 planes for JAT.
1977
- May 20, The Managing Authority of JAT made a decision to purchase a new type of wide-body aircraft for intercontinental traffic. The choice fell on the DC-10.
- On July 15, in Long Beach, California, a contract was signed for the purchase of the first DC-10-30 wide-body aircraft.
1978
- February 2, a contract is signed in New York for the purchase of another DC-10. The contract was signed on behalf of JAT by General Manager Dragoslav Radisavljevic.
- On April 2, Air Yugoslavia starts charter flights to Beijing. On September 15, the first test flight of JAT's first DC-10 aircraft - YU-AMA - was performed in Long Beach.
- On December 12, JAT's DC-10, YU-AMA few non-stop from Long Beach to Belgrade Airport. At the festive reception, it was named "Nikola Tesla".
On May 16, 1979, another DC-10 - 30 YU-AMB flew to the "Belgrade" airport, which was named "Edward Rusyan" at the airport reception.
During early 1987, it was decided to buy another DC-10 30 (YU-AMC), but that decision was withdrawn after the decision to buy the then new MD-11 (successor to the DC-10) was formally made. JAT definitely confirmed the decision to purchase MD-11, so in 1989 it gave up the purchase of another third DC-10-30 and began negotiations with McDonnell Douglas regarding the procurement of the MD-11 as a replacement for the DC-10.
The decision to purchase three MD-11s (YU-AME / F / G) was made on March 3, 1989. And in June 1990, JAT ordered a fourth copy, plus two more as an option.
Among the first companies to order this type of new aircraft was JAT, which ordered 4 with delivery in 1992. Although two had already been produced, these were never delivered due to UN sanctions against the FRY. 1 went to AA and the other to WO.
The 707 was first used from1970 for JAT's intercontinental routes until the arrival of the DC10-30 in 1979 (747SP and 747-200 were also under consideration) when the 707 was switched to Euro-Atlantic routes and Yugotours charter flights for Air Yugoslavia.
JAT's first 707 examples were some early old ex Pan Am 707-321's which many airlines started to obtain from around 1970/71.
Dan Air, BMA, Lloyd, THY and Donaldson all got some of these too.
JAT then soon got 4 ex PIA 707C's from 1972 and 2 more from Northwest in 1974.
1970
- On May 19, the first Boeing 707-321, YU-AGA, which JAT rented from Pan-Am, flew to Belgrade Airport. remained in the fleet until July 25, 1974.
- On June 1, a B-707 aircraft introduced charter traffic to Australia. This year, flies on average three times a week, twice to Sydney and once to Melbourne, on the route Belgrade - Karachi - Singapore - Australia. Perth was also served.
- June 19, the first charter flight Belgrade - Toronto by B-707. During the year, JAT also opens charter traffic to the United States to SFO and JFK.
Transatlantic flights on the B-707 to the USA went via London or SNN Ireland, while flights to Australia in those years went via Ankara, Tehran, Karachi, India and Singapore.
JAT also leased from Pan Am, 707-321's N716PA/722PA/723PA and 724PA. One was reg'd YU-AGH.
1971
- December 11, the first flight to China on a B-707 aircraft arranged by Air Yugoslavia
1972
- On May 30, the first, then on December 5, the second B-707C aircraft leased by JAT for intercontinental traffic from PIA (YU-AGE and YU-AGG). Both aircraft were purchased in 1975.
YU-AGF and AGD were also added from PIA.
1974
- April another 2 B-707, which JAT bought from NWA (YU-AGI and YU-AGJ), landed on April 17.
1975
- April 1, JAT opens the first intercontinental line Belgrade - Karachi - Singapore - Sydney. Based on the agreement between the Government of Australia, as well as the agreement between JAT and "Qantas". The traffic was performed by B-707 twice a week.
1979
May 18, the new DC-10 flies to Australia once a week instead of B-707, which flew twice a week.
1987, October 31, the last commercial flight of a Boeing 707 on YU-AGI on the Belgrade-Zagreb-Brussels route.
707 v DC-10
- In November 1971, during a visit to the United States, President Tito visits the McDonnell Douglas aircraft factory in Long Beach and inspects the production and latest model of the DC-10 aircraft.
1972
- August 9, the American aircraft manufacturing company McDonnell Douglas organized a demonstration flight of its new DC-10 aircraft in Belgrade. In the cabin of this plane, at the "Belgrade" airport, a contract was signed for the purchase of six new DC-9 planes for JAT.
1977
- May 20, The Managing Authority of JAT made a decision to purchase a new type of wide-body aircraft for intercontinental traffic. The choice fell on the DC-10.
- On July 15, in Long Beach, California, a contract was signed for the purchase of the first DC-10-30 wide-body aircraft.
1978
- February 2, a contract is signed in New York for the purchase of another DC-10. The contract was signed on behalf of JAT by General Manager Dragoslav Radisavljevic.
- On April 2, Air Yugoslavia starts charter flights to Beijing. On September 15, the first test flight of JAT's first DC-10 aircraft - YU-AMA - was performed in Long Beach.
- On December 12, JAT's DC-10, YU-AMA few non-stop from Long Beach to Belgrade Airport. At the festive reception, it was named "Nikola Tesla".
On May 16, 1979, another DC-10 - 30 YU-AMB flew to the "Belgrade" airport, which was named "Edward Rusyan" at the airport reception.
During early 1987, it was decided to buy another DC-10 30 (YU-AMC), but that decision was withdrawn after the decision to buy the then new MD-11 (successor to the DC-10) was formally made. JAT definitely confirmed the decision to purchase MD-11, so in 1989 it gave up the purchase of another third DC-10-30 and began negotiations with McDonnell Douglas regarding the procurement of the MD-11 as a replacement for the DC-10.
The decision to purchase three MD-11s (YU-AME / F / G) was made on March 3, 1989. And in June 1990, JAT ordered a fourth copy, plus two more as an option.
Among the first companies to order this type of new aircraft was JAT, which ordered 4 with delivery in 1992. Although two had already been produced, these were never delivered due to UN sanctions against the FRY. 1 went to AA and the other to WO.
Thread Starter
Does anybody know if the JAT DC-10 fleet ever turned up on the Yugotours or other I.T. flights ? I think it's doubtful - they are likely to have spent most of their time on long haul schedules - but all the other JAT aircraft did charter work. Actually, I'm not sure if the Caravelle did.
Does anybody know if the JAT DC-10 fleet ever turned up on the Yugotours or other I.T. flights ? I think it's doubtful - they are likely to have spent most of their time on long haul schedules - but all the other JAT aircraft did charter work. Actually, I'm not sure if the Caravelle did.
As for the Air Jugoslavia (IATA code JR) charters certainly I recall DC9, 727 and 707 operating those charters, I can't recall Caravelles being used, nor the DC10.
I reckon @rog747 is your man for that one!
Don't believe there were any planned DC-10 trips to Britain, not to say they would not do the odd substitute. They did do affinity-group charters to transatlantic points like Toronto (inevitably) or Chicago. Some summer seasons they leased in an extra aircraft from the likes of Sabena or Finnair. The DC-10s appeared fully based at Belgrade, unlike the 707s which got outstationed in the summer season to Dubrovnik, and were always standard first/economy configuration, whereas the older 707s were reseated to total charter arrangement.
Does anybody know if the JAT DC-10 fleet ever turned up on the Yugotours or other I.T. flights ? I think it's doubtful - they are likely to have spent most of their time on long haul schedules - but all the other JAT aircraft did charter work.
Actually, I'm not sure if the Caravelle ever did.
Actually, I'm not sure if the Caravelle ever did.
I can only add-
The JAT DC-10's did do charter flights, but not for UK Yugotours, unlike their 707's - The DC-10 did more long haul charters to USA/Canada/China and Australia.
The DC-10 came to LHR and LGW on a rare occasion.
In 1968 a sixth JAT Caravelle registered as YU-AHG was delivered.
JAT technicians made immediate mods increasing the number of passenger seats from 86 to 91 in order to meet a higher demand for more charter flights
In 1969 the seventh Caravelle (YU-AHK) arrives.
Tito’s Yugoslavia Opens to the World -
Yugoslavia by 1969 drops most of the Tourist Visa requirements and thus Tourism took off which saw Yugotours in the UK massively expand with chartering Inex Adria and Aviogenex who both expanded with new Jet fleets from 1969/1970 with Yugotours soon flying from 14 UK Airports.
In 1970, Air Yugoslavia, JR/JU/YUGAIR, was formed as an independent unit of JAT with independent financing and management. Alongside with organizing charters in Europe, Air Yugoslavia organized the airlines first 707-321 charters to the United States and Canada, and also in 1970 JAT's first DC-9's were delivered.
JH/Pan Adria's DC-9 was also used on charter flights on behalf of JAT - their DC-9 would go to Inex Adria in 1974 with "Leased by Inex-Adria Airways" sticker beside the front door.
The JAT Caravelle did turn up at LGW in the late 60's and early 70's, and I am thinking that I saw them at BHX and EMA too, so assume these were IT flights most likely for Yugotours.
The JAT SE210 fleet were WFU 1976.
Apart from the Spanish charter airlines, AO, TR and HI/XF, it was SAM Italy (owned by AZ) who were the main Caravelle IT charter airline seen into LGW each summer, and also MAN BHX GLA flying for Citalia Holidays and others.
The Yugoslav holiday flights had several advantages over those to Spain etc. They appeared to do no night flights, and for the UK at least operated almost wholly on Saturdays/Sundays. Commonly run as a "W" arrangement in a day, from Pula or Dubrovnik to a UK point, then to the opposite resort, and the reverse in the afternoon. I recall three Aviogenex Tu134A at manchester in 1980, side by side on remote stands, with the crew all out and chatting together. In uniform, but no ties ... unprecedented for UK crews in 1980 ! I believe all crews were ex-Yugoslav air force.
Worked as a dispatcher at MAN in summer 1986, and handled all the Yugoslav airlines - Aviogenex Tu134s, JAT 727s, DC9s and at least 1 707; and Inex Adria DC9s and MD80s.
The crews always used to dive into the terminal to do some shopping as soon as they could on arrival. On one memorable occasion I had to put calls out for them to return urgently as I was 10 mins past STD, and had a JAT 727 full of pax, but just the most junior hosty on board! The baggage handlers needed to leave, and as it was they who moved the steps in those days by the time the crew got back they had to use the built in rear steps. Something of a walk of shame back to the cockpit for the flight deck folk!
The crews always used to dive into the terminal to do some shopping as soon as they could on arrival. On one memorable occasion I had to put calls out for them to return urgently as I was 10 mins past STD, and had a JAT 727 full of pax, but just the most junior hosty on board! The baggage handlers needed to leave, and as it was they who moved the steps in those days by the time the crew got back they had to use the built in rear steps. Something of a walk of shame back to the cockpit for the flight deck folk!
Remember that at that time Yugoslavia was the second most popular holiday destination after Spain. I think with hindsight the number of different airlines trepresented the differenat nations which came out of Yugoslavia - you certainly wouldn't guess that the Inex and the Genex crews were from the same country.
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That all sounds very familiar - the Genex hosties knew how to shop, but it wasn't difficult to cut them some slack...
Remember that at that time Yugoslavia was the second most popular holiday destination after Spain. I think with hindsight the number of different airlines trepresented the differenat nations which came out of Yugoslavia - you certainly wouldn't guess that the Inex and the Genex crews were from the same country.
Remember that at that time Yugoslavia was the second most popular holiday destination after Spain. I think with hindsight the number of different airlines trepresented the differenat nations which came out of Yugoslavia - you certainly wouldn't guess that the Inex and the Genex crews were from the same country.
Far less developed than Yugoslavia by 1970 was Albania, I believe from Dubrovnik there were actually tourist excursions by coach there, carefully routed and chaperoned to avoid the worst. Around this time Lord Brothers actually did a holiday series one year to supposedly-sealed Albania, once a fortnight on a Laker One-Eleven from Gatwick to Tirana, doubtless to a "closed" resort, which must have been a challenge. Don't think they repeated it.
The Yugoslav holiday flights had several advantages over those to Spain etc. They appeared to do no night flights, and for the UK at least operated almost wholly on Saturdays/Sundays. Commonly run as a "W" arrangement in a day, from Pula or Dubrovnik to a UK point, then to the opposite resort, and the reverse in the afternoon. I recall three Aviogenex Tu134A at manchester in 1980, side by side on remote stands, with the crew all out and chatting together. In uniform, but no ties ... unprecedented for UK crews in 1980 ! I believe all crews were ex-Yugoslav air force.
The Duty Free run for the crews was legendary as you mention.
WHBM - If you live in London or the South, perhaps we really should get together one day for a nice lunch or dinner and reminisce? and of course anyone else if they want -
might be fun after such an awful 2 years we have had.
Pprune A&N Charter days Lunch lol
Thread Starter
At Leeds Bradford, our Yugotours flights were on Sunday and Monday. Sunday would get Pula, Dubrovnik and Split and Mondays were always just Ljubljana. All three operators and most types over the years, including the 1-11s leased by Adria from Tarom but no Aviogenex Tupolevs ever. I don't recall any Yugotours stuff on Saturdays but it's such a long time ago I can't be sure. I'm absolutely certain we never saw a JAT DC-10!
Sorry for the thread drift (maybe I should start my own on this), but Mooncrest - I too grew up under the approach of 15/14 at LBA and have often wondered if the airport ever saw certain types in the old days e.g. Vanguard, Britannia ?
Thread Starter
I don't personally remember seeing either type at LBA but I do know for certain that at least one Invicta Vanguard has visited. I've seen a photograph of it parked on stand 1 some time in the early 1970s. It's quite likely to have been on a bulb field charter to Rotterdam. If you look on YouTube, there is a sequence of LBA in the 1970s and the Invicta Vanguard is on there. As for the Bristol Britannia, I absolutely don't know but it is a possibility, given BKS and Northeast kept one or two as back-up aircraft for the Heathrow flights. Helen49, if they're about, will have a better idea.
BKS did not fly their Britannia's in there, nor did Britannia AW...and def No Tridents. They went out of NCL and MME.
I gather earlier in the 1960's Autair flew the Ambassador to Palma from Leeds, as did British Eagle with Viscounts.
BKS may have used the 748's on charters - Rotterdam, Basel and Ostend>?
In 1965 Dan Air Ambassadors flew to Palma and Valencia for Gaytours and Arrowsmith.
Runway 15/33 built for summer 1965 was 5400' long. That same year the Passenger Terminal burned down.
In 1968 the runway was planned to be extended to 7300' but in 1970 this was turned down; it would be years before that was seen (1984) so most of the IT flights were to shorter Med destinations and those like Ostend, Basel, and Rotterdam for the Bulb fields.
So it would still be Viscounts plodding to Gerona and Palma etc.
BKS could not use the Trident at Yeadon.
The 1969 BKS staff mag shows IT flights direct from LBA to Palma Ibiza Girona Barcelona and Rimini - all on BKS viscounts for Airways Holidays, Wallace Arnold and Thomas Cook Holidays on behalf of BEA who chose BKS to op the IT's from the Northeast.
The mag also quotes ''LBA is impossible for Tridents''.
Never knew after the name change if Northeast ever carried on the Viscount charters...The Tridents did from NCL and MME.
In summer 1976 Britannia Airways started their first 737 jets on a charter series to Palma, Alicante followed.
All charter destinations were very seasonal; most holidays back then were sold as 2 weekers, and the charter flights season was quite short, flown mainly at weekends and often as 'W's.
There was not much winter flying then from the smaller regionals like LBA and CDD.
Noted in another thread on LBA posted by Helen49
ADV737 operation from LBA to the Med by Britannia Airways.
The destinations also included Monastir and the vast majority of flights were full. The longevity of the Britannia LBA service speaks for itself.
The locals weren't bothered about the location of the destination....provided they could fly from LBA to the sun!
The flights were operated on the 'W' pattern using Manchester based aircraft and crews.
The flight deck gave LBA their best shot bearing in mind the airport's weather reputation, the lack of an ILS on Runway 15 and the restricted runway length.
The crews were very good at flying the half-mile SRAs on to runway 15. The ATCOs were also pretty good...
The 'W' pattern resulted in an early afternoon arrival and departure at LBA.
These timings enabled the operation to get in and out all the time which was almost unbelievable.
Particularly in the winter half of the year LBA would be shrouded in low cloud, the cloud base being down at Apperley Bridge and the former Murgatroyds chimney would have been nowhere in sight!
Nevertheless by 1300, the visibility both horizontal and vertical would start to improve and by ETA an approach would be legal and a landing accomplished.
Departures, whenever at all possible, took advantage of the greater take-off distance on runway 15, sometimes accepting up to around 15kt tail winds.
No sooner had they departed than the cloud base would return to the deck and visibility to 'not a lot'.
Not unusual for the Britannia 737 movements to be among the very few in the day!