Vulcan XH 558 Threads (merged)
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Well boys and girls get yourself along to the VTST website and see the budget for 2008/9.
In a nutshell:
Income = £1.049m
Expenses = £1.877m excluding some other unspecified costs
Shortfall = £828,000
By any stretch of the imagination, this is an insolvent organisation if they continue to take credit from suppliers. Digest and discuss....
In a nutshell:
Income = £1.049m
Expenses = £1.877m excluding some other unspecified costs
Shortfall = £828,000
By any stretch of the imagination, this is an insolvent organisation if they continue to take credit from suppliers. Digest and discuss....
Join Date: Jul 2007
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That pie chart was first published on the Home Page as a feature back in November (approx).
It was a projection and hence why they came up with the Pledge Campaign to plug the shortfall.
It is also the reason why they can't trade past March if the Pledge fund does not reach a level to leave them in a financially viable postion.
That's it - in a nutshell - discussed!
It was a projection and hence why they came up with the Pledge Campaign to plug the shortfall.
It is also the reason why they can't trade past March if the Pledge fund does not reach a level to leave them in a financially viable postion.
That's it - in a nutshell - discussed!
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Latest news on the project in both written and "podcast" form:
Vulcan XH558 "Turn and Burn" Event Feature Report By UKAR
Vulcan XH558 "Turn and Burn" Event Feature Report By UKAR
Join Date: Aug 2007
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i'm gonna stick my head above the parapet again here.
please i'm not an accountant so bear with me.
31st July 2007. closing funds VTTST £2.2 million.
no figures available for 2008 as they are late again.
every year of accounts available a surplus was generated
From the pie chart i see a sponsorship from VTSE of £250K.
i would like to know please is the VTTST sitting on a wedge of cash and not releasing the accounts so we can't see it untill we have all stumped up the maximum.
simple question, what is the real state of finances in the VTTST.
and by the way i,m not pointing fingers here at anyone or suggesting any kind of impropriety by anyone at all.
regards
Geoff
please i'm not an accountant so bear with me.
31st July 2007. closing funds VTTST £2.2 million.
no figures available for 2008 as they are late again.
every year of accounts available a surplus was generated
From the pie chart i see a sponsorship from VTSE of £250K.
i would like to know please is the VTTST sitting on a wedge of cash and not releasing the accounts so we can't see it untill we have all stumped up the maximum.
simple question, what is the real state of finances in the VTTST.
and by the way i,m not pointing fingers here at anyone or suggesting any kind of impropriety by anyone at all.
regards
Geoff
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Bye,
I do not know the answer to your question directly.
To me, it is not about any such cash, but a realisation that there is a shortfall over known forthcoming overheads. What is "cash in hand" would only go to paying Creditors, so has no bearing on the facts:
The figures clearly show there is a shortfall this year of some £830,000
That is what they are trying to cover - and I'm sure not to dupe anyone into paying over money when non is needed.
Fail to get it covered and they go out of business.
Now, anyone going to pledge to help save XH558 for Britain?
www.vulcantothesky.com
Cheers,
FS.
I do not know the answer to your question directly.
To me, it is not about any such cash, but a realisation that there is a shortfall over known forthcoming overheads. What is "cash in hand" would only go to paying Creditors, so has no bearing on the facts:
The figures clearly show there is a shortfall this year of some £830,000
That is what they are trying to cover - and I'm sure not to dupe anyone into paying over money when non is needed.
Fail to get it covered and they go out of business.
Now, anyone going to pledge to help save XH558 for Britain?
www.vulcantothesky.com
Cheers,
FS.
Join Date: Aug 2007
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FS thanks for your reply.
However, if you have cash in hand to cover the potential shortfall you are not insolvent and therefore will not go out of business.
cash in hand to pay the creditors is only relevant when the company is wound up or in administration.
If there is enough money to pay the creditors then the business is not insolvent at all.
If there is cash in hand to the tune of £830K then there is no shortfall.
If there is 1.6 million then the shortfall is covered for the next 2 years etc etc.
yes there will be next year when all the cash in hand is gone, but not this year.
more than happy to CONTINUE to donate MORE of my money to the vulcan when i know where my money is going.
regards
Geoff
However, if you have cash in hand to cover the potential shortfall you are not insolvent and therefore will not go out of business.
cash in hand to pay the creditors is only relevant when the company is wound up or in administration.
If there is enough money to pay the creditors then the business is not insolvent at all.
If there is cash in hand to the tune of £830K then there is no shortfall.
If there is 1.6 million then the shortfall is covered for the next 2 years etc etc.
yes there will be next year when all the cash in hand is gone, but not this year.
more than happy to CONTINUE to donate MORE of my money to the vulcan when i know where my money is going.
regards
Geoff
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I can't help feeling that the cost and income forecast that has been published would be more useful if it was an updated one rather than one last updated on Nov 12th. Then donations and pledges since then and the associated gift aid could be shown and maybe(we can all live in hope) the picture would not appear so gloomy.
I feel frustrated by the paucity of information coming from the trust.
I feel frustrated by the paucity of information coming from the trust.
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Well, all I can tell everyone is:
There is no money for heating oil for the hangar, no money for the fuel in the Scamble car this weekend, (the Club members are paying) and no money for stationery or petty cash in the office.
Sounds like the Trust are really flush with cash to me.
If I can't convince you otherwise, then I can't think of anyway else to put it. THEY ARE CURRENTLY BROKE! - HAVE DIDDLY SQUAT! - LIVING DAY to DAY.
Are we at least going to try to save the situation for this year and see what happens to improve matters or just throw in the towel and see XH558 go out to sunny Florida?
Cheers,
FS.
There is no money for heating oil for the hangar, no money for the fuel in the Scamble car this weekend, (the Club members are paying) and no money for stationery or petty cash in the office.
Sounds like the Trust are really flush with cash to me.
If I can't convince you otherwise, then I can't think of anyway else to put it. THEY ARE CURRENTLY BROKE! - HAVE DIDDLY SQUAT! - LIVING DAY to DAY.
Are we at least going to try to save the situation for this year and see what happens to improve matters or just throw in the towel and see XH558 go out to sunny Florida?
Cheers,
FS.
Kermit Weeks would welcome her I bet, be a strain on the turf though...
Polk City Fantasy Of Flight Runway Information
Runway 4/22
Dimensions: 5090 x 125 ft. / 1551 x 38 mSurface: turf
Traffic pattern: left
Runway 14/32
Dimensions: 2500 x 100 ft. / 762 x 30 mSurface: turf
Traffic pattern: left
Polk City Fantasy Of Flight Runway Information
Runway 4/22
Dimensions: 5090 x 125 ft. / 1551 x 38 mSurface: turf
Traffic pattern: left
Runway 14/32
Dimensions: 2500 x 100 ft. / 762 x 30 mSurface: turf
Traffic pattern: left
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If ever TVOC want to look at themselves and compare with a very happy bunch of supporters/donors them then should look here The A1 Steam Locomotive Trust
This is how it's done - open, honest, transparent = happy supporters/donors = regular funding.
Shame the VTTS Trustees don't see this really.
This is how it's done - open, honest, transparent = happy supporters/donors = regular funding.
Shame the VTTS Trustees don't see this really.
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This really is 'last chance saloon' time for 558. 
To all those who have not thought too much about it - NOW is the time to act and do something constructive and make a pledge to save her !! Time is rapidly running out !!
We can not let her be grounded/mothballed or sold - it would be absolutely heartbreaking to all those involved in the project from it's outset. The Engineers spilt blood, sweated,cursed and busted thier guts to get 558 to as many shows in 2008 as was possible. Attendances were up by some 20% wherever she appeared... she needs a second season in the air, and another chance to get the sponsorship she duly deserves.
For the sake of the only flying Vulcan on the entire planet...... PLEASE MAKE A PLEDGE and save this wonderful iconic piece of English Heritage.
Bitching and arguing about how things are currently run etc... is a waste of energy at this current point. The iminent destiny of 558 is what matters to me.
I just find it odd that folks who supposedly 'love all things aviation' are at loggerheads and can't be bothered to lob in a few quid to save 1 iconic aircraft.
(JMO and an observation... having watched this thread for the last few weeks)
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/
To all those who have not thought too much about it - NOW is the time to act and do something constructive and make a pledge to save her !! Time is rapidly running out !!
We can not let her be grounded/mothballed or sold - it would be absolutely heartbreaking to all those involved in the project from it's outset. The Engineers spilt blood, sweated,cursed and busted thier guts to get 558 to as many shows in 2008 as was possible. Attendances were up by some 20% wherever she appeared... she needs a second season in the air, and another chance to get the sponsorship she duly deserves.
For the sake of the only flying Vulcan on the entire planet...... PLEASE MAKE A PLEDGE and save this wonderful iconic piece of English Heritage.
Bitching and arguing about how things are currently run etc... is a waste of energy at this current point. The iminent destiny of 558 is what matters to me.
I just find it odd that folks who supposedly 'love all things aviation' are at loggerheads and can't be bothered to lob in a few quid to save 1 iconic aircraft.
(JMO and an observation... having watched this thread for the last few weeks)
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/
Join Date: Feb 2001
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All very sad and sounds like a badly run business.
I popped up to Cottesmore when they were doing some of the test flights last year. There must have been over a thousand people there, but none of the TVOC staff (Numbering over 15 according to the BBC) could be seen on our side of the fence.
This was the perfect opportunity to raise some funds, just about everyone there would have given them a tenner, they did not even set up they merchandising stall in the main spotters car park.
There seems in my view to have been a lot of basing in the limelight and appeal after appeal for easy money rather than getting stuck in and getting the money in by hand.
Anyway Rant over. I've pledged another chunk of dosh to them, if they can survive this year then maybe there is a future, but the way its run does need to chance.
TVOC have done a fantastic job getting her back in the air, but this is a business to be run where hard decisions need to be made and sometimes sentiments get in the way.
I popped up to Cottesmore when they were doing some of the test flights last year. There must have been over a thousand people there, but none of the TVOC staff (Numbering over 15 according to the BBC) could be seen on our side of the fence.
This was the perfect opportunity to raise some funds, just about everyone there would have given them a tenner, they did not even set up they merchandising stall in the main spotters car park.
There seems in my view to have been a lot of basing in the limelight and appeal after appeal for easy money rather than getting stuck in and getting the money in by hand.
Anyway Rant over. I've pledged another chunk of dosh to them, if they can survive this year then maybe there is a future, but the way its run does need to chance.
TVOC have done a fantastic job getting her back in the air, but this is a business to be run where hard decisions need to be made and sometimes sentiments get in the way.
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Pujgnie,
We have all collectively "lobbed in" millions.
That's what was said every year for 3 years or so and it needs to be dealt with, just like the last few years. If she is to fly then do it on a sustainable basis not through cry wolf appeals every month or so.
We have all collectively "lobbed in" millions.
Bitching and arguing about how things are currently run etc... is a waste of energy at this current point.
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Makes life more interesting though Andrew!
From what Doc Bob said in the interview on UKAR (am i allowed to mention them here?) it would appear he is aware that changes need to made and though there have been allready still needs more though, that said im still supporting the whole project as if we dont make the March 6th dealine then there wont be anything left to change.
From what Doc Bob said in the interview on UKAR (am i allowed to mention them here?) it would appear he is aware that changes need to made and though there have been allready still needs more though, that said im still supporting the whole project as if we dont make the March 6th dealine then there wont be anything left to change.
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Bubbles,
thats a fair point, but just like the project needs pledges of cash for survival, maybe we could get a similar pledge from Dr P of needed changes should the cash be forthcoming??
You never know, it might just be enough for some people to change their minds and cough up eh??
Winco
thats a fair point, but just like the project needs pledges of cash for survival, maybe we could get a similar pledge from Dr P of needed changes should the cash be forthcoming??
You never know, it might just be enough for some people to change their minds and cough up eh??
Winco
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Winco
Good point, for some of us who know various members of T.V.O.C. or have had recent dealings such as Saracenman and to a lesser degree myself its clear theres been changes, but for those who havent then its less clear. In his interview Doc Bob did acknowledge that changes were needed and a better buisness plan needed, or words to that effect so perhaps a pledge would be a good thing.
Good point, for some of us who know various members of T.V.O.C. or have had recent dealings such as Saracenman and to a lesser degree myself its clear theres been changes, but for those who havent then its less clear. In his interview Doc Bob did acknowledge that changes were needed and a better buisness plan needed, or words to that effect so perhaps a pledge would be a good thing.
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The Scramble Team did brilliantly 
and raised much needed publicity and £56k in pledges
No doubt some here - still have issues over the way TVOC is run. Can I just ask that those 'issues' are temporaily put aside in the comming days - and please focus on what is important - Vulcan XH558.
Does ANYONE here REALLY want to see her grounded forever ????? I don't honestly think so...... She is a show stopper, and an Icon.
Please have a heart and hit the Pledge Button here : Vulcan to the Sky Trust - Avro Vulcan Bomber XH558 - Vulcan To The Sky Trust
It is now or never !!
Thanks
and raised much needed publicity and £56k in pledges No doubt some here - still have issues over the way TVOC is run. Can I just ask that those 'issues' are temporaily put aside in the comming days - and please focus on what is important - Vulcan XH558.
Does ANYONE here REALLY want to see her grounded forever ????? I don't honestly think so...... She is a show stopper, and an Icon.
Please have a heart and hit the Pledge Button here : Vulcan to the Sky Trust - Avro Vulcan Bomber XH558 - Vulcan To The Sky Trust
It is now or never !!
Thanks
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Pujgnie
Sadly it's been now or never about 20 times and personally I am tired of hearing it. I hope she flies and I hope it all works out but until their is either "regime change" or total open, honest and frank insight AND a sustainable plan then I am afraid I won't donate another penny. Same arguments every year, nothing has changed.
It is now or never !!