A.S.T. Perth (Scone) 1966
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Yep,, if you make it the 7th, Bob Thursby Peter Steely John Barron and I take ale every Thursday
Last edited by CSman; 15th Jun 2016 at 20:40. Reason: forgot to include myself
Thread Starter
Course 34 (1966 - 1967)
Thanks, Manoir. Don't think I've got one of my own of "Footie", but there may be one in one of the school magazines when I have a chance to dig them out again. Bit tied up until the 24th, and then going on holiday...
Here's the course photo for Course 34. As usual, it's scanned from the AST magazine. Should've posted it earlier, as the course started proper in early May 1966. Evidently a small course, unless there were absentees for the photo-shoot. Regret I only have the names of the BUA students, but maybe Norman will remember some of the others.
Back row, L to R: 1 (?), Norman Evans, Graham Sturrock, 4 (?)
Front row, L to R: 1 (?), Gordon Ross-Munro, Dougie Mackay, 4 (?), Pete Buchanan
Here's the course photo for Course 34. As usual, it's scanned from the AST magazine. Should've posted it earlier, as the course started proper in early May 1966. Evidently a small course, unless there were absentees for the photo-shoot. Regret I only have the names of the BUA students, but maybe Norman will remember some of the others.
Back row, L to R: 1 (?), Norman Evans, Graham Sturrock, 4 (?)
Front row, L to R: 1 (?), Gordon Ross-Munro, Dougie Mackay, 4 (?), Pete Buchanan
Thread Starter
INSTRUCTORS - early 1966
Quote from Manoir:
"Brilliant pics, Chris!
Where's Footie?"
Sadly, I don't have one of my own. But The Journal for Winter 1965/66 provides the following, the first page of a two-page spread:
Capt Alec Peddell, who sent me solo - but left AST not long after for a similar job at Hamble in the Spring of 1966;
Capt Ray Foote, who instructed on all types;
Capt Bill(?) Stone;
Jamie Hunter, who was a dedicated and supportive ground instructor, later moving to the Carlisle flying school;
John Brown, who introduced us to procedural I/F in the Link Trainer;
Capt Terry Capon, who was Course 32 flying instructor, later becoming a Herald skipper in BUA(Manx)/BUIA/BIA before joining the Caledonian-BUA (later BCAL) VC10 fleet in 1971 as a co-pilot.
"Brilliant pics, Chris!
Where's Footie?"
Sadly, I don't have one of my own. But The Journal for Winter 1965/66 provides the following, the first page of a two-page spread:
Capt Alec Peddell, who sent me solo - but left AST not long after for a similar job at Hamble in the Spring of 1966;
Capt Ray Foote, who instructed on all types;
Capt Bill(?) Stone;
Jamie Hunter, who was a dedicated and supportive ground instructor, later moving to the Carlisle flying school;
John Brown, who introduced us to procedural I/F in the Link Trainer;
Capt Terry Capon, who was Course 32 flying instructor, later becoming a Herald skipper in BUA(Manx)/BUIA/BIA before joining the Caledonian-BUA (later BCAL) VC10 fleet in 1971 as a co-pilot.
Last edited by Chris Scott; 21st Jul 2016 at 19:40.
Thread Starter
INSTRUCTORS - early 1966 (cont'd)
Okay chaps,
Here's the other side of that two-page spread:
Capt Lew Hurrell;
Capt Andy Pankhurst;
Capt D (?) Kirkpatrick;
Mr (?) Robertson, a kindly gent who - among other things - taught us to send and read Morse;
Mr (?) Allen;
Mr Mackay, whose catering efforts encouraged me in desperation to develop a taste for sheep's liver - daubed with copious amounts of English mustard...
Here's the other side of that two-page spread:
Capt Lew Hurrell;
Capt Andy Pankhurst;
Capt D (?) Kirkpatrick;
Mr (?) Robertson, a kindly gent who - among other things - taught us to send and read Morse;
Mr (?) Allen;
Mr Mackay, whose catering efforts encouraged me in desperation to develop a taste for sheep's liver - daubed with copious amounts of English mustard...
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AST Instructors
These pictures really bring it back! Great that you were able to source these, Chris.
Jack Robertson - as you say a kindly man who brought a very human touch to his instructing. He was a smoker (weren't they nearly all back then?) and he walked with a pronounced limp - the result of an illness, I seem to remember him telling us. He spoke with a Canadian accent and had flown DC 6s.
Jamie Hunter - to this day, I can hear his voice in my mind's ear! Strong Scottish tones with a slight nasal quality. He struggled to pronounce some of the Aer Lingus names in Irish. Sometimes joked about his hangovers...
Jack Robertson - as you say a kindly man who brought a very human touch to his instructing. He was a smoker (weren't they nearly all back then?) and he walked with a pronounced limp - the result of an illness, I seem to remember him telling us. He spoke with a Canadian accent and had flown DC 6s.
Jamie Hunter - to this day, I can hear his voice in my mind's ear! Strong Scottish tones with a slight nasal quality. He struggled to pronounce some of the Aer Lingus names in Irish. Sometimes joked about his hangovers...
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Mr (?) Allen
Ah sheep's liver, haute cuisine. Try the stew with bits of meat still having fur attached ..... yum!
Last edited by Offchocks; 30th Jul 2016 at 23:17.
Thread Starter
Course 32 - CPL GFTs
50 years ago, at the end of January 1967, Course 32 was getting ready for our CPL GFTs. Mine was programmed for the 25th, as can be seen on the Flying Programme for that day:
Bad weather delayed my GFT until the 26th. My examiner was the legendary Captain Jimmy Joy, from CAFU at Stansted.
Progress with flying hours of the individual students was also displayed in chinagraph pencil on a perspex board. Hours were a matter of great interest to us all. This is the Course 32 board on 25/1/67:
The three Nepalese students are shown at the bottom. They were not being prepared for Instrument Ratings, but were already on the Cessna 310.
Bad weather delayed my GFT until the 26th. My examiner was the legendary Captain Jimmy Joy, from CAFU at Stansted.
Progress with flying hours of the individual students was also displayed in chinagraph pencil on a perspex board. Hours were a matter of great interest to us all. This is the Course 32 board on 25/1/67:
The three Nepalese students are shown at the bottom. They were not being prepared for Instrument Ratings, but were already on the Cessna 310.
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AST, Perth 1966/67
Chris,
Great to see these programmes after 50 years! Most of us on Course 33 would have done our GFT by Christmas so progressing to the 172 for us would have begun in January. Your efforts in unearthing all this source material half a century later is much appreciated.
Great to see these programmes after 50 years! Most of us on Course 33 would have done our GFT by Christmas so progressing to the 172 for us would have begun in January. Your efforts in unearthing all this source material half a century later is much appreciated.
Thread Starter
Cessna 172
Quote:
"Most of us on Course 33 would have done our GFT by Christmas..."
I rather doubt that, John, because on Course 32 we only started our CPL GFTs at the end of January (see my post). Very late, admittedly.
BTW, what was the rationale of going on to the C172 before the IR course on the C310?
[EDIT]
Since my question above, and having looked at an article in a contemporary edition of The Journal (the AST magazine), it seems that Manoir is right to suggest that students normally got some flying on the C172 between completing the CPL GFT and starting the Instrument Rating course on the C310. The article points out that the 172, with its larger instrument panel, had R/Nav aids - lacking on the C150s. Presumably that might allow some familiarisation with RMIs. The Link Trainer on which students were introduced to procedural instrument flying was not fitted with RMIs. Its ADF display, for example, was a traditional relative-bearing indicator.
In view of the fact that I never got any recordable flying on a 172, I can only assume that my sponsor, BUA, was trying to reduce costs for its Course 32 students. Whereas hours on the C150 were charged at the modest rate of £7/10/- (if memory serves), the C172 would have been nearer £10.
On reflection that might have been a false economy because - whereas the three C310s (G-ARBC, G-ARCH and G-ARCI) lacked RMIs, if memory serves - the fourth one that arrived in early February of '67 had an ADF RMI, as can be seen in my photo here:
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...ml#post9353351
With flying on the C310 being charged at the princely sum of £30 per hour (yes!
), the less time wasted due to unnecessary confusion on instrumentation the better. However, another problem for flying on the 172 was availability. There were only two, IIRC, and they were popular with non-student members of the Scottish Aero Club.
Those students that had only flown solo in the C150, which by 1966/7 represented the great majority, might also have been given some hours on the Chipmunk after GFT. By the time Course 32 had reached that stage, however, only two Chippies were remaining of the original four, two having been written-off in crashes during 1966:
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...ml#post9207293
"Most of us on Course 33 would have done our GFT by Christmas..."
I rather doubt that, John, because on Course 32 we only started our CPL GFTs at the end of January (see my post). Very late, admittedly.
BTW, what was the rationale of going on to the C172 before the IR course on the C310?
[EDIT]
Since my question above, and having looked at an article in a contemporary edition of The Journal (the AST magazine), it seems that Manoir is right to suggest that students normally got some flying on the C172 between completing the CPL GFT and starting the Instrument Rating course on the C310. The article points out that the 172, with its larger instrument panel, had R/Nav aids - lacking on the C150s. Presumably that might allow some familiarisation with RMIs. The Link Trainer on which students were introduced to procedural instrument flying was not fitted with RMIs. Its ADF display, for example, was a traditional relative-bearing indicator.
In view of the fact that I never got any recordable flying on a 172, I can only assume that my sponsor, BUA, was trying to reduce costs for its Course 32 students. Whereas hours on the C150 were charged at the modest rate of £7/10/- (if memory serves), the C172 would have been nearer £10.
On reflection that might have been a false economy because - whereas the three C310s (G-ARBC, G-ARCH and G-ARCI) lacked RMIs, if memory serves - the fourth one that arrived in early February of '67 had an ADF RMI, as can be seen in my photo here:
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...ml#post9353351
With flying on the C310 being charged at the princely sum of £30 per hour (yes!
), the less time wasted due to unnecessary confusion on instrumentation the better. However, another problem for flying on the 172 was availability. There were only two, IIRC, and they were popular with non-student members of the Scottish Aero Club.Those students that had only flown solo in the C150, which by 1966/7 represented the great majority, might also have been given some hours on the Chipmunk after GFT. By the time Course 32 had reached that stage, however, only two Chippies were remaining of the original four, two having been written-off in crashes during 1966:
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...ml#post9207293
Last edited by Chris Scott; 10th Feb 2017 at 10:36. Reason: See [EDIT].
Thread Starter
NIGHT FLYING
Something we haven't covered so far is night-flying training, which had culminated in two cross-country flights to Edinburgh (Turnhouse) and back - the first dual and the second solo - before we did our CPL GFTs. In my case it started in the second week of November and totalled about 12 hours' flying in 8 weeks, of which 4 hours were dual. This was interspersed with our normal day flying, which was mainly solo and cross-country and included landings away from Perth, plus our CPL GFT cross-country with the CFI, Don Pow. All this had taken us through December and into January, with about 12 days' leave over Christmas and New Year.
It's probably worth mentioning something about the Scone airfield and the aeroplane. The runways and taxiing routes outside the apron area were all grass, and after a spell of wet weather the very high number of movements resulted in the softer areas becoming very muddy. Aircraft occasionally got stuck. One fairly effective taxiing technique on the C150 was to apply a lot of power and full up-elevator just before reaching a muddy patch, and speed across it. So much for the recommended "fast walking-pace"...
Unfortunately, night flying in Scotland in summer is virtually impossible, and the autumn and spring tend to be wet. So winter conditions can be the best.
Parts of the runways at Scone also became soft and muddy. On take-off the C150 would un-stick at about 45 mph IAS. It was not uncommon to reach about 40 mph, then hit a soft patch. At night that happened with little warning from the landing lights, and the IAS sometimes decayed for some seconds before increasing again. The trees not far beyond the end of the westerly runways were invisible.
The C150's achilles-heel was the nose-gear leg, which had a tendency to collapse. The most common cause seemed to be a fast landing with touchdown on three points on soft ground, and I don't recall any breaking on take-off while I was there. I don't think we were allowed to touch-and-go at night, but I stand to be corrected.
After a few sessions of circuit-bashing, we did a couple of local excursions a few miles away to Newburgh or Coupar Angus so as to practise rejoining the circuit at night. Later, the night cross-countries to Edinburgh took us ESE at 2500 ft to Creil, on the east coast of Fife, and then WSW along the coast via Leven and Kirkcaldy to a place called Aberdour. There we had to hold until Turnhouse Approach gave us clearance to cross the Firth of Forth and join the circuit. Plenty of lights of habitation except over the centre of Fife and, of course, the Firth. The latter looks very wide and dark when on the wrong side of it in a single-engined aeroplane at 2000 ft, the altitude ATC cleared me to hold at Aberdour on my solo trip.
It's probably worth mentioning something about the Scone airfield and the aeroplane. The runways and taxiing routes outside the apron area were all grass, and after a spell of wet weather the very high number of movements resulted in the softer areas becoming very muddy. Aircraft occasionally got stuck. One fairly effective taxiing technique on the C150 was to apply a lot of power and full up-elevator just before reaching a muddy patch, and speed across it. So much for the recommended "fast walking-pace"...
Unfortunately, night flying in Scotland in summer is virtually impossible, and the autumn and spring tend to be wet. So winter conditions can be the best.
Parts of the runways at Scone also became soft and muddy. On take-off the C150 would un-stick at about 45 mph IAS. It was not uncommon to reach about 40 mph, then hit a soft patch. At night that happened with little warning from the landing lights, and the IAS sometimes decayed for some seconds before increasing again. The trees not far beyond the end of the westerly runways were invisible.
The C150's achilles-heel was the nose-gear leg, which had a tendency to collapse. The most common cause seemed to be a fast landing with touchdown on three points on soft ground, and I don't recall any breaking on take-off while I was there. I don't think we were allowed to touch-and-go at night, but I stand to be corrected.
After a few sessions of circuit-bashing, we did a couple of local excursions a few miles away to Newburgh or Coupar Angus so as to practise rejoining the circuit at night. Later, the night cross-countries to Edinburgh took us ESE at 2500 ft to Creil, on the east coast of Fife, and then WSW along the coast via Leven and Kirkcaldy to a place called Aberdour. There we had to hold until Turnhouse Approach gave us clearance to cross the Firth of Forth and join the circuit. Plenty of lights of habitation except over the centre of Fife and, of course, the Firth. The latter looks very wide and dark when on the wrong side of it in a single-engined aeroplane at 2000 ft, the altitude ATC cleared me to hold at Aberdour on my solo trip.
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In the years between when you were there Chris and when I started in 1973, the management must have recognized the problem that the soft ground would cause and constructed two paved runways. They still had one grass runway, but it was not the best.
Thread Starter
The aerodrome in 1965 and 2007
Yes Offchocks,
I found some current information, courtesy of SkyVector. It includes links to a couple of good, recent images from short-finals on Rwys 03 and 09:
https://skyvector.com/airport/EGPT/Perth-Scone-Airport
Here's the ICAO State Approach (VDF) and aerodrome chart, issued in 1965. The Tay Estuary is clearly shown as far as Dundee (Riverside Park) airfield and the Tay Bridge. The disused airfield on the way there is, of course, Errol, and those power lines are also shown.
On the Scone aerodrome chart, I've roughly superimposed the runways as configured today. Rwy 15/33 is still grass. Is that how they were in 1973? They are all significantly shorter than their grass predecessors. Judging from the Google satellite map, the perimeter road seems to have changed little since the 1960s.
I found some current information, courtesy of SkyVector. It includes links to a couple of good, recent images from short-finals on Rwys 03 and 09:
https://skyvector.com/airport/EGPT/Perth-Scone-Airport
Here's the ICAO State Approach (VDF) and aerodrome chart, issued in 1965. The Tay Estuary is clearly shown as far as Dundee (Riverside Park) airfield and the Tay Bridge. The disused airfield on the way there is, of course, Errol, and those power lines are also shown.
On the Scone aerodrome chart, I've roughly superimposed the runways as configured today. Rwy 15/33 is still grass. Is that how they were in 1973? They are all significantly shorter than their grass predecessors. Judging from the Google satellite map, the perimeter road seems to have changed little since the 1960s.
Last edited by Chris Scott; 10th Feb 2017 at 23:24. Reason: Link corrected.
Thread Starter
Hi Offchocks. Quote:
"In the years between when you were there Chris and when I started in 1973, the management must have recognized the problem that the soft ground would cause and constructed two paved runways. They still had one grass runway, but it was not the best."
To resume that discussion, I think the two UAS Chippies in this photo - taken around January 1967 - were doing their engine run-ups prior to take-off on the then Rwy 05 (see aerodrome chart). You will well remember the heavily wooded area that dominated the western flank of the aerodrome - and still does I think.
The next photo was probably taken at dusk on the same day, looking due east with G-ARZX passing over the boundary fence at the south-west corner of the airfield for landing on Rwy 05.
The soft and/or bumpy grass runways were, as previously discussed, particularly hard on the Cessna 150 nose-gear, contributing to several collapses in my time at Scone - usually, admittedly, when landing too fast. But it may have also had a detrimental effect on the landing gear of the much-faster Cessna 310s, which I plan to touch on later.
"In the years between when you were there Chris and when I started in 1973, the management must have recognized the problem that the soft ground would cause and constructed two paved runways. They still had one grass runway, but it was not the best."
To resume that discussion, I think the two UAS Chippies in this photo - taken around January 1967 - were doing their engine run-ups prior to take-off on the then Rwy 05 (see aerodrome chart). You will well remember the heavily wooded area that dominated the western flank of the aerodrome - and still does I think.
The next photo was probably taken at dusk on the same day, looking due east with G-ARZX passing over the boundary fence at the south-west corner of the airfield for landing on Rwy 05.
The soft and/or bumpy grass runways were, as previously discussed, particularly hard on the Cessna 150 nose-gear, contributing to several collapses in my time at Scone - usually, admittedly, when landing too fast. But it may have also had a detrimental effect on the landing gear of the much-faster Cessna 310s, which I plan to touch on later.
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According to Google maps the woods are still there at the end of RWY27, would not have been too pretty if you lost an engine just after takeoff in a C150!
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Last days
The final days of AST Flight Training at Perth.
July 1996 the last of the Warriors being delivered to Oxford Air Training. I delivered G-BTRY.
Offchocks,
Yes, the woods are still there. However, the line of trees nearest the runway have been cut down. Still a bad place for an EFTO!
July 1996 the last of the Warriors being delivered to Oxford Air Training. I delivered G-BTRY.
Offchocks,
Yes, the woods are still there. However, the line of trees nearest the runway have been cut down. Still a bad place for an EFTO!