Argonaut/North Star Memories and Observations
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Sole surviving North Star in Ottawa
Photographed by me there in 2014: https://www.flickr.com/photos/489750...-ttF6AK-tXtXUo
Lovely model of one at the same location:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/489750...-ttF6AK-tXtXUo
One of two plaques at the Stockport crash site:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/489750...-ttF6AK-tXtXUo
G-ALHY in service with BMA in the 1960s:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/489750...-ttF6AK-tXtXUo
Lovely model of one at the same location:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/489750...-ttF6AK-tXtXUo
One of two plaques at the Stockport crash site:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/489750...-ttF6AK-tXtXUo
G-ALHY in service with BMA in the 1960s:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/489750...-ttF6AK-tXtXUo
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We used to live very close to Panshanger airfield. I have vague memories of when my dad took my to see the North Star. I was around 4 years old. Somewhere in my loft there is a couple of photos that my elder brother took at the time.
Argonaut to Nairobi
Well remember my two flights on BOAC Argonauts. Flew out to Nairobi and back in the summer of 1958 (school holidays). It was my first trip as unaccompanied self loading freight, felt very grown up (13 years of age).
Flight out was uneventful but I do remember the noise, the ringing in your ears goes on for a couple days afterwards. Later I flew on an Air France Lockheed Starliner and I remember that as much noisier.
Come mid September it is time to return to school, reluctantly. The return flight (Flt No BA161) turned out to be “more interesting”. Leave NBI mid afternoon for the flight up to Entebbe, about 1 ˝ hours. Leave Entebbe in the late afternoon for the next leg to Khartoum, about 4 ˝ hours. When we are about 45 mins from Khartoum the captain announces we have an engine problem which is going to need attention and the facilities to do this are better at Entebbe, so it is back to Entebbe!!! Arrive back there, by which time it is approaching midnight. All the passengers, mainly teenagers returning to school, are despatched to the Lake Victoria Hotel. Seem to remember bunking down six to a room.
Final instructions are, “We will be up early, back at the airport for 07:00, then we will be on our way”. Duly arrive at the airport to be told, “The aircraft is not ready, go and have some breakfast, should be away by 10:00”. Later we are told “Need some spares from Nairobi, they are coming up on an East African Airways flight, should have you away by two o’clock!”.
While we are waiting an RAF Canberra lands. Some of the passengers get chatting to the crew and were invited to go out and take a closer look. Turns out the a/c is on its way back from Woomera. I remember asking if it was capable of carrying an atomic weapon, the crew gave “hazy” answers as I recall!!
We enjoy lunch but still no serviceable Argonaut. About four o’clock that day’s BA 161 hoves into sight from Nairobi,BA 161 is a daily flight. So we now have two lots of BA 161 passengers on the ground. The obligatory Tannoy is put out requesting passengers to re-embark. Chaos ensues as passengers from both flights queue to reboard. Eventually matters are sorted out and today’s flight departs with our delayed flight departing some hour or so later.
The captain seemed in no hurry to get us to London as we enjoyed a couple of circuits of Mt Etna at fairly low level: we were of course on our way into Rome (in those days Ciampino).
We arrive at LAP around about 11:00, only around 25 hrs behind schedule: oh the delights of 1950s air travel!! Was no doubt met by one of my relatives who put me on the train to Brokenhurst. Back to school, ugh !!!!
Flight out was uneventful but I do remember the noise, the ringing in your ears goes on for a couple days afterwards. Later I flew on an Air France Lockheed Starliner and I remember that as much noisier.
Come mid September it is time to return to school, reluctantly. The return flight (Flt No BA161) turned out to be “more interesting”. Leave NBI mid afternoon for the flight up to Entebbe, about 1 ˝ hours. Leave Entebbe in the late afternoon for the next leg to Khartoum, about 4 ˝ hours. When we are about 45 mins from Khartoum the captain announces we have an engine problem which is going to need attention and the facilities to do this are better at Entebbe, so it is back to Entebbe!!! Arrive back there, by which time it is approaching midnight. All the passengers, mainly teenagers returning to school, are despatched to the Lake Victoria Hotel. Seem to remember bunking down six to a room.
Final instructions are, “We will be up early, back at the airport for 07:00, then we will be on our way”. Duly arrive at the airport to be told, “The aircraft is not ready, go and have some breakfast, should be away by 10:00”. Later we are told “Need some spares from Nairobi, they are coming up on an East African Airways flight, should have you away by two o’clock!”.
While we are waiting an RAF Canberra lands. Some of the passengers get chatting to the crew and were invited to go out and take a closer look. Turns out the a/c is on its way back from Woomera. I remember asking if it was capable of carrying an atomic weapon, the crew gave “hazy” answers as I recall!!
We enjoy lunch but still no serviceable Argonaut. About four o’clock that day’s BA 161 hoves into sight from Nairobi,BA 161 is a daily flight. So we now have two lots of BA 161 passengers on the ground. The obligatory Tannoy is put out requesting passengers to re-embark. Chaos ensues as passengers from both flights queue to reboard. Eventually matters are sorted out and today’s flight departs with our delayed flight departing some hour or so later.
The captain seemed in no hurry to get us to London as we enjoyed a couple of circuits of Mt Etna at fairly low level: we were of course on our way into Rome (in those days Ciampino).
We arrive at LAP around about 11:00, only around 25 hrs behind schedule: oh the delights of 1950s air travel!! Was no doubt met by one of my relatives who put me on the train to Brokenhurst. Back to school, ugh !!!!
Last edited by Planemike; 5th Feb 2019 at 13:52.
Wander.......... Check you PMs. PM
Join Date: May 2008
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In 1953 I flew with my mother from Singapore to London in a BOAC Argonaut.We checked in at the old Kallang airport and were bussed to Changi airport which was purely military in those days.The reason for this was that Kallang runway was not long enough for a loaded Argonaut. About an hour after T/O my mother said 'there is a funny noise' - I had a look out and saw #4 feathered. We turned back,dumped fuel and landed at Kallang. Late that night we were bussed to Changi again and on arrival were told to go home as an engine cowling had fallen off on the ferry from Kallang. We departed again the next day,transited through Colombo with no problems.Arrived and departed Karachi - about an hour out another engine was feathered and back we went.Took off again next day and an hour out another engine was feathered - back to Karachi again. We departed again 2 days later and had no further problems. We finally arrived at Heathrow where customs was a large military style tent. All that was in the days when flying was still an adventure.
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Ah! the days of "Time to spare go by air", or alternatively "It's quicker by BOAT".
At Idris, after the BOAC Argonaut departed for its night flight to Kano, the occupants of the mess bar could toddle down to the airport restaurant to enjoy a dish left over from the passengers' dinners - 5 piastres (a shilling) ISTR and very good too.
At Idris, after the BOAC Argonaut departed for its night flight to Kano, the occupants of the mess bar could toddle down to the airport restaurant to enjoy a dish left over from the passengers' dinners - 5 piastres (a shilling) ISTR and very good too.
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Correction to my last post - my flight was in 1955 - the year of the Marciano - Cockell fight. One of the other passengers was headed for New York to see the fight.
In the 1950s BOAC cabin crew gave out cardboard models of the Argonaut to amuse child passengers. A friend of my mother's who worked at LHR brought a couple of these kits home for my brother and me. Impressively, they featured retractable undercarriage. Sadly our models have long since vanished and I've yet to meet anyone else who remembers them.
Aden Airways
I flew in an Argonaut from Khormaksar,think Aden airways were run by BOAC(?)as the paint job was the same.All the way to Mombasa for a two week R&R .The flight down was uneventful .
The return flight hit some thunderstorms and it was a bit turbulent,I had spent all my money by the time I left and was a trifle hungry ,one of the stewardess,s was the girl friend of one of 8 sqdns pilots and I new here slightly,as a lot of people had declined their meals due to the turbulence The stewardess kindly allowed me a few extra meals!!Great flight and a week later 8 sqdn (including me)left for Nairobi for an excersise !!Flying from Embakasi ,now that's another story !!
The return flight hit some thunderstorms and it was a bit turbulent,I had spent all my money by the time I left and was a trifle hungry ,one of the stewardess,s was the girl friend of one of 8 sqdns pilots and I new here slightly,as a lot of people had declined their meals due to the turbulence The stewardess kindly allowed me a few extra meals!!Great flight and a week later 8 sqdn (including me)left for Nairobi for an excersise !!Flying from Embakasi ,now that's another story !!
A cardboard model? That is most interesting. I am something of a collector of historic cardboard models. Would anybody have more information, or could even supply a copy of one of these models? I would be highly thrilled.
The Argonaut models were cleverly engineered so they could be assembled without adhesive or tools. The components were held together by 'V' joints. The nosewheel retracted by swivelling on a joint and the main gear retracted into the engine nacelles. I copied the 'V' joint idea and nosewheel swivel in my Aerocard models but had to think of a new arrangement for the main gear. After trying various ideas the combined engine-gear design seemed to work best.
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I flew the Air Links C4 Argonauts as a co-pilot, but won't claim to be much of an expert, since ground school was all afternoon, and six visual circuits at Gatwick was all the handling I got for a while. I did quite a lot of supernumery, however, before being let loose in the right hand seat. Somewhere in there, I must have worked in an instrument rating renewal, and whatever stamp was needed for the C4 type rating. I remember having to return to the 'ministry', or ARB, to sit the recently introduced 'Performance A', which had been somehow overlooked. All the Captains, who seem to have been flying everything powered by Merlins since 1939, were easy to get along with. We were all on individual contracts, with some flying trips with other operators as well. By this time, I think that our friends at Derby Airways were the only other Argonaut operators. Must have been in 1966, by which time we had re-equipped with Britannias, that I returned to Redhill to ferry the last stored Argonaut out to British Midland for spares ( BMA, the new posh re-badged ident for the much cherished Derby Airways ) I look back to my brief association with the Argonaut era as a time of maverick goings-on, with much laughter and unexpected 'wind-falls'........Ho hum...
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....Having just had a very quick scan through the previous posts here, I can make a couple or three observations.....The pressurisation stuff was on the co-pilot's side, and was ( I seem to recall ) similar to the DC6. A full sized altimeter on the eyebrow panel for the settings, and tweaking the system gave about the smoothest comfort control of any I've met since. That said, the challenges were not quite comparable to the jet age, I realise. As hinted at on one post, at least on the four C4s Air Links, ( charter airline names appeared to change at some speed, whereas the people in charge so regularly the same ) we used to throttle back at about 10,000ft.....probably two engines at a time, in order to engage high blower. The sort of work picked up from the Baltic exchange, might well involve something like a ship's crew positioning from Europe back East. As you may well imagine, with quite possibly no passengers understanding much English, and us mostly not much help in any other communication with them, apart from a few left over catch phrases from the Empire East of the Med ( i.e. expressions known mostly to Captains, involving laundry, wait-a-moment, thank you, hello, go-away, and stuff to do with mealtimes... not any use at all ) Cabin crew, all female and sourced locally were young and resilient, but to finish the point I started above about the comforting roar of the Merlins unexpectedly dying away half way up the climb, this was likely to seriously unsettle the more timorous clientele. ( including, the first couple of times, yours truly ) I could bang on about the cyclic timers for de-icing, and the strange heater at the back end, but I would have to revise a bit. Suffice to say that we once more or less got overwhelmed by icing, to the point the aircraft actually entered an incipient stall over the Alps. However we recovered before breaking safety altitude, so probably not that route over Mt Blanc. I spotted on another page here about crew compliment. The aircraft was fine with just two pilots apart from the North Atlantic or similar situations. Not so many VORs around then, so mostly NDBs, dead reckoning, and sometimes Consol and friendly QGH type bearings off military or civilian radar, although variable when heading East or anywhere near Africa. ( UK ATC Malta did reach quite a bit south in the '60s ) Have to say, we did have GCA radar approaches available in Europe. I think maybe Heathrow, and certainly on one occasion when with a problem, and in a hurry, we were talked back on at ( I think ) Wildenrath on a foggy day, and never saw the runway until moments before touch down. Not the final talk-down controller, but the person on tower frequency turned out to be my Captain's bro-in-law. A fridge that we had on board for him, we were planning to drop off at Gutersloh.......so that saved him a trip to pick it up. I didn't fly the DC4, but I think it was very different apart from its external similarity. A friend in the next village, at the end of his National Service in the RAF, was posted to help out in the Belgian Congo. Still in his early 20s, not only flew DC4 and DC3s as Captain, but also as the only person on board. Another ( also ex BCal ) operated as single pilot on DC4s somewhere in the Pacific. The Argonaut was the only type I flew where we never had manuals on issue......Just the office copy and the 'Flight Manual' document on each aircraft. Derby Airways people were more organised. I'm sure the BA museum at LHR will have Argonaut manuals for anyone wanting more info......
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Another great thread, I love hearing, or reading, tales from the good old days?!.
Unfortunately the Argonaut was before my time, I only saw the hulk on the fire dump at STN.
Some years ago I had a colleague, sadly no longer with us, who had been a ground engineer at Overseas. He told me of the owner taking him to inspect an Argonaut at London Airport, that had just been purchased. Upon giving a positive assessment of the machine he was told to jump aboard, where upon the new owner fired up the engines and ferried the aircraft to SEN.
Another story involved transporting an urgently needed ships prop shaft. A job successfully completed despite the item not quite fitting inside the aircraft!
Hopefully there is a grain of truth to these tales, they certainly seem to fit with the spirit of the time, amongst certain operators.
Unfortunately the Argonaut was before my time, I only saw the hulk on the fire dump at STN.
Some years ago I had a colleague, sadly no longer with us, who had been a ground engineer at Overseas. He told me of the owner taking him to inspect an Argonaut at London Airport, that had just been purchased. Upon giving a positive assessment of the machine he was told to jump aboard, where upon the new owner fired up the engines and ferried the aircraft to SEN.
Another story involved transporting an urgently needed ships prop shaft. A job successfully completed despite the item not quite fitting inside the aircraft!
Hopefully there is a grain of truth to these tales, they certainly seem to fit with the spirit of the time, amongst certain operators.
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Here is a link to a short story about a Trans Canada Air Lines North Star "Flying Merchant":
Lightning Over the Hudson > Vintage Wings of Canada
Lightning Over the Hudson > Vintage Wings of Canada
Thread Starter
Someone has kindly uploaded the post-Stockport BBC documentary from 1968. Detailed, informative and with rare footage
Last edited by Midland 331; 9th Apr 2018 at 19:11.
Someone has kindly uploaded the post-Stockport BBC documentary from 1968. Detailed, informative and with rare footage
https://youtu.be/Zz94kJRXWqA
https://youtu.be/Zz94kJRXWqA
Linked to another forum I inhabit as one of it's members was a copper in Stockport at time.
