Argonaut/North Star Memories and Observations
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Argonauts and North Stars
I well remember the Argonaut and North Stars that Overseas Aviation operated. For a short while before they went bust I worked for them at Gatwick. What an airline! talk about a shoe string operation. Friday afternoon was engine change time. The aircraft going the furthest had to have the engines with the most flying hours left on it. So various aircraft were pulled up and engines changed.
If Ronald Myhill the Chairman had got his head screwed on correctly then the possibility of the airline continuing and going places could have been assured. He could'nt even present accounts of the company to the creditors at their meeting after the airline had gone bust. His answer, and I quote, "it was due to shortage of staff and lack of time".
However the arrival of the North Stars were a sight to be seen a bit like a bomber sqd. returning from an operation.
North Stars littered the taxiway outside the Overseas hangar, of course along with the Vickers Vikings plus a few Herons.
If Ronald Myhill the Chairman had got his head screwed on correctly then the possibility of the airline continuing and going places could have been assured. He could'nt even present accounts of the company to the creditors at their meeting after the airline had gone bust. His answer, and I quote, "it was due to shortage of staff and lack of time".
However the arrival of the North Stars were a sight to be seen a bit like a bomber sqd. returning from an operation.
North Stars littered the taxiway outside the Overseas hangar, of course along with the Vickers Vikings plus a few Herons.
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tarrant
'What an airline! talk about a shoe string operation'
I remember them well. Your hangar was one down towards British United from ours Air Couriers.
Mel
I remember them well. Your hangar was one down towards British United from ours Air Couriers.
Mel
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QUOTE
I understand it was that that caused the Stockport crash - it led to the crew not being aware that certain tanks were being drained, and this resulted in fuel starvation to the engines.
UNQUOTE
So some said. The fuel transfer systen was identical to that used in the DC-2, DC-3, DC-4, DC-6, DC-7, DC-8, and DC-9 (with controls being manual in all but the last two, which were electric). That is my recollection. There was evidence at the Inquiry that at start-up the ground crew reported less than full outer tanks as measured by dipstick, but it had been disregarded.
I understand it was that that caused the Stockport crash - it led to the crew not being aware that certain tanks were being drained, and this resulted in fuel starvation to the engines.
UNQUOTE
So some said. The fuel transfer systen was identical to that used in the DC-2, DC-3, DC-4, DC-6, DC-7, DC-8, and DC-9 (with controls being manual in all but the last two, which were electric). That is my recollection. There was evidence at the Inquiry that at start-up the ground crew reported less than full outer tanks as measured by dipstick, but it had been disregarded.
Thread Starter
>So some said. The fuel transfer systen was identical to that used in the DC-2, DC-3, DC-4, DC-6, DC-7, DC-8, and DC-9 (with controls being manual in all but the last two, which were electric). That is my recollection. There was evidence at the Inquiry that at start-up the ground crew reported less than full outer tanks as measured by dipstick, but it had been disregarded.
As per my initial post at the top of the thread, I have a relative who worked and flew on them, so would like to think my information source is reliable.
The fuel transfer problem was certainly known of, but "a rather large hole in the cheese", waiting to catch the unwary or fatigued. Palma-Manchester was over four and a half hours in one of these machines.
I also understand that another Argonaut (-HY?) was sent to Boscombe Down for evaluation by the RAE and "Board of Trade", and loaded to emulate the Stockport situation, and the loss of control under asymettric conditions was significant.
It is difficult to describe the effect that such a major loss had on a (then)small and close-knit organisation.
r
As per my initial post at the top of the thread, I have a relative who worked and flew on them, so would like to think my information source is reliable.
The fuel transfer problem was certainly known of, but "a rather large hole in the cheese", waiting to catch the unwary or fatigued. Palma-Manchester was over four and a half hours in one of these machines.
I also understand that another Argonaut (-HY?) was sent to Boscombe Down for evaluation by the RAE and "Board of Trade", and loaded to emulate the Stockport situation, and the loss of control under asymettric conditions was significant.
It is difficult to describe the effect that such a major loss had on a (then)small and close-knit organisation.
r
Last edited by Midland 331; 5th Mar 2007 at 10:04.
Death Cruiser Flight Crew
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A film of these test flights was made and shown on television. D.P. Davies, the Chief Test Pilot of the ARB, was shown practically standing up in the seat to maintain directional control, when the conditions of the accident were replicated. The amount of misalignment of the fuel cocks which allowed inadvertent fuel transfer was found to be only the thickness of a pencil.
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QUOTE
As per my initial post at the top of the thread, I have a relative who worked and flew on them, so would like to think my information source is reliable.
UNQUOTE
I attended every day of the public inquiry. The captain survived but with amnesia as to the material times. There was evidence that there were more passengers on board than there were seats, and of an unqualified "flight engineer" who was seen operating overhead switches in the final moments. His experience had been limited to a short time in the RAF, in which he had worked as an officers' mess steward. At the time of the final sudden vertical or near-vertical fall, according to a graphic representation reconstructed from the black box and demonstrated at the inquiry, the aircraft was flying at less than stalling speed, but the implications of that evidence were not drawn to the attention of the inquiry. That evidence was consistent with the high incidence of compression spinal fractures among the dead. That is why the aircraft managed to impact in one of the few, perhaps the only, (and of necessity small) open spaces in the middle of an urban area without hitting buildings on a glide in. Indeed, again as I recall over the years, one of the recommendations of the inquiry report, addressing that very point, was that passengers should be seated on some sort of hammock that would distribute shock, rather than seats. That was certainly discussed. It appeared that one engine quit, and a "wrong" engine was feathered, thus putting two engines out at a critical time.
As per my initial post at the top of the thread, I have a relative who worked and flew on them, so would like to think my information source is reliable.
UNQUOTE
I attended every day of the public inquiry. The captain survived but with amnesia as to the material times. There was evidence that there were more passengers on board than there were seats, and of an unqualified "flight engineer" who was seen operating overhead switches in the final moments. His experience had been limited to a short time in the RAF, in which he had worked as an officers' mess steward. At the time of the final sudden vertical or near-vertical fall, according to a graphic representation reconstructed from the black box and demonstrated at the inquiry, the aircraft was flying at less than stalling speed, but the implications of that evidence were not drawn to the attention of the inquiry. That evidence was consistent with the high incidence of compression spinal fractures among the dead. That is why the aircraft managed to impact in one of the few, perhaps the only, (and of necessity small) open spaces in the middle of an urban area without hitting buildings on a glide in. Indeed, again as I recall over the years, one of the recommendations of the inquiry report, addressing that very point, was that passengers should be seated on some sort of hammock that would distribute shock, rather than seats. That was certainly discussed. It appeared that one engine quit, and a "wrong" engine was feathered, thus putting two engines out at a critical time.
Thread Starter
Thanks very much.
Just for the record, my source was a fully-certified Merlin engineer, and was eventually quite senior in the engineering set-up at Castle Don.
Thanks for the infomation.
Having visited the site, I'd always wondered about how the crash area was so confined. It really is in a built-up urban area.
As well as the memorial to the crew and passengers, there is now an additional plaque acknowledging the bravery of the rescuers. The BBC did a feature on the accident a couple of years ago in one of their regional documentary magazines.
r
Just for the record, my source was a fully-certified Merlin engineer, and was eventually quite senior in the engineering set-up at Castle Don.
Thanks for the infomation.
Having visited the site, I'd always wondered about how the crash area was so confined. It really is in a built-up urban area.
As well as the memorial to the crew and passengers, there is now an additional plaque acknowledging the bravery of the rescuers. The BBC did a feature on the accident a couple of years ago in one of their regional documentary magazines.
r
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.......... according to a graphic representation reconstructed from the black box and demonstrated at the inquiry,
First commercial aircraft fit was the Trident.
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Be assured, wherever they got them from, and my recollection is that they came from in-flight records, the authorities presented two large graphic demonstrations on easels, one in azimuth and one in altitude.
The trace in azimuth showed the aircraft wander in an irregular track as the crew met and pretty much overcame each successive problem in a series: the first engine cut out from starvation; the second from indvertent feathering; loss of airspeed; probable hand-over from the first officer to the captain; and so on. The vertical trace showed gradual fairly regular loss of altitude and at the end a sudden drop into a near-vertical fall.
As is mandatory in such events, the crash in the one open small space was attributed by press and others to heroic if not superhuman efforts by the crew to avoid a school, I think it was, and put a large disabled out-of-control commercial aircraft down on a handkerchief.
The trace in azimuth showed the aircraft wander in an irregular track as the crew met and pretty much overcame each successive problem in a series: the first engine cut out from starvation; the second from indvertent feathering; loss of airspeed; probable hand-over from the first officer to the captain; and so on. The vertical trace showed gradual fairly regular loss of altitude and at the end a sudden drop into a near-vertical fall.
As is mandatory in such events, the crash in the one open small space was attributed by press and others to heroic if not superhuman efforts by the crew to avoid a school, I think it was, and put a large disabled out-of-control commercial aircraft down on a handkerchief.
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If I may be a pedant with respect to the flight trials following the loss of Hotel Golf. The tests were a joint RAE/A&AEE effort and the report published was A&AEE Note 3022. I have a copy of it somewhere in my archive.
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The Argonaut was the unsung hero of BOACs 1950s aircraft crisis following the demise of the Comet 1 in 1954 and the drastically delayed arrival of the Britannia in 1957. Introduced in 1948 it covered almost all the network except the USA and Caribbean and Australia. Its range wasn't a problem on BOAC's multi-stop largely Commonwealth route pattern and it offered a pressurised cabin ( which the DC 4 never did) , comparable to the DC 6 series and a competitive degree of comfort in both First and Tourist versions. Its reliability was good as most engineers had met the Merlin in its wartime guises and there wasn't much about them that they didnt know, although their civilan lives were vastly greater than the average military ones.
In 1948-50 it was envisaged that BOACs piston fleet would all be gone by 1955,but the above failures of their replacements produced a crisis which was overcome by keeping the Argonauts on African and Eastern Routes (but not beyond Singapore on the Australian route) and they soldiered manfully on
until the final service to Abadan in early 1960. Additionally more second hand Stratocruisers and Constellations were purchased to cover the Atlantic and initially Australia but later South Africa and many Eastern Routes First Class services. Peak utilisastion was probably in 1956 as the Britannia's started to replace them first to South Africa and then to the East from February 1957. Apart from a few Middle East services their last strongholds were the East and West Africa terminators which they hung on to until Britannia 312s displaced the 102s to South Africa in the winter of 1958 and the 102s shifted a notch down the scale. They suffered less from competitors DC 6s and 7s on the colonial routes as traffic rights were the preserve ofthe UK, but in any case, apart from the cabin noise level, were as comfortable as most other piston aircarft and a great deal more reliable than most.
The 4 aircraft which went to East African Airways in 1957/8, including the one in Aden Airways titles, but EAA logos in EvansB's photograph of Feb 28th (on Page 2 of this item) gave EAA sterling service at low cost of ownership. As with all EAA aircraft ,right through to the Comet4 and VC 10 ,they were kept in immaculate external condition, which was seldom a BOAC strong point. They also operated the Nairobi/London route until September 1960 together with Nairobi-Aden-Pakistan-India and intra African services until EAA's third Comet arrived.
There is an excellent book about the Argonaut in all its guises called "The Canadair North Star" by Milberry , published by Canav Books.
In 1948-50 it was envisaged that BOACs piston fleet would all be gone by 1955,but the above failures of their replacements produced a crisis which was overcome by keeping the Argonauts on African and Eastern Routes (but not beyond Singapore on the Australian route) and they soldiered manfully on
until the final service to Abadan in early 1960. Additionally more second hand Stratocruisers and Constellations were purchased to cover the Atlantic and initially Australia but later South Africa and many Eastern Routes First Class services. Peak utilisastion was probably in 1956 as the Britannia's started to replace them first to South Africa and then to the East from February 1957. Apart from a few Middle East services their last strongholds were the East and West Africa terminators which they hung on to until Britannia 312s displaced the 102s to South Africa in the winter of 1958 and the 102s shifted a notch down the scale. They suffered less from competitors DC 6s and 7s on the colonial routes as traffic rights were the preserve ofthe UK, but in any case, apart from the cabin noise level, were as comfortable as most other piston aircarft and a great deal more reliable than most.
The 4 aircraft which went to East African Airways in 1957/8, including the one in Aden Airways titles, but EAA logos in EvansB's photograph of Feb 28th (on Page 2 of this item) gave EAA sterling service at low cost of ownership. As with all EAA aircraft ,right through to the Comet4 and VC 10 ,they were kept in immaculate external condition, which was seldom a BOAC strong point. They also operated the Nairobi/London route until September 1960 together with Nairobi-Aden-Pakistan-India and intra African services until EAA's third Comet arrived.
There is an excellent book about the Argonaut in all its guises called "The Canadair North Star" by Milberry , published by Canav Books.
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Thanks, Evansb, for that ad. If anyone wants a good overview of the North Star's birth & operations, find a copy of Ron Pickler & Larry Milberry's 1995 book:
Canadair The First 50 Years, CANAV Books, ISBN 0-921022-07-7.
Pages 49 - 79 covers the period.
It was given out as part of the Fifty Year celebrations. Probably no one will give up their copy as the end papers listed all the active Canadair employees (I'm about 2/3rds down the first page).
Canadair The First 50 Years, CANAV Books, ISBN 0-921022-07-7.
Pages 49 - 79 covers the period.
It was given out as part of the Fifty Year celebrations. Probably no one will give up their copy as the end papers listed all the active Canadair employees (I'm about 2/3rds down the first page).
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Canadair North Star, the book previously mentioned.
This book is hugely informative, and tracks the history of all 71 airframes. It narrates the Canadian conception, Government discussion, Douglas assistance, and Rolls Royce inputs. Early TCA and RCAF versions were not pressurised. Pressurisation for civilian aircraft, was pretty much a novelty in 1945. I just talked to a friend, and ex boss, who flew Tudors. ( Big old tail dragger, with a Lincoln wing and no cross-over exhausts ) He reminds us of the Tudor's Roots blowers, the F/E's manual spill valves, and problems with cabin ingestion of blower oil misting. The whole system was disabled on some. I think that this shows that Canadair, albeit with help from Roots and Godfrey, must have got it right on the ( first? ) successful pressurised airliner and that it was still a good ride in 1967, says a lot.
Maybe Blowers/ Avro Ashton/ Tudor problems, and Janitrol heaters, could be a possible interesting new thread - or pehaps that one has been and gone!
Referring back to the book again, one of my favourite asides is where in 1946, Canadair, having no milling machine, ferried raw wing spars to Douglas at Santa Monica in their DC3. These spars reached from inside the cockpit by the U/C lever to the lav compartment past the last bulkhead.
If anyone reading this has a copy, I would take issue with P.240. I know about only the four ex BOAC Argonauts that I flew in as a lucky 22 year old free-lance/contract co-pilot in 1964/65. ( lucky, because, at that time, jobs were scarce for low time pilots ) G-ALHM was not ferried to Castle Donington for breaking on 09SEP65. It was standing on the ramp at RAF Gutersloh on the 13th. I don't much trust my selective memory, but I'm looking at my logbook. The next day we flew 6hrs:15 to Bardufoss in G-ALHI ( see deeper trivia section, next paragraph ) Some months after converting to the Brit, I volunteered to ferry G-ALHM from Redhill to Castle Don on 09MAR66. This time, it really was for spares and tin-foil. I had never flown a big aeroplane off grass, and I remember the two of us testing the going, like a couple of Cricket captains strolling out to inspect the pitch. In the event, it shot off like a greased weasel........At the time, I was a member of the Tiger club at Redhill, and dropping indoors for a cup of tea, a few days later, had to keep shtum, when someone, reasonably, was howling about the ruts we left after the engine runs.....sorry about that. If it's any consolation, I nearly stuffed an Auster into an Argonaut rut at Burnaston myself.
Best Argonaut moment. After dropping off about 70 Territorial SAS at Bardufoss ( kick off point in Norway for NATO exercise areas ) My Captain sugested, for sentimental reasons, we might care to re-trace his steps of over 20 years previously, when in a Mosquito, he had been sniffing around for the Turpitz. The opposition had parked it ( according to Google, just now ) deep amongst the Fjords near Tromso. Just off a small island called Hakoya. We filed VFR, and after take off, dropped down just off the coast for the most exhilarating low level tour up a fjord, you can do that doesn't involve signing up with the military, or cruising with P&O. If there were any natives around, maybe fishing, very early that morning, they will have heard us. When we popped up again to set course for CPH, The Norwegan Airforce ATC was about to blow the whistle, and words were exchanged............... Brilliant day out though.
Maybe Blowers/ Avro Ashton/ Tudor problems, and Janitrol heaters, could be a possible interesting new thread - or pehaps that one has been and gone!
Referring back to the book again, one of my favourite asides is where in 1946, Canadair, having no milling machine, ferried raw wing spars to Douglas at Santa Monica in their DC3. These spars reached from inside the cockpit by the U/C lever to the lav compartment past the last bulkhead.
If anyone reading this has a copy, I would take issue with P.240. I know about only the four ex BOAC Argonauts that I flew in as a lucky 22 year old free-lance/contract co-pilot in 1964/65. ( lucky, because, at that time, jobs were scarce for low time pilots ) G-ALHM was not ferried to Castle Donington for breaking on 09SEP65. It was standing on the ramp at RAF Gutersloh on the 13th. I don't much trust my selective memory, but I'm looking at my logbook. The next day we flew 6hrs:15 to Bardufoss in G-ALHI ( see deeper trivia section, next paragraph ) Some months after converting to the Brit, I volunteered to ferry G-ALHM from Redhill to Castle Don on 09MAR66. This time, it really was for spares and tin-foil. I had never flown a big aeroplane off grass, and I remember the two of us testing the going, like a couple of Cricket captains strolling out to inspect the pitch. In the event, it shot off like a greased weasel........At the time, I was a member of the Tiger club at Redhill, and dropping indoors for a cup of tea, a few days later, had to keep shtum, when someone, reasonably, was howling about the ruts we left after the engine runs.....sorry about that. If it's any consolation, I nearly stuffed an Auster into an Argonaut rut at Burnaston myself.
Best Argonaut moment. After dropping off about 70 Territorial SAS at Bardufoss ( kick off point in Norway for NATO exercise areas ) My Captain sugested, for sentimental reasons, we might care to re-trace his steps of over 20 years previously, when in a Mosquito, he had been sniffing around for the Turpitz. The opposition had parked it ( according to Google, just now ) deep amongst the Fjords near Tromso. Just off a small island called Hakoya. We filed VFR, and after take off, dropped down just off the coast for the most exhilarating low level tour up a fjord, you can do that doesn't involve signing up with the military, or cruising with P&O. If there were any natives around, maybe fishing, very early that morning, they will have heard us. When we popped up again to set course for CPH, The Norwegan Airforce ATC was about to blow the whistle, and words were exchanged............... Brilliant day out though.
Stockport accident :
My brother was among the first police on the scene; he had joined the Stockport police just a couple of months previously. He still has some harrowing recollections as the pax were quite conscious inside the fuselage, which must have been intact at least in part, and they exchanged beats on the windows until the fire overwhelmed them. An attempt was made to break into the fuselage but this was later found to have been made at a structural strong point. I believe the "cut here" markings were a result of this accident (more recently they seem to have disappeared).
I would hope the press didn't do a "narrowly missed a school" story as I seem to recall the accident happened on a Sunday morning.
BOAC fleet :
Yes the Argonaut soldiered on beyond its expectations following the troubles with its turbine successors. The BOAC fleet of Constellations was not notably expanded in the later 1950s as, although a number of secondhand L749s were bought, an equal number of L049s (same size airframe but less capable)went the other way. The Strats were augmented by secondhand examples and dominated the Atlantic, and 10 DC7Cs were ordered. However getting to about 1958-60 the DC7Cs, the Britannias (both sizes), the Comet 4s and finally the first 707s all turned up in quantity pretty much together and it went from shortage to oversupply.
Noise :
An article I read a while ago said many of the long-term Argonaut crews suffered hearing loss in later years, the constant noise having done permanent damage. It was written as if this did not necessarily happen with other contemporary types.
My brother was among the first police on the scene; he had joined the Stockport police just a couple of months previously. He still has some harrowing recollections as the pax were quite conscious inside the fuselage, which must have been intact at least in part, and they exchanged beats on the windows until the fire overwhelmed them. An attempt was made to break into the fuselage but this was later found to have been made at a structural strong point. I believe the "cut here" markings were a result of this accident (more recently they seem to have disappeared).
I would hope the press didn't do a "narrowly missed a school" story as I seem to recall the accident happened on a Sunday morning.
BOAC fleet :
Yes the Argonaut soldiered on beyond its expectations following the troubles with its turbine successors. The BOAC fleet of Constellations was not notably expanded in the later 1950s as, although a number of secondhand L749s were bought, an equal number of L049s (same size airframe but less capable)went the other way. The Strats were augmented by secondhand examples and dominated the Atlantic, and 10 DC7Cs were ordered. However getting to about 1958-60 the DC7Cs, the Britannias (both sizes), the Comet 4s and finally the first 707s all turned up in quantity pretty much together and it went from shortage to oversupply.
Noise :
An article I read a while ago said many of the long-term Argonaut crews suffered hearing loss in later years, the constant noise having done permanent damage. It was written as if this did not necessarily happen with other contemporary types.
I happen to have a summer 1956 BOAC timetable here so this is the BOAC departure line-up for a typical summer Saturday, when some of the posters here were doubtless down at the fence in their school uniform caps 
4 Argonauts, 3 B377G Stratocruisers and 4 L749 Constellations. Surprisingly small.
0915 BA 161 Argonaut ROM-CAI-KTM-EBB-NBO
1345 BA 257 Argonaut ROM-TIP-KAN-ACC
1630 BA 251 Argonaut TIP-KAN-LOS
1700 BA 786 Argonaut DUS-ROM-BEY-BAG-BAH-KHI-DEL-CCA-DAC-RGN-BKK-SIN
1730 BA 633 B377G BUR-PIK-KEF-YUL
1900 BA 525 B377G BUR-PIK-YQX-NYC
2000 BA 509 B377G KEF-NYC
0945 BA 119 L749 ROM-CAI-KTM-NBO-SAL-JNB
1500 BA 904 L749 ZUR-BEY-KHI-CCA-RNG-HKG-TYO
1930 BA 224 L749 ROM-BEY-BAG-ABA-KHI
2030 BA 704 L749 ZUR-BEY-KHI-CCA-SIN-JKT-DRW-SYD
BUR is Burtonwood, which BOAC were using midway between Liverpool and Manchester.
4 Argonauts, 3 B377G Stratocruisers and 4 L749 Constellations. Surprisingly small.0915 BA 161 Argonaut ROM-CAI-KTM-EBB-NBO
1345 BA 257 Argonaut ROM-TIP-KAN-ACC
1630 BA 251 Argonaut TIP-KAN-LOS
1700 BA 786 Argonaut DUS-ROM-BEY-BAG-BAH-KHI-DEL-CCA-DAC-RGN-BKK-SIN
1730 BA 633 B377G BUR-PIK-KEF-YUL
1900 BA 525 B377G BUR-PIK-YQX-NYC
2000 BA 509 B377G KEF-NYC
0945 BA 119 L749 ROM-CAI-KTM-NBO-SAL-JNB
1500 BA 904 L749 ZUR-BEY-KHI-CCA-RNG-HKG-TYO
1930 BA 224 L749 ROM-BEY-BAG-ABA-KHI
2030 BA 704 L749 ZUR-BEY-KHI-CCA-SIN-JKT-DRW-SYD
BUR is Burtonwood, which BOAC were using midway between Liverpool and Manchester.
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Those Burtonwood calls must have been temporary relocation from Ringway, surely. Runway work?
When I arrived in T3 in late Summer 69, BA's operation had doubled to 22 a day: [* 707, otherwise VC10]
BA503 1000 JFK NAS *
BA071 1030 FRA NBO
BA501 1100 JFK
BA762 1115 BEY DOH DXB BOM
BA922 1130 FRA ROM DEL BKK HKG TYO *
BA561 1130 BOS DTT
BA697 1145 ANU BGI POS GRG
BA531 1200 JFK SFO HNL NAN SYD
BA308 1200 TLV
BA567 1215 YUL CHI
BA605 1230 PIK YYZ
BA669 1230 BDA NAS *
BA505 1300 JFK MBJ KIN LIM
BA509 1500 JFK
BA601 1515 YYZ *
BA507 1600 JFK
BA722 1615 ZRH THR KHI CCU SIN PER SYD AKL *
BA031 2015 ROM NBO JNB
BA051 2145 CAI NBO LUN
BA792 2215 BAH DEL KUL SIN
BA011 2230 EBB JNB
BA281 2245 ROM KAN LOS
Note the nice lunch and tea breaks for the check-in staff
When I arrived in T3 in late Summer 69, BA's operation had doubled to 22 a day: [* 707, otherwise VC10]
BA503 1000 JFK NAS *
BA071 1030 FRA NBO
BA501 1100 JFK
BA762 1115 BEY DOH DXB BOM
BA922 1130 FRA ROM DEL BKK HKG TYO *
BA561 1130 BOS DTT
BA697 1145 ANU BGI POS GRG
BA531 1200 JFK SFO HNL NAN SYD
BA308 1200 TLV
BA567 1215 YUL CHI
BA605 1230 PIK YYZ
BA669 1230 BDA NAS *
BA505 1300 JFK MBJ KIN LIM
BA509 1500 JFK
BA601 1515 YYZ *
BA507 1600 JFK
BA722 1615 ZRH THR KHI CCU SIN PER SYD AKL *
BA031 2015 ROM NBO JNB
BA051 2145 CAI NBO LUN
BA792 2215 BAH DEL KUL SIN
BA011 2230 EBB JNB
BA281 2245 ROM KAN LOS
Note the nice lunch and tea breaks for the check-in staff
Thread Starter
According to the same book on Midland by B.G. Cramp, the Argonaut was a touch tail-heavy when first received at Burnaston, and removal of a "horseshoe-shaped bar" at the rear of the aircraft helped rectify the problem.
r
r
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Off-topic: From my hazy memory United's DC-10s had a little lounge at the rear of the cabin, no drink server though. They laid out the leftovers of the trays of little sandwiches, etc., after cabin snack service. It was in the aft of the 'plane, so it must have been in coach. I don't think this feature lasted long.
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The lounge at the rear of the cabin had a horse shoe shaped bench seat where passengers could sit with a drink, no bar,waiter service only !
This was the layout with BOAC in 1953. The bench seat was not part of the seating plan.
I flew on an Aden Airways charter flight to Mombassa in 1961 where myself and family were seated on the bench seat throughout the flight, with seat belts.
This was the layout with BOAC in 1953. The bench seat was not part of the seating plan.
I flew on an Aden Airways charter flight to Mombassa in 1961 where myself and family were seated on the bench seat throughout the flight, with seat belts.