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A.S.T. Perth (Scone) 1966

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A.S.T. Perth (Scone) 1966

Old 19th Jan 2016, 08:10
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Course 33 Brian Murphy (R.I.P.)



Brian Murphy


This was taken in September 1967 at Dublin Airport. Brian is wearing his AST tie and carrying a documents bag with the letters 'Airwork Services Training'.

From memory, Aer Lingus had re-assigned Brian to either Oxford (Kidlington) or Vero Beach and he was waiting for a a start date.

The other man was an employee of Cambrian.

Last edited by Manoir; 14th Jan 2019 at 14:12.
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Old 19th Jan 2016, 23:31
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Control Tower - November 1965



Photo taken during the final BUA selection process for CPL/IR Course 32: two days assessment by the flying school, followed by two days of the BUA Selection Boards. Eleven candidates started, and in the end three were accepted.

The black Humber Hawk (or Super Snipe?) in the background probably belongs to W/Cdr Nugent. Judging from Manoir's 2011 photo, the Tower and aero-club building may have remained substantially unchanged.

Last edited by Chris Scott; 1st Jan 2019 at 18:10. Reason: Reinstating photo
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 10:29
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I've been struggling to post some more recent photos on here without success. Strange, I used to be able to do it! I'll keep trying.


There was a new(er) top put on the tower in the 70's otherwise it is much the same. The ATC service has now been downgraded to A/G Radio. The rest of the tower building is occupied by The Scottish Charity Air Ambulance and the Scottish Conservatives. The aeroclub building (Flight office) is unchanged.


Hangar 1 is ACS engineering and flight training.
H2 is now for container storage.
H3 is the Scottish Aero Club with over 80 aircraft stored. SAC also does microlight and gyrocopter training. Kingsfield Helicopters also share this hangar.
H4 Built in the 90's is AST engineering training. They stopped doing ATPL ground school in December 2015.


The last AST aircraft, 15 C150 Aerobats, 8 Warriors and 6 Cessna 310's were sold in 1996 effectively to one person. The C150's are now spread around the country. 5 of the Warriors went to Oxford Air Training. One of the C310's G-BGXK was scrapped at Perth last year. the rest were spread round the world. I had the pleasure of delivering one of the Warriors G-BTRY to Oxford in 1996.


Most of the other buildings are still here and are now housing, small businesses and even a hotel.


Manoir, wilco. I'll point him towards this thread.

Last edited by dont overfil; 20th Jan 2016 at 12:46. Reason: just thought
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 13:14
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Part of the flight line in November 1965

Hi dont overfil,

In 1966 the aero club occupied part of the tower building, and included catering facilities and a bar. We flying students were promoted to the aero club for messing once we had gained our CPLs: a considerable improvement. The regular students' canteen served reasonable food, but the behaviour of a vociferous minority of the foreign engineering students left much to be desired. I remember plates of food being hurled from one side of the dining area to the other on a couple of occasions during arguments.

Slightly poignant to hear that not everything has changed for the better, but at least Scone remains an active airfield and engineering school. Re the ATPL ground courses, BUA used to send CPL pilots to AST when they had or neared the hours for SCPL or ATPL ("ALTP"). But that practice had ended by the time it would've been my turn, so I had pay for it myself at Sir John Cass College in The Minories, London: commuting there mainly on days off, but sometimes when on home-standby.

Here's part of the apron at Scone, most likely at about midday on 11/11/65 (a Thursday). Course 31 had started about a week earlier.



Quote from DaveReidUK:
"The 150E was the last of the straight-tail models, the 150F and onwards had the swept fin/rudder."

In my previous post about the expansion of the C150 fleet during 1966, I had forgotten that G-ATAT - a 150E - was already there, and that it had the original fin shape. The photo shows clearly, however, that it has the rear-view cockpit windows of the later 150 models. IIRC it also has the electric flaps. So the E-model seems to have marked the transition to the later models. I never understood if their fins were swept for reasons aerodynamic, structural, or merely cosmetic!

Last edited by Chris Scott; 1st Jan 2019 at 18:13. Reason: Photo reinstated
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 16:17
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AST 2011



Harvard House resize
Great pics Chris,

This is the 2011 match of your 1965 picture of the building that encompassed the Tower but from a different angle. The door is marked 'Harvard House' and bears the AST Logo but I am not certain if it is the same entrance we used back then. It looks as if that bit was added.

Last edited by Manoir; 14th Jan 2019 at 14:14. Reason: Re-sized image
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Old 20th Jan 2016, 22:23
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Hello John,

Zooming into your 2011 pic from the bottom of "Spitfire Avenue" the gable end of the roof in front and to the left of the control tower look the same as in my 1965 photo. Is it possible that your 2011 close-up is one of a different part of the building?
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 09:06
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AST

Well spotted Chris!

Having had a look on Google Earth, the photo I posted seems to be of a building to the west of the Tower Block. As you say yourself, the Aero Club was housed in the same building as the Tower.

in 2011, what was evident was the extent to which new buildings, some of them not so pretty, were constructed along side the old ones, gable to gable in some cases. It made re-orientation that bit more difficult. Other buildings that we used have been abandoned but not demolished. I have a picture of what I think is the snooker room but it might equally be one of the three accommodation blocks completed in 1966.
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 12:24
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A nice pic taken last year from a balloon. Thanks Jim.
Harvard House is out of the picture to the left.
The building bottom left is more recent.


Below looking south west towards the city.





Finally a fairly current view from the tower. The blue and white building is now the aero club

Last edited by dont overfil; 21st Jan 2016 at 12:34. Reason: Pics in wrong order
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 14:31
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Strathtay Aero Club 1955

Scone before any commercial training. My PPL courtesy of ATC flying scholarship in 1955,instructors Tom Blyth and Flag J. Club members at the time Mabel Saddler, Archie, Cooper brothers, Sandy Mc ,Bob . Later Les of Tayflight with Fiona M. I went on to the RAF ,Provosts, Vampires, Valiants, Ansons , Canberras, Chipmunks. Visited over 30 different bases from Goose to Gib, Cyprus, Middle East, Africa, Singapore, Manilla, all before any Comets Or 707's and mostly over 40,000ft. Various other flying with Doves, Beech 18, Aztec, 310, 421,etc. Still flying after 60 years and 6,000hrs but limited to Warriors and the like. Happy memories...
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 17:36
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Scone 2015

Hi dont overfil,

What super pictures of the aerodrome today!

In the one looking south-west towards Perth, there's a collection of trees in the middle distance. I reckon just this side of them was the location of a stud farm for cattle in 1966. From time to time the bull used to make a heck of a racket, and one wondered what might be setting him off...

Much of the east view towards the apron, hangars, etc., looks more familiar than I expected. That blue-and-white building attached to the hangar was only the flight office and school admin office in our day, I think, the club social areas being in the Tower building. No paved runways then, of course, but the grass taxiways leading to the grass holding points were accessed via paved spokes leading to what could be likened to a part of the rim of a wheel. Looks to be late afternoon after a "RESHRA"?

Hello sandym,

You started young, and what a variety of types... Safe landings, Sir!
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 21:18
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I never understood if their fins were swept for reasons aerodynamic, structural, or merely cosmetic!
I've read that the swept fin and the rear-view windows ("Omnivision") were a marketing exercise. The change in the rear-fuselage shape caused increased drag, so that the Omnivision Cessnas are slower than their predecessors!

Never mind, it LOOKS faster.
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Old 21st Jan 2016, 23:22
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Course 31 (1965 - 1967)

Thanks, India Four Two. At least the rear-view windows were a safety feature, and the circuit at Scone was very busy.

Time to introduce CPL/IR Course 31, with help from a friend and colleague who was one of its students. The course-proper started early in November 1965 (the handful of foreign students may have come earlier for induction). There was some attrition. By the end of 1966, two students had completed their Instrument Ratings. The remainder were hampered by the bad weather, including strong winds, in the first four months of 1967.



Back row, L to R: O.S. Tan (?), Alan Tyler, Pat Preston, Nick Davis, Brett Langevad, S. Verghese (?), M.C. Cheong, Peter Pereira, M. Saffien bin Desa.
Front row, L to R: Grenville Ess, Julian Birkbeck, Ted Chatfield, Dave Cordery, Roger Hoyle, Mark Carpenter, Geoff Nicholson, Nigel Flack.

Brett Langevad was privately-sponsored, but seemed to have connections with a small East African charter company. Peter Pereira was also private, but seemed to have an understanding with BWIA. Funding may have been a problem, and they both slipped to Course 32. Brett was the previously-mentioned, solo pilot of the Chipmunk (G-AOSA) that crashed near Coupar Angus on 4/12/66. He suffered only minor injuries, and later resumed his training elsewhere.

Roger Hoyle had studied law and also been a management trainee in his sponsor airline, BUA. He was one of the first on Course 31 to graduate from AST. Like most of the BUA cadets of the period, he was seconded to BUAF (car ferry) at Lydd on the Bristol 170. Later, he flew the One-Eleven in BUA and BCAL, gaining his command and then progressing to the B707 and DC-10. Meanwhile, his literary skills were exploited as editor of BALPA's journal, The Log, for many years; and his abilities of hard work, organisation, leadership and debating skill - plus a lifetime vocation to help those less talented to fight their own corners - took him to a much-admired chairmanship of the BCAL (BALPA) PLC.

After the takeover of BCAL by BA, Roger fought hard to promote the cause of a minority of other pilots whose pensions had fallen foul of the merger. Feeling let down by the organisation for whom he had served so loyally, he eventually resigned from BALPA. By that time he was a training captain on the A320, on which fleet he stayed until retirement in 1998. Unready to be grounded, he joined British Mediterranean and flew their A320s for just under a year before feeling ill on return from an unexpected Christmas layover. He died of cancer about three weeks later. R.I.P., Roger...

Last edited by Chris Scott; 21st Jan 2023 at 16:43. Reason: 17Mar2016: (1)Names added; (2)Image source changed to photobucket. 21Jan2023: Image resourced
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Old 24th Jan 2016, 18:43
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Course 31 students

Much of the following is guesswork, so if you know better don't hesitate to challenge or expand it by post or PM...

Safien Desa and Grenville Ess were sponsored by MSA (Malaysia-Singapore Airlines), which had just been formed from Singapore-based Malayan Airways and Borneo Airways. In 1972, MSA split into what are now Malaysia Airlines and Singapore Airlines. Desa and Ess continued their long careers in Malaysia and Singapore respectively.

M.C. Cheong and O.S. Tan are likely also to have been MSA-sponsored, as is S. Verghese. However, any firm information would be appreciated!

The remaining students were all BUA-sponsored, destined (as was normal at that time) to be detached to associate companies operating propellor-driven types. Except for about three Viscounts, BUA mainline was an all-jet fleet of VC10s and BAC 1-11s based at Gatwick, and - unlike BEA and BOAC - operated with only one, full-time co-pilot in each cockpit. (It was not until the late 1970s that BUA's successor-airline, BCAL, was prepared to place cadets straight out of flying school on to the right-hand seat of a One-Eleven; there being no smaller aircraft available.)

Cordery, Hoyle, Nicholson, and Tyler went to BUAF at Lydd, Southend or Southampton; initially on Bristol 170s. Birkbeck and Preston went to British United (Manx) Airways at Blackpool on Dakotas or Dart Heralds. Flack, Davis and Chatfield went to BUA (CI) Ltd at Jersey on Dart Heralds. Mark Carpenter went to Morton Air Services at Gatwick on Herons and (later) Dakotas - the first cadet to go there.

Detached co-pilots expected to spend about three years cutting their teeth operating multi-sector days on the above types. All being well, that would be followed by a transfer to mainline for a One-Eleven course. By the end of 1971, however, the seniority list for BUA's successor airline, BCAL, shows only Cordery, Hoyle, Birkbeck and Carpenter. Nicholson and Preston seem to have left voluntarily and gone to BOAC and Cathay Pacific respectively. Flack, Davis and Chatfield had been made redundant when BUA(CI) at Jersey was closed down by the Bristow purge **, despite only being there on detachment. Nigel soon began a new career at Cathay Pacific. Ted flew in Africa for a while, and then landed a job with BOAC.

** 1968/9 was a tumultuous time for the financially-ailing BUA Group. The owners had appointed Alan Bristow as group MD, tasked with steering it to profitability. He decided to de-unionise the companies, starting with the flight crews. (F/Es and BUA's specialist Navs were not in BALPA.) Crews in all the companies were invited to sign personal contracts, or be made redundant. The strikes that followed were well-supported; most of all in Jersey, where it was also particularly acrimonious. Bristow also closed BU(Manx) and Morton's, pilots being offered personal contracts with the replacement airline: BUIA. Although no two cases were identical, much of the dispersal of BUA ex-cadets to other airlines between 1968 and 1970 can be attributed wholly or partly to these events.

Last edited by Chris Scott; 5th Jan 2019 at 16:47. Reason: Nick Davis's Jersey posting added
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Old 25th Jan 2016, 16:37
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PRINCIPAL'S OFFICE - 15/12/65

DRESS and PERSONAL DISCIPLINE: Since my return from East Africa I have noticed the standard of tidiness of the Flying Students, in particular the sponsored students, has deteriorated and this matter is to be rectified at once. For the information of B.U.A. sponsored students, the School Authorities have been directed by Captain Jennings that all B.U.A. students are to be issued with school uniform on the commencement of their training and Major Pitt will be making arrangements for No. 31 Course to be so issued in the immediate future.

- Captain R. Critchley, Chief Instructor
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Old 26th Jan 2016, 09:29
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Course 33 - Rupert Mount

Course 33 began on 6th March 1966 with 21 students, a record number, exceeded only by Course 32!

Fifteen were sponsored by Aer Lingus, five by Cambrian and one other, Mike King whose CPL was self-sponsored. Not previously mentioned is Rupert Mount, one of the five sponsored by Cambrian.

The son of a Kent farmer, his cut-glass accent complimented his impeccable manners and dress sense. Despite our intense training schedule, Rupert always found time for a chat and chuckle in passing.

One day, news broke that Rupert's training was being terminated. I met him on the way to Flight Briefing and offered my commiserations. His reply came in the oft-used two-word Anglo-Saxon phrase covered by the phonetic alphabet's 'Foxtrot' and 'Oscar'...understandable in the circumstances.

He may have resumed flying training elsewhere but as his name never came up subsequently, one concludes that he pursued a non-flying career, the hope being that things worked out.

Last edited by Manoir; 3rd Feb 2016 at 16:40.
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Old 26th Jan 2016, 10:50
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Sandym,
Good to hear you are still flying. We met at Tayside when you were flying for "Tricky D-Dicky in the 421 in the late 80's. I worked for J McA at the time.
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Old 26th Jan 2016, 18:05
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"INSTRUCTORS, ETC." (early 1966)

This was the official list, although its proper layout in columns cannot be duplicated here. And why would students need to know initials, let alone a Christian name? However, some of the flying instructors' names have been mentioned previously: here and here.

Mr Nugent - Principal
Capt Critchley - Chief Instructor
Capt Pow - CFI
Capt Hamilton - Instrument Training Flight Capt

Flying Instructors (Captains):
Sweetman, Foote, Holmes, Peddell, Pankhurst, Hurrell, Stone, Capon, Kirkpatrick, Lockhart (CFI Aero Club).

Mr Oldfield - Chief Ground Instructor

Ground Instructors (Messrs):
Robertson, Storie, McCormack, McGregor, McRae, Hunter.

Mr Thomson - SATCO
ATCOs (Messrs):
McFarlane, Mitchell, Craig.

Mr Calder - Bursar
Major Pitt - Welfare Officer
Mr Stewart - Ass. Welfare Officer [sic]
Miss Carr (?) - Matron
Mrs Baillie - Timekeeper
Mrs Davis - Record-keeper

[EDIT]
Among those missing from that list were:
H.J. (John) Brown - Link-Trainer instructor. And did he have an assistant?
J.E. Allen - Navigation instructor
L.A. Mackay - Catering Manager
E. Hodson - Chief Engineer

Last edited by Chris Scott; 21st Jan 2023 at 16:47.
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Old 27th Jan 2016, 10:47
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AST 1966

Just for interest I have posted a picture of Pooch Nugent with Bill Hamilton (left) and Bob Critchley (right). Not 100% sure about Bill and Bob but no doubts about Pooch. My father, Eric Hodson, was Chief Engineer Scone and we used to live opposite the Nugent's.
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Old 27th Jan 2016, 13:03
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Hi Hoddy,


Was it this one?
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Old 27th Jan 2016, 14:37
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Chief Engineer - Memos to flying students

Welcome, Hoddy!

Have you got a photo of your father, Eric Hodson, to post?

He used the medium of the Monthly Bulletin to pass on gems of advice to us rookie aviators, and this is particularly evident in the winter of '65/'66. Here's part of one in a series of "DON'Ts", published 15/11/65, including a nice line in humour:

(4) DON'T, during the pre-flight check, push and handle control surfaces as if you want to remove them from the aircraft. These surfaces are designed for flight loads only and excessive handling can and does cause skin cracking and distortion. The 310 tailplane is subject to this form of cracking, and we have had cases where the trouble was definitely caused by attempts to tear it from the fuselage during pre-flight. It has been said that the skin structure of some modern light aircraft resembles annealed silver paper. While this comment is not strictly correct, it does point out a moral: "Gently does it".

The peculiar sound heard when the skin structures are loaded externally and excessively, i.e., by lifting, pushing and pulling, is called "oil-canning" by our American cousins. The difference is that an oil can is designed to do it!
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