EE Canberra book contributor request
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Steve, Some more info on the canopy ejection system, this is an extract from RAF Watton-info,Flying with 527 Sqdn by Ralph Swift.
The Watton Canberra‘s were B2’s and had ejection seats for the single pilot and both navigators but in both cases it was a requirement to get rid of an explosive canopy prior to ejection. In the case of the training Canberra, the T4, although the navigators had ejection seats the cramped cockpit for both pilots did not afford enough room for ejection seats and the only way out for the pilots was to slide the right hand seat backward, open the side door in the fuselage and bale out conventionally. In a situation that required the pilots to abandon the aircraft it was a very hit and miss affair and when the Canberra later had a problem with runaway tailplane actuators I think it proved impossible to get out in the time available.
Reference the tailplane trim actuators, the wiring for the actuator was unbroken i.e. one continuous length with no plug breaks from cockpit s/w's to actuators as part of the fix for the runaway trim. Changing this wiring was not fun as you can imagine.
The Watton Canberra‘s were B2’s and had ejection seats for the single pilot and both navigators but in both cases it was a requirement to get rid of an explosive canopy prior to ejection. In the case of the training Canberra, the T4, although the navigators had ejection seats the cramped cockpit for both pilots did not afford enough room for ejection seats and the only way out for the pilots was to slide the right hand seat backward, open the side door in the fuselage and bale out conventionally. In a situation that required the pilots to abandon the aircraft it was a very hit and miss affair and when the Canberra later had a problem with runaway tailplane actuators I think it proved impossible to get out in the time available.
Reference the tailplane trim actuators, the wiring for the actuator was unbroken i.e. one continuous length with no plug breaks from cockpit s/w's to actuators as part of the fix for the runaway trim. Changing this wiring was not fun as you can imagine.
Just to clarify the above post,the comment about the pilots not having ejection seats of course only applies to the extremely early T4 a/c,The 'Swing' seat for the instructor overcame that particular problem fairly quickly and All RAF T birds were fitted with bang seats as standard,the early a/c being modified ASAP
rgds LR
rgds LR
Firstly can I bring to everyone’s attention the fact that Steve has edited his opening post? In summary, half the proceeds of the book will go to the RAF Benevolent Fund. A good gesture Steve, thanks for that and I hope the book goes well!
A couple of stories.
This first one is not directly related but it might provoke others memories. In the late 70’s a T17 flat-spotted it’s belly at Coningsby. The MU spent about a Year / 18 Months replacing all the worn away bits and then came the job of putting all the boxes back in and checking systems that had lain dormant for a prolonged period. As such the guys from Wyton Canberra Servicing Flight went across during the last 4 to 6 weeks of the fix. In the latter stages I went across for a week to do some electrical bits.
I found that we were lodged at a B&B in Woodhall Spa – miles away from Coningsby and civilisation as I knew it. So, the first night there, I asked the others who had lodged there a few weeks where the nearest entertainment was. I was advised that there was a Pub at the other end of the village. I was also advised that the landlady was a bit stern and did not like late comings and goings. Anyway, a few of us sallied forth and my abiding recollection is of walking for ages along a long straight road to the Pub. It must have been a good evening because, when we eventually came back, I had a severe fit of the giggles and I insisted that others should share my good humour – even if they had been asleep for a couple of hours!
The next morning I came down to breakfast and was confronted by a stony faced landlady. She advised me that my presence was no longer wanted in her establishment and I must make other accommodation arrangements immediately.
Oh Dear! What to do?! Well, the upshot was that, for the rest of the week, I found myself billeted in a Pub opposite a chip shop and only five minutes from work! I never did write to thank her!
The second story is an object lesson in never volunteering. This is the condensed version. Rang at home at 22:30 on a Friday and asked if I and a couple of others could go and do a job on a Canberra stuck in Portugal. Foolishly I volunteered. So 01:00 Saturday we left Wyton for Lyneham where we jumped on a Herc. Flew to Oporto Airport in Portugal and spent three hours on the pan fixing the Aircraft and seeing it off. Surprised to find we were then going to Gibraltar and not Lyneham. Landed at Gibraltar where everything was shut for Siesta and we were left alone on the pan for three or more hours. Finally flew back to the UK. Arrived Wyton Sunday 02:30 having been to two Countries and saw two airfields. During that time we never had sight of a Bar or even any ‘Duty Frees’. To say it was a disappointing trip would be an understatement!
And lastly…
It was a Friday afternoon – isn’t it always a Friday afternoon?! 1979 and the Canberra Servicing Flight at Wyton has a Hangar full of T4, T17 and PR9 Canberra’s. The Chief is on Holiday for a fortnight, the Sergeant is going on holiday after cease work and I will be in charge of the Electrical section next week. Right, a cunning plan! Next week we will be short of Electricians so today I will try and get some of the niff-naff job cards done so that I can give myself more time to multi-task on whatever admin needs to be done next week as well as the normal Hangar jobs.
Trawling through all the out-standing job cards I managed to clear a few on the other Aircraft in the Hangar. I then came to the PR9 which was within a day or two of completion.
One of the jobs to be done during the latter part of a PR9 check was to see that the supply to the Engine start system (Avpin) was OK. This was done by removing one of the Hangar safety (dummy) fuses, refitting the proper fuse and pressing the start button. A test light in the disconnected start system plug would then come on. If all was OK then the fuse was removed and the dummy refitted. The plug was then connected, wire locked and the card could be signed off.
I noticed that the Starboard Engine start system card had been signed up but the Port Engine one had not. I asked if this job could be done and was told all the bits were back in and it could be tested
A slight digression to explain the pertinent details of a PR9. The fighter style canopy is off-set to the left. This leaves room for a large Fuel control and Engine start panel on the right hand console. The whole console is pivoted so it can swing outwards and downwards to reveal a pit that you can jump into with a little bit of jiggling about. A fuse panel is on the rear facing wall of this pit.
So off I go and get the test lamp and connect it up to the Port start system. I ask one of the riggers fitting some panels on the Starboard wing if he will look at the light to tell me if the system is OK. I then wiggle down into the pit and, looking aft, I fit the Port fuse (the Port & Starboard start fuses are adjacent to each other). Rather than wiggling out and looking to see what I am doing – and also to save a little bit of time - I half pull the panel up, reach up and round to blindly press the Port start switch.
A tremendous noise fills my world and reverberates round the Hangar! What on earth has happened? I am now acutely aware that the Starboard Engine start system worked successfully! I switch the Battery off and vacate the Aircraft. Luckily I had checked that the Fuel Cocks were shut and the other Hangar safety fuses were in place beforehand.
So what went wrong? With the benefit of hindsight the answer was easy. I was in a rush to get jobs done before people knocked off on the Friday afternoon. In my haste I made two wrongs that definitely did not make a right! Sitting in the pit looking aft I put the left hand fuse in. In my eyes it was the Port one but, as you have now gathered, it was the Starboard one. I tried to save a minute or two by not getting out of the pit to push the button and then have to get back in it to remove the live fuse and replace the dummy one and then wiggle back out again. So I remained in the Pit, still facing aft and reached up to press the start button furthest away. Again in my eyes this was the Port one.
For those who hadn’t heard the start cycle, which would have been no-one as the sound resonated really well inside the closed Hangar, the smell of spent Avpin would have also attracted people like moths to a flame. Avpin has a distinctive but not particularly nice smell so the Hangar doors were opened and a gathering of the curious ensued. Wingco Engineering happened to be in the area and asked what was going on. When told he apparently said two words “Charge him!”.
Meanwhile, back in the Hangar… As I knew what had happened, and had smelt enough spent Avpin from working on Lightnings, I did not need to stay with the gathering masses milling round the Aircraft. So I quietly walked away and over to the nearby ablutions. A fitting place to stand and ponder my career going down the toilet!
Nowadays there would be a Human Factors inquiry to see what lessons could be learnt and measures introduced to prevent it happening again. Obviously it would not have been my fault, it would have been the system or the procedures or the culture. Back then it was a slapped wrist and career limiting – or, more exactly in my case, career stagnation. And rightly so! I was a grown up doing a grown-ups job and I made a mistake. I was lucky that no one was hurt and it was only my pride and promotion that suffered. It could have been a lot worse!
A couple of stories.
This first one is not directly related but it might provoke others memories. In the late 70’s a T17 flat-spotted it’s belly at Coningsby. The MU spent about a Year / 18 Months replacing all the worn away bits and then came the job of putting all the boxes back in and checking systems that had lain dormant for a prolonged period. As such the guys from Wyton Canberra Servicing Flight went across during the last 4 to 6 weeks of the fix. In the latter stages I went across for a week to do some electrical bits.
I found that we were lodged at a B&B in Woodhall Spa – miles away from Coningsby and civilisation as I knew it. So, the first night there, I asked the others who had lodged there a few weeks where the nearest entertainment was. I was advised that there was a Pub at the other end of the village. I was also advised that the landlady was a bit stern and did not like late comings and goings. Anyway, a few of us sallied forth and my abiding recollection is of walking for ages along a long straight road to the Pub. It must have been a good evening because, when we eventually came back, I had a severe fit of the giggles and I insisted that others should share my good humour – even if they had been asleep for a couple of hours!
The next morning I came down to breakfast and was confronted by a stony faced landlady. She advised me that my presence was no longer wanted in her establishment and I must make other accommodation arrangements immediately.
Oh Dear! What to do?! Well, the upshot was that, for the rest of the week, I found myself billeted in a Pub opposite a chip shop and only five minutes from work! I never did write to thank her!
The second story is an object lesson in never volunteering. This is the condensed version. Rang at home at 22:30 on a Friday and asked if I and a couple of others could go and do a job on a Canberra stuck in Portugal. Foolishly I volunteered. So 01:00 Saturday we left Wyton for Lyneham where we jumped on a Herc. Flew to Oporto Airport in Portugal and spent three hours on the pan fixing the Aircraft and seeing it off. Surprised to find we were then going to Gibraltar and not Lyneham. Landed at Gibraltar where everything was shut for Siesta and we were left alone on the pan for three or more hours. Finally flew back to the UK. Arrived Wyton Sunday 02:30 having been to two Countries and saw two airfields. During that time we never had sight of a Bar or even any ‘Duty Frees’. To say it was a disappointing trip would be an understatement!
And lastly…
It was a Friday afternoon – isn’t it always a Friday afternoon?! 1979 and the Canberra Servicing Flight at Wyton has a Hangar full of T4, T17 and PR9 Canberra’s. The Chief is on Holiday for a fortnight, the Sergeant is going on holiday after cease work and I will be in charge of the Electrical section next week. Right, a cunning plan! Next week we will be short of Electricians so today I will try and get some of the niff-naff job cards done so that I can give myself more time to multi-task on whatever admin needs to be done next week as well as the normal Hangar jobs.
Trawling through all the out-standing job cards I managed to clear a few on the other Aircraft in the Hangar. I then came to the PR9 which was within a day or two of completion.
One of the jobs to be done during the latter part of a PR9 check was to see that the supply to the Engine start system (Avpin) was OK. This was done by removing one of the Hangar safety (dummy) fuses, refitting the proper fuse and pressing the start button. A test light in the disconnected start system plug would then come on. If all was OK then the fuse was removed and the dummy refitted. The plug was then connected, wire locked and the card could be signed off.
I noticed that the Starboard Engine start system card had been signed up but the Port Engine one had not. I asked if this job could be done and was told all the bits were back in and it could be tested
A slight digression to explain the pertinent details of a PR9. The fighter style canopy is off-set to the left. This leaves room for a large Fuel control and Engine start panel on the right hand console. The whole console is pivoted so it can swing outwards and downwards to reveal a pit that you can jump into with a little bit of jiggling about. A fuse panel is on the rear facing wall of this pit.
So off I go and get the test lamp and connect it up to the Port start system. I ask one of the riggers fitting some panels on the Starboard wing if he will look at the light to tell me if the system is OK. I then wiggle down into the pit and, looking aft, I fit the Port fuse (the Port & Starboard start fuses are adjacent to each other). Rather than wiggling out and looking to see what I am doing – and also to save a little bit of time - I half pull the panel up, reach up and round to blindly press the Port start switch.
A tremendous noise fills my world and reverberates round the Hangar! What on earth has happened? I am now acutely aware that the Starboard Engine start system worked successfully! I switch the Battery off and vacate the Aircraft. Luckily I had checked that the Fuel Cocks were shut and the other Hangar safety fuses were in place beforehand.
So what went wrong? With the benefit of hindsight the answer was easy. I was in a rush to get jobs done before people knocked off on the Friday afternoon. In my haste I made two wrongs that definitely did not make a right! Sitting in the pit looking aft I put the left hand fuse in. In my eyes it was the Port one but, as you have now gathered, it was the Starboard one. I tried to save a minute or two by not getting out of the pit to push the button and then have to get back in it to remove the live fuse and replace the dummy one and then wiggle back out again. So I remained in the Pit, still facing aft and reached up to press the start button furthest away. Again in my eyes this was the Port one.
For those who hadn’t heard the start cycle, which would have been no-one as the sound resonated really well inside the closed Hangar, the smell of spent Avpin would have also attracted people like moths to a flame. Avpin has a distinctive but not particularly nice smell so the Hangar doors were opened and a gathering of the curious ensued. Wingco Engineering happened to be in the area and asked what was going on. When told he apparently said two words “Charge him!”.
Meanwhile, back in the Hangar… As I knew what had happened, and had smelt enough spent Avpin from working on Lightnings, I did not need to stay with the gathering masses milling round the Aircraft. So I quietly walked away and over to the nearby ablutions. A fitting place to stand and ponder my career going down the toilet!
Nowadays there would be a Human Factors inquiry to see what lessons could be learnt and measures introduced to prevent it happening again. Obviously it would not have been my fault, it would have been the system or the procedures or the culture. Back then it was a slapped wrist and career limiting – or, more exactly in my case, career stagnation. And rightly so! I was a grown up doing a grown-ups job and I made a mistake. I was lucky that no one was hurt and it was only my pride and promotion that suffered. It could have been a lot worse!
Last edited by morton; 1st Mar 2012 at 07:01. Reason: add Year to MU time
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Hello Morton,
Many thanks for sharing your stories with the greater group and for the best wishes on the book. It's been a bit hectic of late, as I have been finishing off a series of virtual Canberras for Flight Sim 2004, of which are now complete and I can return to this worthy project!
For all those that have sent over photos, I will now have some time to devote to finishing up the clean-up and sending them back over to you. I have been adding your written contributions to the manuscript but will have to chase some of you down still for ranks, real names and locations!
LR and Harvest Reaper, cheers for all the details on ejection systems of late, and for filling me in on the early T.4. I had heard something about old leather seats in these, and some of the Aussies on the Canberra Crazy forum were mentioning their B.21s had them but I am not sure on this. Frankly it still seems amazing to me you can squeeze two bang seats in a Canberra pit let alone one, and that they even had inches to spare to shift the pupil pilot to the left. It blows my mind, yet I know it can be done as I had to 'make' this very modification when I made my virtual T.4. I wonder if Teddy Petter ever imagined this need would arise when I he laid out the A.1? Amazing foresight in his design.
Speaking of the T.4, we have heard several anecdotes about the bomb bay and even upper equipment bay being used for 'unorthodox' cargos- did anyone ever have experience of the T.4 nose cone ever being used for anything? From what I know, it seems it was always left essentially empty apart from the pitot head wiring and some box-looking objects.
Ok, all for now, I will back on here soon with a new line of questioning no doubt. By the way, does anyone know any former armourers that I could get in touch with? I am light on the weapons and stores aspect of things and would love to do some digging there.
Many thanks for sharing your stories with the greater group and for the best wishes on the book. It's been a bit hectic of late, as I have been finishing off a series of virtual Canberras for Flight Sim 2004, of which are now complete and I can return to this worthy project!
For all those that have sent over photos, I will now have some time to devote to finishing up the clean-up and sending them back over to you. I have been adding your written contributions to the manuscript but will have to chase some of you down still for ranks, real names and locations!
LR and Harvest Reaper, cheers for all the details on ejection systems of late, and for filling me in on the early T.4. I had heard something about old leather seats in these, and some of the Aussies on the Canberra Crazy forum were mentioning their B.21s had them but I am not sure on this. Frankly it still seems amazing to me you can squeeze two bang seats in a Canberra pit let alone one, and that they even had inches to spare to shift the pupil pilot to the left. It blows my mind, yet I know it can be done as I had to 'make' this very modification when I made my virtual T.4. I wonder if Teddy Petter ever imagined this need would arise when I he laid out the A.1? Amazing foresight in his design.
Speaking of the T.4, we have heard several anecdotes about the bomb bay and even upper equipment bay being used for 'unorthodox' cargos- did anyone ever have experience of the T.4 nose cone ever being used for anything? From what I know, it seems it was always left essentially empty apart from the pitot head wiring and some box-looking objects.
Ok, all for now, I will back on here soon with a new line of questioning no doubt. By the way, does anyone know any former armourers that I could get in touch with? I am light on the weapons and stores aspect of things and would love to do some digging there.
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Those were the days.
Hi Steve, It just so happens that I had recently started writing my RAF Life Story for my children when I came upon your posting here whilst doing some research.
After Boy Entrant training from 1952 to 1954 at RAF Yatesbury/Cosford I was posted to RAF Bassingbourn and the B2s in 1954. After that I spent most of my time on PR types, PR3 and T4 at RAF Merryfield and RAF Wyton. PR7 and PR9 on which I did the acceptance checks into service at RAF Wyton. At the same time I serviced Valiant B/K/PR1 of 543 Sqn and the Victor B/PR1s of Radar Recce Flight, later to become 51 Sqn. I was also on Christmas Island with 100 Sqn Canberra PR7s for Operation Grapple 'H' Bombs in 1957. At RAF Bruggen in Germany we had the PR7 and B(I)6, both of which I was involved with. I then left the Canberras after 13 years.
Upon returning from RAFG I went to RAF Marham TTF/232OCU on the Mk1 Victor Tankers for four years then on to RAF Kinloss as a Nimrod Crew Chief for six years. I was demobbed from there in 1977 on my 40th birthday.
I did my degree during those last few years, graduating in 1978. I worked for about a year at Marconi, Rochester on RAF/Naval Sonar systems, then lectured for the Aircraft Engineering Training Wing (REME) at Middle Wallop until promotion to the Royal School of Artillery, Air Defence Wing in 1981. There I remained until MOD forced my retirement in 1997.
In recent years I have read much about the USAAF 8th Air Force and RAF Bomber Command in general. My hobby is taking off in my caravan and visiting the old airfields of those two commands. To date, i have visited and photographed the memorials at 42 of the 69 8th Air Force airfields in UK. I visit RAF Bomber Command airfields when I see them but next year I hope to work through the various groups of the command as a whole. It is very interesting and I am sometimes amazed at what I find.
Well dear chap, my intention was to offer you full access to my life on Canberras but I seem to have moved into waffle mode. 'Once a lecturer always a lecturer' I suppose. Please feel free to contact me and I shall be happy to pass on any material you would like to have.
Take care all, Dave.
After Boy Entrant training from 1952 to 1954 at RAF Yatesbury/Cosford I was posted to RAF Bassingbourn and the B2s in 1954. After that I spent most of my time on PR types, PR3 and T4 at RAF Merryfield and RAF Wyton. PR7 and PR9 on which I did the acceptance checks into service at RAF Wyton. At the same time I serviced Valiant B/K/PR1 of 543 Sqn and the Victor B/PR1s of Radar Recce Flight, later to become 51 Sqn. I was also on Christmas Island with 100 Sqn Canberra PR7s for Operation Grapple 'H' Bombs in 1957. At RAF Bruggen in Germany we had the PR7 and B(I)6, both of which I was involved with. I then left the Canberras after 13 years.
Upon returning from RAFG I went to RAF Marham TTF/232OCU on the Mk1 Victor Tankers for four years then on to RAF Kinloss as a Nimrod Crew Chief for six years. I was demobbed from there in 1977 on my 40th birthday.
I did my degree during those last few years, graduating in 1978. I worked for about a year at Marconi, Rochester on RAF/Naval Sonar systems, then lectured for the Aircraft Engineering Training Wing (REME) at Middle Wallop until promotion to the Royal School of Artillery, Air Defence Wing in 1981. There I remained until MOD forced my retirement in 1997.
In recent years I have read much about the USAAF 8th Air Force and RAF Bomber Command in general. My hobby is taking off in my caravan and visiting the old airfields of those two commands. To date, i have visited and photographed the memorials at 42 of the 69 8th Air Force airfields in UK. I visit RAF Bomber Command airfields when I see them but next year I hope to work through the various groups of the command as a whole. It is very interesting and I am sometimes amazed at what I find.
Well dear chap, my intention was to offer you full access to my life on Canberras but I seem to have moved into waffle mode. 'Once a lecturer always a lecturer' I suppose. Please feel free to contact me and I shall be happy to pass on any material you would like to have.
Take care all, Dave.
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Dear Dave,
many thanks for getting in touch. I will duly send you a PM shortly with my email address for further contact, or we can continue posting on here as you wish.
I would love to hear more about your time with the Canberra, and so hopefully the questions I posted on the first page can serve as starting point for you, if need be. Above all, could you let me know your rank, job title and sqns served on for crediting in the book (sounds dangerously like a wartime interrogation, I know!)
I will say I am particularly interested in hearing more about your memories from Operation Grapple (you are the first in this project with this experience) and the B(I).6 at Bruggen. I assume then that you were on 213 Sqn for this; I am currently in contact with another ex-213 electrician and I wonder if your paths crossed. You also mentioned 51 Sqn, of course this always perks my ears - were the B.6 (mods) on strength then or was that after your time with them? Of course any and all Canberra-related stories are very much welcomed, these are just some of the salient points that jumped out at me from your post.
Like you, I have a fascination with 'ghost' or abandoned airfields, having grown up in Cambs. and with the same interest in the USAAF 8th AF. I think if I had stayed in the UK, I would have gone the same route as you with the caravan and trodden many a field in similar pursuits. My life has now taken a very different turn in the very different world of southern California over the last 8 years, but it is hobbies and projects like this that keep me in touch with my roots. Needless to say I am suitably envious of your own hobby! Now you have my 'waffle mode' as well! Perhaps we can have a separate chat about that and the things you have found.
Best regards,
Steve
many thanks for getting in touch. I will duly send you a PM shortly with my email address for further contact, or we can continue posting on here as you wish.
I would love to hear more about your time with the Canberra, and so hopefully the questions I posted on the first page can serve as starting point for you, if need be. Above all, could you let me know your rank, job title and sqns served on for crediting in the book (sounds dangerously like a wartime interrogation, I know!)
I will say I am particularly interested in hearing more about your memories from Operation Grapple (you are the first in this project with this experience) and the B(I).6 at Bruggen. I assume then that you were on 213 Sqn for this; I am currently in contact with another ex-213 electrician and I wonder if your paths crossed. You also mentioned 51 Sqn, of course this always perks my ears - were the B.6 (mods) on strength then or was that after your time with them? Of course any and all Canberra-related stories are very much welcomed, these are just some of the salient points that jumped out at me from your post.
Like you, I have a fascination with 'ghost' or abandoned airfields, having grown up in Cambs. and with the same interest in the USAAF 8th AF. I think if I had stayed in the UK, I would have gone the same route as you with the caravan and trodden many a field in similar pursuits. My life has now taken a very different turn in the very different world of southern California over the last 8 years, but it is hobbies and projects like this that keep me in touch with my roots. Needless to say I am suitably envious of your own hobby! Now you have my 'waffle mode' as well! Perhaps we can have a separate chat about that and the things you have found.
Best regards,
Steve
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Shifting topics a bit, I am a bit light for content in the following areas:
1) Did anyone here have experience with target tug flying (TT.18s, B.2s) or AI training with the T.11? I would love to hear something about these tasks, especially the latter, as it seems those with T.11/19 are hard to come by.
2) 51 Sqn ops with the B.6 (mod). I know, I know, the chances are slim of me getting anything on this, but I have to try.
3) Armourers. I have just been put in touch with a former 213 Sqn armourer, but would love to hear from any others lurking on this forum, particularly those that worked on the interdictor Canberras and the B.15/16.
4) Pilots who flew the interdictor Canberras and particularly any pilot that ever fired the 20mm gunpack.
5) Anyone who trained foreign aircrew on Canberras.
Ok, that will do for now, I have to list these areas as much for myself, so as to remember where I need to research next!
Steve
1) Did anyone here have experience with target tug flying (TT.18s, B.2s) or AI training with the T.11? I would love to hear something about these tasks, especially the latter, as it seems those with T.11/19 are hard to come by.
2) 51 Sqn ops with the B.6 (mod). I know, I know, the chances are slim of me getting anything on this, but I have to try.
3) Armourers. I have just been put in touch with a former 213 Sqn armourer, but would love to hear from any others lurking on this forum, particularly those that worked on the interdictor Canberras and the B.15/16.
4) Pilots who flew the interdictor Canberras and particularly any pilot that ever fired the 20mm gunpack.
5) Anyone who trained foreign aircrew on Canberras.
Ok, that will do for now, I have to list these areas as much for myself, so as to remember where I need to research next!
Steve
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One Monday morning en-route to Kinloss from St Mawgan via the Hebrides range in a TT18... We were streaming the Rushton, in cloud, while flying north parallelling the coast.
Happily listening to radio 1 on the ADF I heard those ominous crackling sounds.
I saw the lightning coming straight at me and it struck about 6 inches in front of the canopy, ran through the aircraft, down the cable and blasted the target to pieces.
The sequence as I remember it was a loud 'Bang', I said 'SH*T' rather loudly, the aircraft lurched violently and the ensueing silence was broken by a voice from the back saying 'are you still there'.
That was Monday, on Tuesday I returned from the range with a bird strike on the starboard tip tank. Wednesday another lightning strike. Guess it wasn't my week so Thursday instead of flying we did a full compass swing on the aircraft!!!
Friday returned to St Mawgan via the range without a problem.
I suppose streaming 5 miles of lightning conductor was asking for trouble!
Happily listening to radio 1 on the ADF I heard those ominous crackling sounds.
I saw the lightning coming straight at me and it struck about 6 inches in front of the canopy, ran through the aircraft, down the cable and blasted the target to pieces.
The sequence as I remember it was a loud 'Bang', I said 'SH*T' rather loudly, the aircraft lurched violently and the ensueing silence was broken by a voice from the back saying 'are you still there'.
That was Monday, on Tuesday I returned from the range with a bird strike on the starboard tip tank. Wednesday another lightning strike. Guess it wasn't my week so Thursday instead of flying we did a full compass swing on the aircraft!!!
Friday returned to St Mawgan via the range without a problem.
I suppose streaming 5 miles of lightning conductor was asking for trouble!
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Flipping heck, that is one cracking story, Joe! (excuse the pun). Yours is officially the first double lightning (and bird) strike anecdote of this project. Perhaps a dubious honour but exciting nonetheless to read about. You say you heard crackling sounds through the ADF - was this typical for entering electrical storms? Did you know there was a storm about when you entered the cloud? Whatever the case it must have been a sight seeing it coming at you. Was there any other damage to the electrical systems in the a/c as a result of either strike?
PM on its way now.
Steve
PM on its way now.
Steve
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To be honest had we had warning of electrical activity we wouldn't have streamed in cloud. There was no apparent damage from either strike apart from the small entry hole but we did the compass swing as a precaution. Kinloss did not have a suitable compass for the swing so we had to go to Lossiemouth to borrow one from 8 Sqn.
This involved a drive in the deployment vehicle (a Bedford CF) which had just been condemned as unroadworthy by the MT section and given back to us because there was no alternative. The instructions from the MTO were that we were authorised to use it, but if we got back without incident the paperwork was to be destroyed and the journey had never happened!
The trip up there was fine, we had a few beers with the Shackleton mates, went to the local chippy and drove back with several pints of beer in the back. Needless to say that because it was my fault I had to drive while the others did the drinking. The dip headlights failed on the way back and we drove on sidelights or full beam as appropriate. Beer got spilled in the back and there was a stink of fish and chips. When we reboarded it in the morning to go flying it was awful but the groundcrew (civilians from Airworks) cleaned it while we were flying and we were very grateful.
The compass swing was uneventful and none of the other instruments seemed to have suffered from the lightning, I suppose that is the advantage of mechanical aircraft rather than these modern electrical/computer beasts.
This involved a drive in the deployment vehicle (a Bedford CF) which had just been condemned as unroadworthy by the MT section and given back to us because there was no alternative. The instructions from the MTO were that we were authorised to use it, but if we got back without incident the paperwork was to be destroyed and the journey had never happened!
The trip up there was fine, we had a few beers with the Shackleton mates, went to the local chippy and drove back with several pints of beer in the back. Needless to say that because it was my fault I had to drive while the others did the drinking. The dip headlights failed on the way back and we drove on sidelights or full beam as appropriate. Beer got spilled in the back and there was a stink of fish and chips. When we reboarded it in the morning to go flying it was awful but the groundcrew (civilians from Airworks) cleaned it while we were flying and we were very grateful.
The compass swing was uneventful and none of the other instruments seemed to have suffered from the lightning, I suppose that is the advantage of mechanical aircraft rather than these modern electrical/computer beasts.
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While the lamp is still swinging
One Friday morning we were doing practice interceptions under the control of a Shackleton near Lundy Island when we got a message from 18 Group that a Russian submarine was being towed through the English Channel and they wanted photographs but couldn't locate it.
The Shackleton was retasked and repositioned to try and find it and the whole of 7 Sqn was tasked with getting photographs. We flew back to St Mawgan for lunch and refuel then launched to follow the others. Every aircraft we had was in the air, each equipped with any camera we could beg, borrow or steal and a pair of gyro stabilised binoculars. The sub was spotted and we all flew past taking our photos without compromising maritime distress signals by orbiting too many times.
On another occasion while having a few days in Gibraltar we were asked to stay on and shepherd 2 Hunters back to Brawdy, it was to be the end of the deployment for them. In the interim, four Russian Nanuchka fast patrol boats were transiting the straits and we were sent to find and photograph them. We launched seperately but met up with the Hunters and did a nice formation fly through the convoy. I got some good pictures of the Hunters up close and personal, I will have to see if I can find them.
For the transit to Brawdy there was a difference in our cruise speeds so the Hunters go airborne first and we chased them to Portugal, I flew at contrail level so they could see me and we joined and flew loose battle formation back to England using whichever Navigation equipment worked best for our location. We landed at Brawdy to drop off their luggage before returning to St Mawgan.
It seems that Gibraltar was different for me, on another occasion after a weekend on the rock we set off for home. As the Nav got a fix he asked me which way we were pointing and I read him the compass heading - which was as requested. After another 10 minutes he did another check and discovered that the compass was way out, I decided that we could not risk missing England on the way north using only the emergency compass. So we put out a Pan call, got no response, did it again and got an answer from a Hercules who relayed for me. Still no reponse so made a freecall warning all in the vicinity that I was turning south and descending to VFR below cloud. We didn't hit anything but when we did sight land it was Tunis airport in our 10 o'clock position, a quick left turn and a coastal crawl got us safely back to Gibraltar.
I spoke to the Sqn and they decided to send a shepherd aircraft out the next day, it arrived and was found to have a leaking nose oleo so a third aircraft was despatched with a spare oleo.
Now we had 3 aircraft I was in a TT18, there was a T4 and a T19.
The T19 didn't have tip tanks so was limited on fuel. There was low cloud at about 600 ft so we would leave as a 30 second stream with me sandwiched between the T19 in the lead and the T4 behind. I got airborne and had a noswheel red so kept the speed down and called the problem. The T19 said goodbye, he didn't have fuel to loiter, the T4 had overtaken me in cloud as I found out when we both burst into sunlight at 2000ft. We circled the rock while he checked if I was clean, which I was. We set off in trail of the T19 about 200 miles behind. Spanish air traffic would not accept that we were now 2 entities and insisted on giving clearances to the leader, we flew very carefully at intermediate levels throught he airways.
When we reached the UK the weather was poor with lots of cloud so the only way I could descend safely was in close formation with the T4. If I lost him I was in big trouble. We flew a pairs cloud penetration and he dropped me on short finals at St Mawgan, I was very grateful that the pilot in the T4 was one of the most experienced pilots on the Sqn. I didn't mention that I had never flown close formation in the Canberra before!!!
Now that reminds be about a trip to Cyprus...but maybe I'll save that for later.
One Friday morning we were doing practice interceptions under the control of a Shackleton near Lundy Island when we got a message from 18 Group that a Russian submarine was being towed through the English Channel and they wanted photographs but couldn't locate it.
The Shackleton was retasked and repositioned to try and find it and the whole of 7 Sqn was tasked with getting photographs. We flew back to St Mawgan for lunch and refuel then launched to follow the others. Every aircraft we had was in the air, each equipped with any camera we could beg, borrow or steal and a pair of gyro stabilised binoculars. The sub was spotted and we all flew past taking our photos without compromising maritime distress signals by orbiting too many times.
On another occasion while having a few days in Gibraltar we were asked to stay on and shepherd 2 Hunters back to Brawdy, it was to be the end of the deployment for them. In the interim, four Russian Nanuchka fast patrol boats were transiting the straits and we were sent to find and photograph them. We launched seperately but met up with the Hunters and did a nice formation fly through the convoy. I got some good pictures of the Hunters up close and personal, I will have to see if I can find them.
For the transit to Brawdy there was a difference in our cruise speeds so the Hunters go airborne first and we chased them to Portugal, I flew at contrail level so they could see me and we joined and flew loose battle formation back to England using whichever Navigation equipment worked best for our location. We landed at Brawdy to drop off their luggage before returning to St Mawgan.
It seems that Gibraltar was different for me, on another occasion after a weekend on the rock we set off for home. As the Nav got a fix he asked me which way we were pointing and I read him the compass heading - which was as requested. After another 10 minutes he did another check and discovered that the compass was way out, I decided that we could not risk missing England on the way north using only the emergency compass. So we put out a Pan call, got no response, did it again and got an answer from a Hercules who relayed for me. Still no reponse so made a freecall warning all in the vicinity that I was turning south and descending to VFR below cloud. We didn't hit anything but when we did sight land it was Tunis airport in our 10 o'clock position, a quick left turn and a coastal crawl got us safely back to Gibraltar.
I spoke to the Sqn and they decided to send a shepherd aircraft out the next day, it arrived and was found to have a leaking nose oleo so a third aircraft was despatched with a spare oleo.
Now we had 3 aircraft I was in a TT18, there was a T4 and a T19.
The T19 didn't have tip tanks so was limited on fuel. There was low cloud at about 600 ft so we would leave as a 30 second stream with me sandwiched between the T19 in the lead and the T4 behind. I got airborne and had a noswheel red so kept the speed down and called the problem. The T19 said goodbye, he didn't have fuel to loiter, the T4 had overtaken me in cloud as I found out when we both burst into sunlight at 2000ft. We circled the rock while he checked if I was clean, which I was. We set off in trail of the T19 about 200 miles behind. Spanish air traffic would not accept that we were now 2 entities and insisted on giving clearances to the leader, we flew very carefully at intermediate levels throught he airways.
When we reached the UK the weather was poor with lots of cloud so the only way I could descend safely was in close formation with the T4. If I lost him I was in big trouble. We flew a pairs cloud penetration and he dropped me on short finals at St Mawgan, I was very grateful that the pilot in the T4 was one of the most experienced pilots on the Sqn. I didn't mention that I had never flown close formation in the Canberra before!!!
Now that reminds be about a trip to Cyprus...but maybe I'll save that for later.
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Hello Joe,
brilliant stuff as always. It's been a bit of a busy couple of days at work, but I did get your email and thanks very much for that. I will send a proper reply to it, and these posts in the next few days. Needless to say I found these accounts very interesting, especially the latter one with the group return from Gib and three different variants in this group at that. The Bedford story was a good one too, as you say, very good of the Airwork personnel to have cleaned it up.
Anyway, heading to bed shortly, will reply in detail when there's more daylight
brilliant stuff as always. It's been a bit of a busy couple of days at work, but I did get your email and thanks very much for that. I will send a proper reply to it, and these posts in the next few days. Needless to say I found these accounts very interesting, especially the latter one with the group return from Gib and three different variants in this group at that. The Bedford story was a good one too, as you say, very good of the Airwork personnel to have cleaned it up.
Anyway, heading to bed shortly, will reply in detail when there's more daylight
Hello Steve,
I have been following this thread with fascination; you are getting some great stuff, so perhaps I can pitch in. I agree that the Canberra story has not yet been told properly, so your aim is spot on.
My only personal connection (despite 22 years in the RAF) is as a cadet spending an Easter camp at 231 OCU Bassingbourn in 1960 and being staggered by the number of Canerras littering the airfield. More importantly for you, I have a huge number of photographs, plus a number of very good friends with Canberrra experience. These include; a USAF engineer who worked on most B-57 variants, including a Vietnam tour; a navigator in the early days with Bomber Command squadrons at Upwood; and a pilot on 216 Squadron in RAFG with some amusing/alarming stories about the B(I).6 variant and its tactical nuclear role.
If any of this is of interest, please send me a private message rather than clogging up this thread.
Good luck and best regards
Steve Bond
I have been following this thread with fascination; you are getting some great stuff, so perhaps I can pitch in. I agree that the Canberra story has not yet been told properly, so your aim is spot on.
My only personal connection (despite 22 years in the RAF) is as a cadet spending an Easter camp at 231 OCU Bassingbourn in 1960 and being staggered by the number of Canerras littering the airfield. More importantly for you, I have a huge number of photographs, plus a number of very good friends with Canberrra experience. These include; a USAF engineer who worked on most B-57 variants, including a Vietnam tour; a navigator in the early days with Bomber Command squadrons at Upwood; and a pilot on 216 Squadron in RAFG with some amusing/alarming stories about the B(I).6 variant and its tactical nuclear role.
If any of this is of interest, please send me a private message rather than clogging up this thread.
Good luck and best regards
Steve Bond
Options 770 reminds me of two experiences. I was a(the on ly") first tourist on 360 when it formed, having been given a slightly truncated "Strike" course at Bassingbourn. About a year in with the T17s up and running we briefed for aan ECM sortie for 4 aircraft. End of the brief, "Any Questions" - Put my hand up and admitted that I had never flown the Canberra in formation. No problem came the reply - you fly in the slot. Interesting day.
Second one was a 6 ship airborne in the SWAPPS when we hera Shacks being diverted to Gibraltar or somweher, as the whole country was going out in fog. The exercise was cancelled and we were all recalled to St Mawgan, but I ended up at the top of the stack - only problem was that I was the only "whitecard" in the formation. By the time I started down the slope there was a cloudbase of 150'. By this time there were no diversions so it was "sh1t or bust". As a crew we agreed 100' on the radalt as the minimum; if we did not get in it would be 3 Martin Baker let-downs. Flew the best precision approach of my life, got the lights at 105', and shut down on the runway. I can still remember it like yesterday.
Only recently did I see the Det Cdr's name as one of the now deceased nuclear test veterans whose case for compensation was lost.
Second one was a 6 ship airborne in the SWAPPS when we hera Shacks being diverted to Gibraltar or somweher, as the whole country was going out in fog. The exercise was cancelled and we were all recalled to St Mawgan, but I ended up at the top of the stack - only problem was that I was the only "whitecard" in the formation. By the time I started down the slope there was a cloudbase of 150'. By this time there were no diversions so it was "sh1t or bust". As a crew we agreed 100' on the radalt as the minimum; if we did not get in it would be 3 Martin Baker let-downs. Flew the best precision approach of my life, got the lights at 105', and shut down on the runway. I can still remember it like yesterday.
Only recently did I see the Det Cdr's name as one of the now deceased nuclear test veterans whose case for compensation was lost.
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Steve, you are in no way clogging up this thread, indeed it sounds like you have some excellent contacts and a nice wide variety of roles and time periods that would be good for the book. I have yet to tap into the B-57 experience, so would love to hear from your friend in the USAF, along with the others. PM coming your way in a sec.
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Compass failure follow up
I have checked in the log book I have with me in Brussels and have flown with both Dalek and BSweeper. Of interest is the fact that on the Gib to UK compass failure, Dalek was the Navigator!!!
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Small world eh? Quite funny actually, but I have to admit I was wondering when paths would start to overlap. It is starting to happen on the RAAF side of things, now we have it in the RAF side too. So let's hear your combined memories of these incidents!