Shuttleworth Displays - Feedback Required, Please
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FEBA Shuttleworth had an entire Anson TX183 which they virtually gave away without so much as a bye your leave to the team of volenteers at Duxford who had spend a number of years on the restoration project!!
Clipped Wing AR501. this should be clipped, as when it was in service with 310 Squadron this is how it ran. Again the team at Duxford (of which I was a member so I know or what I speak
) spent a long time going for authenticity (sp?) in everything and the clipped C wing was the answer, so clipped please! Elliptical wing tips were added for I think it's part in te Battle of Britain Film when it was painted with AIAon one side and something else on the other
Clipped Wing AR501. this should be clipped, as when it was in service with 310 Squadron this is how it ran. Again the team at Duxford (of which I was a member so I know or what I speak
) spent a long time going for authenticity (sp?) in everything and the clipped C wing was the answer, so clipped please! Elliptical wing tips were added for I think it's part in te Battle of Britain Film when it was painted with AIAon one side and something else on the other
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Ludwig, far be it for me to cast aspertions, but I have TX183 down as being registered to the Jordan family (they of meusli fame) based in Biggleswade. This is as of 1985, source Vintage Aircraft Directory, author Gordon Riley. I've not heard of the aeroplane since then.
AR501, I think the film responsible for her switch to elipticals was Pearl Harbor (surely missing a 'u'?). She was definately clipped throughout the eighties, and Battle of Britain was filmed in 1968.
BeauMan (aka, pedant)
AR501, I think the film responsible for her switch to elipticals was Pearl Harbor (surely missing a 'u'?). She was definately clipped throughout the eighties, and Battle of Britain was filmed in 1968.
BeauMan (aka, pedant)
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JDK
I am pleased someone likes the idea for the Mag Men/OW DVD
Cameraone
I shall keep an eye open for that DVD next time we're at Shuttleworth. Will it include any views from the aeroplanes? Which was one thought for helping to show us mere mortals what its like to fly some of the wonderful aeroplanes at OW. Also it would be good for a Mag Men/OW DVD to see if there are any out-takes from the filming, not for the funnies but to show more of the flying of the aeroplanes, scenes that were good but not used. Another thought was to see if there are any recordings of the pilots chatting about their experiences flying the replicas. Could Derek Piggott be persuaded to chat about it, are there any other Mag Men pilots to add their impressions? Then to bring it up to date the Shuttleworth pilots could give their thoughts. Show a briefing of a pilot new to type, then his impressions afterwards. That could apply to all of the aeroplanes not just the Mag Men ones. Yes I know we can occasionally read their thoughts in Propswing, but a DVD would give another dimension to this and, being one of the modern media, might appeal more to the next generation.
Perhaps there are other ideas Ppruners can add to a theme for new and other ways of swelling the coffers at OW, besides the comments so far on what we think of the (lovely) place.
Cheers and happy flying (with eight hours in between!)
TD&H
I am pleased someone likes the idea for the Mag Men/OW DVD
Cameraone
I shall keep an eye open for that DVD next time we're at Shuttleworth. Will it include any views from the aeroplanes? Which was one thought for helping to show us mere mortals what its like to fly some of the wonderful aeroplanes at OW. Also it would be good for a Mag Men/OW DVD to see if there are any out-takes from the filming, not for the funnies but to show more of the flying of the aeroplanes, scenes that were good but not used. Another thought was to see if there are any recordings of the pilots chatting about their experiences flying the replicas. Could Derek Piggott be persuaded to chat about it, are there any other Mag Men pilots to add their impressions? Then to bring it up to date the Shuttleworth pilots could give their thoughts. Show a briefing of a pilot new to type, then his impressions afterwards. That could apply to all of the aeroplanes not just the Mag Men ones. Yes I know we can occasionally read their thoughts in Propswing, but a DVD would give another dimension to this and, being one of the modern media, might appeal more to the next generation.
Perhaps there are other ideas Ppruners can add to a theme for new and other ways of swelling the coffers at OW, besides the comments so far on what we think of the (lovely) place.
Cheers and happy flying (with eight hours in between!)
TD&H
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Beauman Re TX183 indeed so, then sold on to a Mike Fraser who lived in Switzerland and had it up in Scotland for a rebuild, and subsequently sold on to I think the middle east.
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Just reading THT's bit in Prop Swing, good to see a Jungmeister coming to OW it will fit in really nicely and I like the suggestion of maybe a Bestmann and a FW Steiglitz to form a 'German wing', perhaps even do a deal on the Storch and get that up from DX(my idea the last bit!)
It will sort of, not completely of course, make up for the LVG going of to collect dust at Hendon.
All of these things add to the flavour of OW.
Airbedane, I note that Robert Richardson says that the Bristol Monoplane will be repaired and 'on the display line for next season',does this mean airborne again or 'just' on the line?
It will sort of, not completely of course, make up for the LVG going of to collect dust at Hendon.
All of these things add to the flavour of OW.
Airbedane, I note that Robert Richardson says that the Bristol Monoplane will be repaired and 'on the display line for next season',does this mean airborne again or 'just' on the line?
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I've only been to an OW show once - the Anniversary Garden Party this year. Self, wife, stepson and daughter-in-law.
Marvelous day; aircraft for everyone (including gliders - I glid sometimes myself).
Her ladyship was kept happy with a tour round the House.
I agree that the catering wasn't spectacular, but I guess much of it is done by the same volunteers who always do these things and all credit to them for it. Bring in the high-powered professionals and you'll get the same high-powered blandness and the same high-powered entrance fees. Anyway, as it was flagged as a Garden Party, we opted to bring our own supplies, washed down with beverages from the nearest tent. :¬)
The 'will they - won't they' tension as we waited for the 'Edwardians' was quite something. The Wren bungey launch and the Edwardian flights quite made up for taking the wrong turning off the A1 and adding 45 minutes to the journey home!!!
But we all agreed it was 'A Grand Day Out'.
Many thanks to all concerned. I hope to return soon.
Regards
Ron Beecroft
Marvelous day; aircraft for everyone (including gliders - I glid sometimes myself).
Her ladyship was kept happy with a tour round the House.
I agree that the catering wasn't spectacular, but I guess much of it is done by the same volunteers who always do these things and all credit to them for it. Bring in the high-powered professionals and you'll get the same high-powered blandness and the same high-powered entrance fees. Anyway, as it was flagged as a Garden Party, we opted to bring our own supplies, washed down with beverages from the nearest tent. :¬)
The 'will they - won't they' tension as we waited for the 'Edwardians' was quite something. The Wren bungey launch and the Edwardian flights quite made up for taking the wrong turning off the A1 and adding 45 minutes to the journey home!!!
But we all agreed it was 'A Grand Day Out'.
Many thanks to all concerned. I hope to return soon.
Regards
Ron Beecroft
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Lost the Plot
Shuttleworth Jungmann? Can't help feeling that they are going slightly off the rails in terms of direction . Whilst I can appreciate that things have been turned around financially in recent years some recent additions don't make much sense....
Sell a quite super Chippie, buy an average Chippie
Sell the Percival to NZ, buy a Provost
I am sure that I hold the views of many in that one Mew Gull beats a Jungmann and Provost in keeping with the Shuttleworth spirit everytime!
Sell a quite super Chippie, buy an average Chippie
Sell the Percival to NZ, buy a Provost
I am sure that I hold the views of many in that one Mew Gull beats a Jungmann and Provost in keeping with the Shuttleworth spirit everytime!
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Losing the plot
Hi Cosmic,
This thread has been quite positive. I think that we as a nation should be justifiably proud that we have such a jewel in our midst that has been responsible for the preservation of so much of our aviation heritage over the years.
I believe that the majority of posters concur with this.
Past disposal/ current aquisition decisions will never please everybody.
Whilst not in posession of the full facts, I am confident that the disposal of some gems in the past were agonising decisions forced by commercial considerations.
If you have bills to pay, the option always is to trim your cloth accordingly.
Fortunately, under the present regime, The Collection is a much leaner operation - disposals seem to be a thing of the past, aquisitions seem to be the rule, hence the new hangar.
Losing Jean Battens Gull wouldn't therefore happen these days so please don't tar the present regime with that and other unpopular disposals long gone, tears dried.
I see by your log-in name that you are an air racer or air racing fan. Nothing wrong with that (I think we simply forgot to run a 'mock' air race this season and will hopefully run one next).
However, other OW enthusiasts may well revel in the joys of the Jungmann performing aeros. I know I will. This is a great 30's classic and very much in keeping with The Collection.
Why dont you like it? Why don't you think it fits in?
The period is right, it has 2 wings, the crowd will love it. That my friend is what we need at OW - bum$ on seats.
Is it because its foreign? What about the Desoutter then...
Mew Gull - This was owned privately by Des Penrose. He used to display it and his Arrow Active, much the same as I do with my Magister and Falcon Miles Aircraft.
The option was there for The Collection to buy them when Des decided(ish!) to hang his white helmet up. They hadn't got the funds and sadly had to see them fly off up to Breighton where it is enjoyed in a similar environment.
Chippie - Nothing wrong with the current machine. Given unlimited funds and time I am sure it could do with an accurate paint job. However, it is airworthy. Therefore, as a priority, I am sure you would rather the engineers concentrate on the Tutor, the Comet and the Bristol Fighter?
Piston Provost - The crowds love big noisy aircraft with roundels on them. It also didn't cost a shed load of money. Good decision to buy it I say.
So come on Cosmic, chill out and enjoy - the plot 'aint been lost at all.
If you want to make your own contribution how about raising some funds to buy a WW1 German aircraft for The Collection? A replica DR1 with a rotary engine would be gratefully received.
We are a bit light in that area at the moment.
We promise to put a nice polished name plaque on the side of the fuz.
We could also do with some volunteers, especially those prepared to clean the aircraft.
Are you an SVAS member? We are even less likely to 'lose the plot' in the future if more people joined.
Do you know something, I bet more than one freeloader who peers over the fence at every show rather than - heaven forbid - buy a ticket, has dared to castigate The Collection in the past.
HP
This thread has been quite positive. I think that we as a nation should be justifiably proud that we have such a jewel in our midst that has been responsible for the preservation of so much of our aviation heritage over the years.
I believe that the majority of posters concur with this.
Past disposal/ current aquisition decisions will never please everybody.
Whilst not in posession of the full facts, I am confident that the disposal of some gems in the past were agonising decisions forced by commercial considerations.
If you have bills to pay, the option always is to trim your cloth accordingly.
Fortunately, under the present regime, The Collection is a much leaner operation - disposals seem to be a thing of the past, aquisitions seem to be the rule, hence the new hangar.
Losing Jean Battens Gull wouldn't therefore happen these days so please don't tar the present regime with that and other unpopular disposals long gone, tears dried.
I see by your log-in name that you are an air racer or air racing fan. Nothing wrong with that (I think we simply forgot to run a 'mock' air race this season and will hopefully run one next).
However, other OW enthusiasts may well revel in the joys of the Jungmann performing aeros. I know I will. This is a great 30's classic and very much in keeping with The Collection.
Why dont you like it? Why don't you think it fits in?
The period is right, it has 2 wings, the crowd will love it. That my friend is what we need at OW - bum$ on seats.
Is it because its foreign? What about the Desoutter then...
Mew Gull - This was owned privately by Des Penrose. He used to display it and his Arrow Active, much the same as I do with my Magister and Falcon Miles Aircraft.
The option was there for The Collection to buy them when Des decided(ish!) to hang his white helmet up. They hadn't got the funds and sadly had to see them fly off up to Breighton where it is enjoyed in a similar environment.
Chippie - Nothing wrong with the current machine. Given unlimited funds and time I am sure it could do with an accurate paint job. However, it is airworthy. Therefore, as a priority, I am sure you would rather the engineers concentrate on the Tutor, the Comet and the Bristol Fighter?
Piston Provost - The crowds love big noisy aircraft with roundels on them. It also didn't cost a shed load of money. Good decision to buy it I say.
So come on Cosmic, chill out and enjoy - the plot 'aint been lost at all.
If you want to make your own contribution how about raising some funds to buy a WW1 German aircraft for The Collection? A replica DR1 with a rotary engine would be gratefully received.
We are a bit light in that area at the moment.
We promise to put a nice polished name plaque on the side of the fuz.
We could also do with some volunteers, especially those prepared to clean the aircraft.
Are you an SVAS member? We are even less likely to 'lose the plot' in the future if more people joined.
Do you know something, I bet more than one freeloader who peers over the fence at every show rather than - heaven forbid - buy a ticket, has dared to castigate The Collection in the past.
HP
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Intersting reply. Agree with most of it....
In response I am an SVAS member and have visited OW on many occasion and displayed there.
Whilst attractive in many ways the idea of a fully in house display will not encourage visitors to come to maybe more than one show per season. Some of the most memorable diaplays I've seen have been from visiting aircraft. Just surprises me that two aircraft that are certainly not rare in UK skies have been added to the collection. Not only that but some of the specialist owner/operators simply fly their own aircraft more than the OW machines; I think that you'd be hard pressed to beat a Jungmann display by the likes of Anna Walker for example.
In response I am an SVAS member and have visited OW on many occasion and displayed there.
Whilst attractive in many ways the idea of a fully in house display will not encourage visitors to come to maybe more than one show per season. Some of the most memorable diaplays I've seen have been from visiting aircraft. Just surprises me that two aircraft that are certainly not rare in UK skies have been added to the collection. Not only that but some of the specialist owner/operators simply fly their own aircraft more than the OW machines; I think that you'd be hard pressed to beat a Jungmann display by the likes of Anna Walker for example.
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Feedback on Old Warden?
Made one of my fairly frequent visits a few weeks back. As I touched down - URGH! - I was just thinking - MMPH! - that this is just - THUMP! - such a lovely - ARGH! - place, apart from - GNN! - this ****** runway!
Then one reads about Hurricanes losing tailwheels etc, and you think: wouldn't it be a good idea to regrade the runway? The Collection isn't really going to wait until the end of 2004 before doing it, is it?
I mean, I've replaced my own broken tailwheel spring now - and I am none to keen to bust the new one in a hurry (it cost as much as four hours' Cub flying!).
Made one of my fairly frequent visits a few weeks back. As I touched down - URGH! - I was just thinking - MMPH! - that this is just - THUMP! - such a lovely - ARGH! - place, apart from - GNN! - this ****** runway!
Then one reads about Hurricanes losing tailwheels etc, and you think: wouldn't it be a good idea to regrade the runway? The Collection isn't really going to wait until the end of 2004 before doing it, is it?
I mean, I've replaced my own broken tailwheel spring now - and I am none to keen to bust the new one in a hurry (it cost as much as four hours' Cub flying!).
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Have to admit from a snapper's viewpoint a Jungmann does not fill me with excitement - too small and too far away when being chucked about, and we see them regularly already. Another one in German colours, well... gives Dad's Army something to shoot at I suppose. Some nice bright Spanish colours would be good.
If the 'opposition' are to have a better representation then I for one would like to see a Focke Wulf Steiglitz, or a Bf 108. Or a Storch!
Is the Po-2 going to be a flyer or is it just a static addition?
If the 'opposition' are to have a better representation then I for one would like to see a Focke Wulf Steiglitz, or a Bf 108. Or a Storch!
Is the Po-2 going to be a flyer or is it just a static addition?
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German aircraft at OW
Storch! Yes please!
I have fancied a Storch for many years now and actively started looking a couple of years ago.
I found a real time-warp genuine Fiesler/ Argus machine in Germany - met the agent, met the son of the owner, agreed to pay the full asking price, agreed to accept the aircraft on their terms (they actually wanted me to fly it to the UK! What an ordeal!)
However, the next thing I knew was that the owner had sold it to the USA - Gerry Yeagens now has it.
I dont think he has done anything with it yet.
If he will let it come back to the UK for the price he paid for it in Germany (and thus put right the dirty dealing by the vendor) we might see a Storch in the skies over Old Warden on a regular basis.
It was a bit of a dog but that was what I loved about it - a fasinating machine in original condition (except it has later metal wings) and with a fascinating history.
Ok, the Messenger (You didn't expect me to mention a Storch without a Messie comparison did you??) does it further, faster, smaller, more passengers, less fuel, similar STOL and, I am certain, a lot nicer to fly if those I have spoken to are all correct (the Storch is a pig to fly too...) the Storch has a fascination, attraction and sheer interest that the dear old Messenger never managed (Resignation from The Miles Collection about to be requested...!).
So come on Gerry - we want it back in Europe. Go and ask Kermit if you can fly his, we aint got one (OK, I know we have a MS Criquet with a roung engine but...well...it aint a Storch is it.
HP
I have fancied a Storch for many years now and actively started looking a couple of years ago.
I found a real time-warp genuine Fiesler/ Argus machine in Germany - met the agent, met the son of the owner, agreed to pay the full asking price, agreed to accept the aircraft on their terms (they actually wanted me to fly it to the UK! What an ordeal!)
However, the next thing I knew was that the owner had sold it to the USA - Gerry Yeagens now has it.
I dont think he has done anything with it yet.
If he will let it come back to the UK for the price he paid for it in Germany (and thus put right the dirty dealing by the vendor) we might see a Storch in the skies over Old Warden on a regular basis.
It was a bit of a dog but that was what I loved about it - a fasinating machine in original condition (except it has later metal wings) and with a fascinating history.
Ok, the Messenger (You didn't expect me to mention a Storch without a Messie comparison did you??) does it further, faster, smaller, more passengers, less fuel, similar STOL and, I am certain, a lot nicer to fly if those I have spoken to are all correct (the Storch is a pig to fly too...) the Storch has a fascination, attraction and sheer interest that the dear old Messenger never managed (Resignation from The Miles Collection about to be requested...!).
So come on Gerry - we want it back in Europe. Go and ask Kermit if you can fly his, we aint got one (OK, I know we have a MS Criquet with a roung engine but...well...it aint a Storch is it.
HP
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Could some deal be done with the (assuming its still there) Booker Fokker Eindekker. I'm not sure of this aircrafts authenticity having only seen it once many years back.
The MS Bullit they have/had would also fit in nicely, again I do not know the history.
Phil
The MS Bullit they have/had would also fit in nicely, again I do not know the history.
Phil
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First, apologies for the delay in replying, I’ve been short of time for the past two weeks or so.
Many thanks to all who have posted. The positive replies are nice to have, but the negative ones have also been constructive. What I’m interested in is making Old Warden a better and more cost effective place for all tastes, so we need to know what’s wrong as well as what’s right. I can’t promise to do anything about it, however, but where I can, I will. At least we now know what you don’t like.
Mag Men DVD – what a great idea. I’ve been patiently waiting for Mag Men (and the Battle of Britain) to come out on DVD for some time, so it would be nice to ‘kick start’ the process. For this to happen, I’ll need some help and possibly some sponsorship – ideas in either case would be appreciated……….
Clipped wing Spit – the aircraft came out of the factory with the wing tips on, so I don’t have too much of a problem with the authenticity. However, we’ve had the tips on since the Pearl Harbour filming, so I suppose it’s about time they came off for a period. Provided the Chief Engineer can find the time during 2004, we’ll have ‘em off mid season or so.
Bristol Monoplane – ‘back on the line’ in Shuttleworth speak means ‘ready to fly’, so we should see her back in the air during the 2004 season.
Buying and selling policy. The current acquisition policy for the Collection is ‘the first hundred years of flight’, with the added proviso that all exhibits must fly. The two exceptions to the latter are the Primary Glider – currently in the roof - and the Flying Flea – which had it’s C of A removed in the thirties.
Thanks for your input on the subject Hairyplane, I couldn’t have put it better myself.
Runway – I’m sorry to say that the runway levelling will not take place until the end of the 2004 season. We need to close the airfield to carry out such work, which has meant cancelling the last (October) display and moving the September evening display by one week. We can’t do this without forward planning, hence the delay.
The bumps in the runway are concentrated towards the 21 threshold, so if you land according to the marked displaced threshold, or slightly beyond it (caution short runway, however), then you’ll minimise your exposure to the bumps. Finally, the Hurricane broke her tailwheel on the runway extension, landing in the 03 direction – the runway extension is flat.
Opposition aircraft – I’d love to see a genuine first or second world war aircraft in the Collection – a Fokker DVI, DVIII or DR1 and an Me109E would be just great – any sponsors willing to give a hand would be much appreciated. (The LVG was always on loan from the RAF and RAF Museum, it had to go back sometime. Lets be thankful we had the pleasure of it in the air for at least some of the time, rather than sad at its’ loss).
Po-2 – we hope to get it in the air next season, but it’ll depend on certification in this country – we’re working on it.
Again, thanks for the input,
Airbedane
Many thanks to all who have posted. The positive replies are nice to have, but the negative ones have also been constructive. What I’m interested in is making Old Warden a better and more cost effective place for all tastes, so we need to know what’s wrong as well as what’s right. I can’t promise to do anything about it, however, but where I can, I will. At least we now know what you don’t like.
Mag Men DVD – what a great idea. I’ve been patiently waiting for Mag Men (and the Battle of Britain) to come out on DVD for some time, so it would be nice to ‘kick start’ the process. For this to happen, I’ll need some help and possibly some sponsorship – ideas in either case would be appreciated……….
Clipped wing Spit – the aircraft came out of the factory with the wing tips on, so I don’t have too much of a problem with the authenticity. However, we’ve had the tips on since the Pearl Harbour filming, so I suppose it’s about time they came off for a period. Provided the Chief Engineer can find the time during 2004, we’ll have ‘em off mid season or so.
Bristol Monoplane – ‘back on the line’ in Shuttleworth speak means ‘ready to fly’, so we should see her back in the air during the 2004 season.
Buying and selling policy. The current acquisition policy for the Collection is ‘the first hundred years of flight’, with the added proviso that all exhibits must fly. The two exceptions to the latter are the Primary Glider – currently in the roof - and the Flying Flea – which had it’s C of A removed in the thirties.
Thanks for your input on the subject Hairyplane, I couldn’t have put it better myself.
Runway – I’m sorry to say that the runway levelling will not take place until the end of the 2004 season. We need to close the airfield to carry out such work, which has meant cancelling the last (October) display and moving the September evening display by one week. We can’t do this without forward planning, hence the delay.
The bumps in the runway are concentrated towards the 21 threshold, so if you land according to the marked displaced threshold, or slightly beyond it (caution short runway, however), then you’ll minimise your exposure to the bumps. Finally, the Hurricane broke her tailwheel on the runway extension, landing in the 03 direction – the runway extension is flat.
Opposition aircraft – I’d love to see a genuine first or second world war aircraft in the Collection – a Fokker DVI, DVIII or DR1 and an Me109E would be just great – any sponsors willing to give a hand would be much appreciated. (The LVG was always on loan from the RAF and RAF Museum, it had to go back sometime. Lets be thankful we had the pleasure of it in the air for at least some of the time, rather than sad at its’ loss).
Po-2 – we hope to get it in the air next season, but it’ll depend on certification in this country – we’re working on it.
Again, thanks for the input,
Airbedane
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How about Corgi models of some of the Shuttleworth Aircraft. I would love the Spit and Hurri in my collection.
I know Biplanes are a bit harder do manufacturer but I'm sure they have thought about it.
I know Biplanes are a bit harder do manufacturer but I'm sure they have thought about it.
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The Jungmann is G-RETA, a 1950s' Spanish CASA Jungmann from North Weald . The collection has done a great deal to acquire her and I am sure she will be a wonderful part of the Collection.
The Eindekker is no longer at Booker but now resides at Compton Abbas.
The Eindekker is no longer at Booker but now resides at Compton Abbas.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Having secured G-RETA, I was going to suggest that the Collection next acquires G-ARBO which still exists, but it's difficult to see how a PA-24 Comanche would fit in... a classic in its own right though!
Looking forward to seeing G-RETA in action... lovely aerobatics...
Looking forward to seeing G-RETA in action... lovely aerobatics...
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Hello Airbedane
I agree that Hairyplane put across a very good view of what has and is happening at OW.
As the poster of the idea for the Mag Men DVD then I shall be happy to help, even if its only for ideas for what extras to the film should be included. Happy to do some researching and other associated bits and pieces. Wish I could be in a position to offer financial support, but if I could I would have been buying one or two aeroplanes with view to keeping at OW! But time is something I am happy to offer.
Rgds TD&H
I agree that Hairyplane put across a very good view of what has and is happening at OW.
As the poster of the idea for the Mag Men DVD then I shall be happy to help, even if its only for ideas for what extras to the film should be included. Happy to do some researching and other associated bits and pieces. Wish I could be in a position to offer financial support, but if I could I would have been buying one or two aeroplanes with view to keeping at OW! But time is something I am happy to offer.
Rgds TD&H