Vanguard
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Aer Lingus
For many years Aer Lingus was regarded by the UK manufacturers as a subsidiary of the Boeing marketing department.
It must have been the sea air that made them comfortable with a nice dose of corrosion. Same for ANZ, but they were less keen when their first 737s started rotting.
Panels machined from solid, plus the best corrosion protection in the business? Can't have that now, can we?
P.S. the 1-11 wasn't heavy: lighter than the equivalent DC-9s.
It must have been the sea air that made them comfortable with a nice dose of corrosion. Same for ANZ, but they were less keen when their first 737s started rotting.
Panels machined from solid, plus the best corrosion protection in the business? Can't have that now, can we?
P.S. the 1-11 wasn't heavy: lighter than the equivalent DC-9s.
Join Date: Nov 2005
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With Viscount 700 well launched by 1954 and Series 800 in hand, Vickers turned logically to a Viscount Major. Bristol's Orion was terminated, leaving Tyne as the sole UK big turboprop being schemed. TCA, happy Viscount user, showed interest in the dubble-bubble layout as a QC, pax upstairs daytime, freight below overnight. BEAC had no need for Richard Worcester to tell them that turbojets would be more expensive to operate than a turboprop, for little timetable benefit on short haul. The only civil-certified type had been Ghost; in 1955 Avon was coming on for BOAC Comet 4: the high cost of finite-life turbine discs might be recoverable over long haul, 2 cycles per day, but at 6 per day, the numbers could never work. So, Sud was out of their tree offering Avon/Caravelle I/III. With 20 Vanguards ordered by BEAC and 23 by TCA, Vickers, uniquely, did forego the UK Launch Aid deal (Treasury Loan repayable by Levy taking precedence over shareholders' profit) and funded it themselves.
But both Launch Customers were protected: CP, being commercially owned, had difficulty taking revenue from State-owned TCA; BEAC didn't suffer from the reciprocal carrier, such as AF to Paris, because all were State-owned, operating in Revenue Pools. So Vanguard could be "competitive" against Caravelle so long as passenger preference did not affect the cartel carve up of route revenue. But every other Viscount User except ANA+TAA had real, competitive routes, where jets mattered. Loss of Oz to Electra destroyed Vanguard's market credibility.
But both Launch Customers were protected: CP, being commercially owned, had difficulty taking revenue from State-owned TCA; BEAC didn't suffer from the reciprocal carrier, such as AF to Paris, because all were State-owned, operating in Revenue Pools. So Vanguard could be "competitive" against Caravelle so long as passenger preference did not affect the cartel carve up of route revenue. But every other Viscount User except ANA+TAA had real, competitive routes, where jets mattered. Loss of Oz to Electra destroyed Vanguard's market credibility.
Can't have been that bad. Aer Lingus operated both sizes of Viscount, pioneer One-Elevens (which lasted in the fleet for 25 years), and then introduced a substantial fleet of BAe146s, which, like the Boeings, have only gone in the last few years in favour of an all-Airbus fleet. Dublin Airport, the old Terminal A, in the late 1990s was a veritable mass of EI 146s at peak departure times.
The Vanguard had it's good points - fast, block times LHR- CDG of 1 Hour and a 20 tonne payload. Great cockpit - they used it again on the VC-10. But it also had some real drawbacks, like a nightmarish electrical system, no constant speed drives, so, frequency-wild AC (used for tailplane de-icing) then rectified for sundry other stuff and finally inverted to constant frequency AC for electronic purposes. All this performed in a huge electrical bay by massive banks of rotary inverters and TRU's. When things went wrong, a large ganged switch performed non-reversible load shedding, leaving one in almost total darkness and wondering where all those lovely instruments had gone.
The control forces were quite unbelievably heavy, so it had a two speed electric rudder trim. But a touch of high speed trim in the wrong sense for an EFTO would send one winging earthwards (thank goodness for simulators)
Deploying Climb Flap produced a vast trim change that would seemingly instantly elevate the aircraft 1000ft. This would also defeat the rather pathetic torque limited autopilot causing it's disengagement unless countered by judicious use of the two speed electric trim.
When converted to freighters, the floor was apparently stiffened, causing unexpected changes to the flexing of the fuselage in turbulence. This caused at certain frequencies of heavy chop, a diverging oscillation of such violence that 'eyeball bounce' was induced, (I hadn't heard of it either) resulting in one being unable to see any of the instruments or much else. This was all very terrifying to a young airman and my survival a testament to the strength of the aircraft. It was eventually resolved by inserting a spring in the elevator control rods of the correct stiffness.
An anecdote of a Base Training detail on the sale of the first aircraft to Merpati. On a demonstration of reversing under power, the BEA Training Capt. emphasised the importance of not using the brakes to stop, then invited the Indonesian Capt. to have a go. When told to stop, the trainee stamped on the brakes causing the nose to rise into the air. The trainer prevented the machine from settling on its tail by quick use of full power and then bollocked his embarrassed trainee. The trainee accepted all this with many bows of the head and 'Sorry Captains', then said 'Excuse me Capt' as he turned round to give his Merpati co-pilot sitting on the third seat a thorough slapping about the face.
The control forces were quite unbelievably heavy, so it had a two speed electric rudder trim. But a touch of high speed trim in the wrong sense for an EFTO would send one winging earthwards (thank goodness for simulators)
Deploying Climb Flap produced a vast trim change that would seemingly instantly elevate the aircraft 1000ft. This would also defeat the rather pathetic torque limited autopilot causing it's disengagement unless countered by judicious use of the two speed electric trim.
When converted to freighters, the floor was apparently stiffened, causing unexpected changes to the flexing of the fuselage in turbulence. This caused at certain frequencies of heavy chop, a diverging oscillation of such violence that 'eyeball bounce' was induced, (I hadn't heard of it either) resulting in one being unable to see any of the instruments or much else. This was all very terrifying to a young airman and my survival a testament to the strength of the aircraft. It was eventually resolved by inserting a spring in the elevator control rods of the correct stiffness.
An anecdote of a Base Training detail on the sale of the first aircraft to Merpati. On a demonstration of reversing under power, the BEA Training Capt. emphasised the importance of not using the brakes to stop, then invited the Indonesian Capt. to have a go. When told to stop, the trainee stamped on the brakes causing the nose to rise into the air. The trainer prevented the machine from settling on its tail by quick use of full power and then bollocked his embarrassed trainee. The trainee accepted all this with many bows of the head and 'Sorry Captains', then said 'Excuse me Capt' as he turned round to give his Merpati co-pilot sitting on the third seat a thorough slapping about the face.
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Dysag: anyone who professed that was juvenile. Viking, Viscount, SD360, 146. Between 1946 and 31/3/64 the British State, as BOAC/BEAC Associated Companies, owned a slice, from 40% to, IIRC c.13% of EI, when they were Launch Customer for F-27 over HPR.7 Herald - who would criticise that? They were an early Customer, after Britannia, for 737-200...who...ditto? Their order for 747-100 followed BOAC's. Any BritMoan of the 737/CFM-56 or 767 orders must present finer UK contemporary products. EI was, is, a highly competent engineering organisation, in the business of buying the best for the defined operation.
Join Date: Jan 2008
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A wonderful aeroplane. A spotting colleague once described the noise emitted as "The Sound of British Tin". GAPEF (Merpati) did about 2 weeks of circuits at 'NX in the early '70s. Every 7 minutes this fabulous noise was heard over our school. Also, memories of them on Amber One East reporting to Preston at Lichfield East prior to calling London Airways on 135.25 en-route Daventry, using the unmistakably, 'gravelly' Vanguard radio. 
Sadly, I never flew on a 'VC9', but managed the '8 and '10. The nose is slightly VC10 like.
Best wishes to all who designed, built and flew them.
We may not be very good at producing commercial successes in aviation here in the UK, but, hell, we are world leaders in producing classic airliners!
Thanks for some great pictures!
Sadly, I never flew on a 'VC9', but managed the '8 and '10. The nose is slightly VC10 like.
Best wishes to all who designed, built and flew them.
We may not be very good at producing commercial successes in aviation here in the UK, but, hell, we are world leaders in producing classic airliners!
Thanks for some great pictures!
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I help maintain G-APEP at Brooklands we ran 2 of the engines last Saturday 13/06/09 and they sounded great but my abiding memory of Vanguard in the 60s was the 3am arrival from Malta on Christmas morning when we were hoping for an "early trap" home to be greeted with 2 or more pages of snags in the "tech log" and the message "merry Xmas " under the last snag , the urge to throw the book after the Captain was overwelming 
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Vanguard Looks
How could anyone other than its mother call that aircraft beautiful?
What's the story of the livery in the third photo - the small BEA square?
What's the story of the livery in the third photo - the small BEA square?
As Zooker said - even the radios had an unmistakable sound with those big Rollers vibrating through the mic.
Never flew in one (got to fly in a CL-44 with 4 Tynes so I think I get the idea) but lived near, spent all my spare time at and eventually worked at LHR for a while during the Vanguard days so am more than familiar with them.
As for the small BEA square on the tail that was the original version of the red square livery until someone at BEA woke up to the fact it looked silly and unbalanced like that.
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Vanguard Looks
I remember going on EA at LHR Central in 1961 when it was in those old colours.
I thought at the time it was big after the Viscount I was the flying.
However 3 months later I was on the course at the Viking Centre by the Green Man . Then the Sim and Stansted to fly the thing.
I thought at the time it was big after the Viscount I was the flying.
However 3 months later I was on the course at the Viking Centre by the Green Man . Then the Sim and Stansted to fly the thing.
There is some footage of a BEA Vanguard in the BBC documentary "Jim Clark - The Quiet Champion" - available on iPlayer until Sat 25th June.
BBC iPlayer - Jim Clark: The Quiet Champion
BBC iPlayer - Jim Clark: The Quiet Champion
Join Date: Mar 2002
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more Vanguard memories
My passenger connection with the Vanguard goes back to 1962. - My second ever flight was a BEA Vanguard flight LHR/BCN, probably the 0010 departure as listed in WHBMs earlier post. - My first flight was on a BEA Viscount 806 EDI/ LHR the previous day, looking again at WHBMs post on LHR Vanguard schedules summer 1962, the LHR/EDI route had a 'gap' in the afternoon, this gap filled by V806s.Several Vanguard flights later, I rememer flying the LHR/MLA route in the summer 1971, this was the last year of service of PAX Vanguards to MLA with no real competition, as the flights were operated in association with the Malta Airlines , a BEA associated airline. - no connection with Air Malta which started in 1972.
Also in 1972 I remember flying into YUL from PIK on a BOAC flight and seeing a long line of parked-up AC Vanguards awaiting re-sale, all a bit sad. - The AC Viscounts were still however very active then.
My last ever Vanguard flight was over LHR/EDI in 1973. Trident 3s had taken over most of the flights on this route by this time, however to avoid the FEAR of landing at EDI by Trident on RWY13/31 (now 12/30) I elected to use the Vanguard!!
- Thanks to NORWICH for re-producing Colin Louries collection of Vanguards - happy days at EDI except when they diverted to GLA due X-winds!
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@etsd0001 - thanks for reproducing that article from Flight about flying the Vanguard. Reading it took me back to a lost era, when an ashtray and a place to put the Daily Telegraph were mod cons!
Ahhh - memories of my first ever flight as an airline passenger! BEA Vanguard from Gatwick to Gibraltar. Mid-week Tourist night flight being the cheapest option; we were going to Gib. as it was inside the Sterling area and got round some stupid government restriction....
Delayed at Gatwick due to an air conditioning snag. BEA said we could have a ham or a cheese sandwich, plus coffee or a coke. But not a ham sandwich and a coke unless we paid the extra (about 10d).....
My mother opened one of her duty-free cigarette packs during the wait - and some Himmler-clone from The Revenue pounced and demanded that duty was paid on the opened packet and that the 200 carton should be sealed. About half a crown, I think....
Finally out to the aeroplane, to find no seat allocation - so it took a bit of negotiation for parents to sit with their children. We set off to Gib at a sedate pace; of course a flight deck visit was allowed and I stayed there until top of drop for Gib.
Overnight in Gib, then the ferry to La Linea and a bus to Malaga through little villages such as Marbella, Fuengirola and Torremolinos. Then another bus to the villa we'd booked for our holiday at Almunecar.
Trip back was more fun; my mother had decided that she wasn't going on any more buses, so we went all the way in a Seat 600 my father had gone to Granada to collect....
Gib to Gatwick was another late night flight after the trip across the bay from La Linea where we'd dropped the Seiscientos. Of course the inbound passengers knew full well that no seats were pre-allocated, so there was a mad dash across the tarmac to grab the best seats.... We arrived at Gatwick at some early hour in rain and turbulence - then a long drive home to Somerset (looong before the days of the M3, of course...).
In those days you almost needed a holiday to recover from the holiday. But the Vanguard was immaculate in its BEA markings and the crew were very friendly and welcoming.
I'm so glad I was able to have flown in those days before the dumbing down of the following decades after 'package holidays' became all the rage...
Delayed at Gatwick due to an air conditioning snag. BEA said we could have a ham or a cheese sandwich, plus coffee or a coke. But not a ham sandwich and a coke unless we paid the extra (about 10d).....
My mother opened one of her duty-free cigarette packs during the wait - and some Himmler-clone from The Revenue pounced and demanded that duty was paid on the opened packet and that the 200 carton should be sealed. About half a crown, I think....
Finally out to the aeroplane, to find no seat allocation - so it took a bit of negotiation for parents to sit with their children. We set off to Gib at a sedate pace; of course a flight deck visit was allowed and I stayed there until top of drop for Gib.
Overnight in Gib, then the ferry to La Linea and a bus to Malaga through little villages such as Marbella, Fuengirola and Torremolinos. Then another bus to the villa we'd booked for our holiday at Almunecar.
Trip back was more fun; my mother had decided that she wasn't going on any more buses, so we went all the way in a Seat 600 my father had gone to Granada to collect....
Gib to Gatwick was another late night flight after the trip across the bay from La Linea where we'd dropped the Seiscientos. Of course the inbound passengers knew full well that no seats were pre-allocated, so there was a mad dash across the tarmac to grab the best seats.... We arrived at Gatwick at some early hour in rain and turbulence - then a long drive home to Somerset (looong before the days of the M3, of course...).
In those days you almost needed a holiday to recover from the holiday. But the Vanguard was immaculate in its BEA markings and the crew were very friendly and welcoming.
I'm so glad I was able to have flown in those days before the dumbing down of the following decades after 'package holidays' became all the rage...
Last edited by BEagle; 11th Jan 2016 at 11:04.
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An old (but not bold) Merchantman Capt once told me that his biggest gripe about the aircraft was the distance between the left and right hand seats, as he couldn't clip the FO around the earhole when he got it wrong.
From dim memory both the cockpits of the Vanguard and Comet would be best described as the ship's bridge, such were the palatial dimensions.
From dim memory both the cockpits of the Vanguard and Comet would be best described as the ship's bridge, such were the palatial dimensions.
