Vanguard
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Ahhhhh.....Vanguards
And |I thought I was the only one who loved Vanguards. Greetings to fellow devotees.
Early memories...Renfrew/Heathrow/Palma in the early sixties. All night flights...sometimes with an IB Metropolitan for the return trip. No wonder I became a plane enthusiast.
Then hearing the last EDI/LHR of the day flying over my school. It took my imagination flying with it.
Later - the ill-fated G-APEC to LHR followed by the equally ill-fated G-ARPI to Brussels. Return by Sabena 727-100 OO-TSB and Comet G-APMG.
Later still - G-APEC again to Salzburg. Return in one of those fabulous "table" seats to admire Tynes at full chat against a backdrop of snowy Alps. It doesn't get much better.
And finally...a frosty, moonlit night in Kensington and the sight of an Elan Merchantmen turning finals. Not a bad farewell.
So please, Vanguard geeks, post your pics and memories. Your fellow Vanguardistas are out here!
Oh, and with respects to Electra buffs, NOTHING about the L-188 eclipses the aristocratic nose, clean-cut tail and exquisite sound of the 951 and 953.
Goofer
Early memories...Renfrew/Heathrow/Palma in the early sixties. All night flights...sometimes with an IB Metropolitan for the return trip. No wonder I became a plane enthusiast.
Then hearing the last EDI/LHR of the day flying over my school. It took my imagination flying with it.
Later - the ill-fated G-APEC to LHR followed by the equally ill-fated G-ARPI to Brussels. Return by Sabena 727-100 OO-TSB and Comet G-APMG.
Later still - G-APEC again to Salzburg. Return in one of those fabulous "table" seats to admire Tynes at full chat against a backdrop of snowy Alps. It doesn't get much better.
And finally...a frosty, moonlit night in Kensington and the sight of an Elan Merchantmen turning finals. Not a bad farewell.
So please, Vanguard geeks, post your pics and memories. Your fellow Vanguardistas are out here!
Oh, and with respects to Electra buffs, NOTHING about the L-188 eclipses the aristocratic nose, clean-cut tail and exquisite sound of the 951 and 953.
Goofer
Here are the BEA Vanguard flights from Heathrow on a Friday in Summer 1962. Minimum of 13 aircraft required.
0010 BE 028 Barcelona
0215 BE 128 Milan
0600 BE 5006 Glasgow
0620 BE 6008 Belfast
0730 BE 4008 Manchester
0755 BE 6014 Belfast
0800 BE 336 Paris LBG
0810 BE 5366 Edinburgh
0820 BE 5014 Glasgow
0930 BE 4018 Manchester
0945 BE 865 Dublin
1000 BE 340 Paris LBG
1010 BE 5022 Glasgow
1200 BE 344 Paris LBG
1210 BE 5380 Edinburgh
1220 BE 6032 Belfast
1220 BE 196 Naples-Malta
1250 BE 4030 Manchester
1325 BE 062 Gibraltar
1330 BE 5036 Glasgow
1400 BE 348 Paris LBG
1450 BE 867 Dublin
1535 BE 4044 Manchester
1550 BE 6040 Belfast
1600 BE 354 Paris LBG
1700 BE 5050 Glasgow
1720 BE 6052 Belfast
1800 BE 356 Paris LBG
1820 BE 5404 Edinburgh
1840 BE 4052 Manchester
1920 BE 6060 Belfast
2000 BE 5062 Glasgow
2000 BE 360 Paris LBG
2010 BE 5410 Edinburgh
2050 BE 5058 Glasgow
2200 BE 364 Paris LBG
2300 BE 010 Palma
2330 BE 6072 Belfast
2340 BE 5076 Glasgow
2350 BE 5428 Edinburgh
0010 BE 028 Barcelona
0215 BE 128 Milan
0600 BE 5006 Glasgow
0620 BE 6008 Belfast
0730 BE 4008 Manchester
0755 BE 6014 Belfast
0800 BE 336 Paris LBG
0810 BE 5366 Edinburgh
0820 BE 5014 Glasgow
0930 BE 4018 Manchester
0945 BE 865 Dublin
1000 BE 340 Paris LBG
1010 BE 5022 Glasgow
1200 BE 344 Paris LBG
1210 BE 5380 Edinburgh
1220 BE 6032 Belfast
1220 BE 196 Naples-Malta
1250 BE 4030 Manchester
1325 BE 062 Gibraltar
1330 BE 5036 Glasgow
1400 BE 348 Paris LBG
1450 BE 867 Dublin
1535 BE 4044 Manchester
1550 BE 6040 Belfast
1600 BE 354 Paris LBG
1700 BE 5050 Glasgow
1720 BE 6052 Belfast
1800 BE 356 Paris LBG
1820 BE 5404 Edinburgh
1840 BE 4052 Manchester
1920 BE 6060 Belfast
2000 BE 5062 Glasgow
2000 BE 360 Paris LBG
2010 BE 5410 Edinburgh
2050 BE 5058 Glasgow
2200 BE 364 Paris LBG
2300 BE 010 Palma
2330 BE 6072 Belfast
2340 BE 5076 Glasgow
2350 BE 5428 Edinburgh
A Runyonesque Character
Join Date: Apr 2004
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How could anyone other than its mother call that aircraft beautiful?
What's the story of the livery in the third photo - the small BEA square? And interesting to see the BA-painted rudder on the French one.
What's the story of the livery in the third photo - the small BEA square? And interesting to see the BA-painted rudder on the French one.
I fondly remember them as a kid of 13 in Liverpool with my VHF skymaster airband having heard the likes of bee-line echo golf Lichfield 20 level 180 Wallasey 40, and knowing I only have 10 mins to wait to hear the fabulous noise of those RR Tynes from so far humming away as it makes it merry way up red 3 to Belfast,
It was a lovely heavy sound.
Nick.
It was a lovely heavy sound.
Nick.
In the '70s and '80s, I lived close to Castle Don., and these aeroplanes were a familiar sound, night and day. I seem to recall that in later years, there was a an early turn off the 09 centreline given specifically to this type on departure due to complaints from Kegworth residents.
One rumbled up the airway around midnight-ish, highly distinctive, and I'm guessing it was something out of Luton for Scotland.
I had a couple of pre-uni. summer jobs at EMA, and the ground runs on the compass base at full power were impressive, and seemed to last for hours.
My last encounter with one was when camping south west of Coventry, and one coming directly over the site on a two mile final on a still night. Goosebumps.
Utterly British, sadly missed.
One rumbled up the airway around midnight-ish, highly distinctive, and I'm guessing it was something out of Luton for Scotland.
I had a couple of pre-uni. summer jobs at EMA, and the ground runs on the compass base at full power were impressive, and seemed to last for hours.
My last encounter with one was when camping south west of Coventry, and one coming directly over the site on a two mile final on a still night. Goosebumps.
Utterly British, sadly missed.
Keith,
That's a very evocative shot of G-APEE, which crashed at Heathrow on 27 Oct 65 on a flight from Edinburgh: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19651027-0〈=en
That's a very evocative shot of G-APEE, which crashed at Heathrow on 27 Oct 65 on a flight from Edinburgh: http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19651027-0〈=en
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How could anyone other than its mother call that aircraft beautiful?
And interesting to see the BA-painted rudder on the French one.
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Bit of history
Somewhere in my "library" I have/had a report (? by a Mr. Worcester ?), possibly for BEA or Vickers, "proving" that the new-fangled jets, such as the Caravelle, could never be profitable, specially on short routes where their higher speed, making (perhaps) more rotations per day possible, could not earn more than a slower turbo-prop. To make sure, he calculated that the turbo-prop's passenger capacity also needed to be a bit higher than that of the French product.
It all looked fine in this analysis, and BEA duly ordered the Vanguard but passengers were more impressed by flying in a jet (quieter cabin ?) and the (not much) shorter flight times, at least on British internal routes. London - Nice was another matter, of course.
Not long afterwards, BEA reckoned that those routes couldn't be economical anyway, at least south of Scotland, I think, as rail would be faster.
As an afterthought, I always thought that the EAS "fleet", static at Perpignan, would have been ideal as a Shackleton replacement, but Coastal Command sooooo badly wanted jets like the big boys ...
It all looked fine in this analysis, and BEA duly ordered the Vanguard but passengers were more impressed by flying in a jet (quieter cabin ?) and the (not much) shorter flight times, at least on British internal routes. London - Nice was another matter, of course.
Not long afterwards, BEA reckoned that those routes couldn't be economical anyway, at least south of Scotland, I think, as rail would be faster.
As an afterthought, I always thought that the EAS "fleet", static at Perpignan, would have been ideal as a Shackleton replacement, but Coastal Command sooooo badly wanted jets like the big boys ...
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I took this photo on 22/03/71 during my very first flight,which was the BE5365 being operated by G-APEA from Edinburgh to Heathrow.I loved Vanguards,especially in the BEA re-square colour scheme.
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I too have fond memories of my one and only flight in a BEA Vanguard as a lad in May of 1968......G-APEO London to Amsterdam
Still have the "Flight Bulletin Form" which was passed around the cabin.
Captain Webster, First Steward Mr Lavers, Altitude 15000ft at 400 mph,
passing Clacton 20 minutes after take off, arriving AMS 50 minutes after take off.
I remember entering the aircraft and taking the first window seat on the left side of the aircraft which was an aft facing club style arrangement with a table set up between us and the second row which was forward facing.
Great view of those Tynes through those magnificent huge oval windows and it was a clear blue mid morning flight so great view of the channel and the tulip fields as we came into AMS
Still have the "Flight Bulletin Form" which was passed around the cabin.
Captain Webster, First Steward Mr Lavers, Altitude 15000ft at 400 mph,
passing Clacton 20 minutes after take off, arriving AMS 50 minutes after take off.
I remember entering the aircraft and taking the first window seat on the left side of the aircraft which was an aft facing club style arrangement with a table set up between us and the second row which was forward facing.
Great view of those Tynes through those magnificent huge oval windows and it was a clear blue mid morning flight so great view of the channel and the tulip fields as we came into AMS
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Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
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A few photos of the Brooklands Vanguard G-APEP
I live approx 2ml from the OLD SPEKE AIRPORT at Liverpool and even at that distance I could hear the old AIR BRIDGE CARRIERS and the BEA Vanguards/Merchantmen running their engines for T/O and just Taxying on the Airport. It was a very distinctive sound. And the Viscounts were passing over our house all the time and they had a unique sound, HAPPY DAY'S.
.
One still night, I listened to one start up, taxi to the 05 end at Teesside, and make a majestically heavy and booming departure close to where I stood. And I was around four miles from the airfield. Lining up, the aircraft would have been almost five miles distant.
There was something about the frequency of the noise of those props that commanded attention.
There was something about the frequency of the noise of those props that commanded attention.
Last edited by Midland 331; 26th May 2009 at 11:36.
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Not a beutiful aeroplane, but a handsome one. Guardsvan, Vickers Vibrator - I don't know, never having flown on one. But legend has it they were not as smooth as the Viscounts. I saw them frequently at Manchester in the '60s.
'USSR' is deffo a 'Dart' sound, not Tyne.
Once flew (standing up behind the P2) Man to Jersey on a Viscount - take off to landing - no jump seat!). Then a week later home on an F27 (G-BMAP), on the jump seat that time. The Viscount was smooth and quiet. The F27 a noisy shed. How could an aeroplane with half the number of Darts be 4 times as noisy?
Vickers got it right with the Viscount.
'USSR' is deffo a 'Dart' sound, not Tyne.
Once flew (standing up behind the P2) Man to Jersey on a Viscount - take off to landing - no jump seat!). Then a week later home on an F27 (G-BMAP), on the jump seat that time. The Viscount was smooth and quiet. The F27 a noisy shed. How could an aeroplane with half the number of Darts be 4 times as noisy?
Vickers got it right with the Viscount.
A Runyonesque Character
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I used to work with an (ex) long serving Chief Pilot of Aer Lingus, who had a few things to say about the Viscount - that it was a lousy design only kept in the air by the excellence of its engines.
His take on the One-Eleven was that it was over-engineered to the point of indestructibility ('machined out of a solid block of aluminium') and consequently a hopelessly uneconomical prospect for BAC. Can't imagine what he would have said about the 146.
His take on the One-Eleven was that it was over-engineered to the point of indestructibility ('machined out of a solid block of aluminium') and consequently a hopelessly uneconomical prospect for BAC. Can't imagine what he would have said about the 146.