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-   -   Project Winton- Airbus (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/644222-project-winton-airbus.html)

Alt Flieger 17th Dec 2021 11:14


Originally Posted by BuzzBox (Post 11157216)
I've seen a few 'interesting' go-arounds in the simulator when Airbus pilots converting to Boeing have forgotten to press the TOGA switches. It gets even more interesting when they also forget to trim!

Agree.
One Airbus F/o doing his initial Command on the B737-800 commented to me in the sim. that he couldn’t believe how much hard work the B737 was engine out compared to the A330. Made very rude comparisons to the product of Soviet truck factories !
QF training department has many years experience of converting Boeing drivers to Airbus , including crusty old ones. Won’t be an issue.

Potsie Weber 17th Dec 2021 11:22


Originally Posted by Alt Flieger (Post 11157276)
Agree.
One Airbus F/o doing his initial Command on the B737-800 commented to me in the sim. that he couldn’t believe how much hard work the B737 was engine out compared to the A330. Made very rude comparisons to the product of Soviet truck factories !
QF training department has many years experience of converting Boeing drivers to Airbus , including crusty old ones. Won’t be an issue.

Yep. press toga = autopilot disconnect. Great logic that one!

I came off Airbus to do command training in 737-300 and 400 simulators. Bloody hard work, circling approach in the 300 sim with woeful graphics and drifting map.

Scooter Rassmussin 17th Dec 2021 12:34

This has to be some pipe dream , COVID isnít finished yet , the Hospitals will fill in early New Year and the borders will close , how will any Airline survive that .

turbantime 17th Dec 2021 12:53


Originally Posted by Scooter Rassmussin (Post 11157318)
This has to be some pipe dream , COVID isnít finished yet , the Hospitals will fill in early New Year and the borders will close , how will any Airline survive that .

You lockdown tragics make me laugh. NSW health Facebook page is full of people like you hankering for more restrictions and lockdowns. Just stay at home if youíre so worried while the rest of us get on with life.

Icarus2001 17th Dec 2021 13:10

Exactly, if you feel unsafe, stay home, wear a hazmat suit and mask and keep out of the way of the rest of us.

cLeArIcE 17th Dec 2021 15:12


Originally Posted by Scooter Rassmussin (Post 11157318)
This has to be some pipe dream , COVID isnít finished yet , the Hospitals will fill in early New Year and the borders will close , how will any Airline survive that .

Haha, I've always wondered if it's easy to be this stupid or , is it something you have to work at regularly?

Buckshot 17th Dec 2021 19:55

It will be an easier transition for the LH bus drivers bidding back to SH at 65

bangbounceboeing 17th Dec 2021 20:29

With shiny new Airbuses for Qantas and NJS what will become of the Alliance E190 wet lease operation?
I understand the agreement was for a 3 year period. Perhaps used as a stop gag between retiring aircraft and new arrivals/ training etc 🤷

Icarus2001 17th Dec 2021 22:25


With shiny new Airbuses for Qantas and NJS what will become of the Alliance E190 wet lease operation?
Having the option to deploy 100 seat aircraft with business class and IFE on pairings that do not warrant 180 seats is why they have the E190. The smaller aircraft can also supply frequency.
When will they get their first A220? Given that the order HAS NOT been placed yet and is not EXPECTED until late 2022, the A220 will not arrive until 2025 if ever.

neville_nobody 17th Dec 2021 23:40


With shiny new Airbuses for Qantas and NJS what will become of the Alliance E190 wet lease operation?
Just another player in the Network vs National Jet vs Mainline vs Alliance vs Qlink race to the bottom.

Going Boeing 18th Dec 2021 00:07

The industrial issues surrounding this are significant but, I donít think that they are insurmountable. Joyce is always out to extract every saving he can at the expense of the staff but, I believe that an agreement will be reached with mainline flying the A320ís & A321ís. Itís probable that Cobham will fly the A220ís when they arrive as replacements for the very tired (in the cabins, at least) B717ís. I think Network will virtually do all the West Australian domestic flying using Jetstar A320 cast offs.

Ever since the B767 was retired early, Qantas has missed having an aircraft to fill the capacity gap between the B737-800 & the A330-200 on domestic routes so, as the first 15 B738ís (ordered immediately after Ansettís collapse) come up for replacement, itís not surprising that they are planned to be replaced by the larger capacity A321XLR (or even some of the A321LRís that were ordered for the Group some time ago). When they have sufficient numbers of this capacity, the subsequent B738ís should be replaced (as they reach the end of their service life) by A320 NEOís.

This fleet will allow distinct product differentiation from their domestic competitors (even Jetstar has better seat comfort than the others) and I expect that will feature in the QF advertising when the B738 fleet numbers drop significantly. The PW GTF engines will deliver significant fuel savings from the current fleet and Joyce will proudly claim his green credentials (environmental, as well as Irish).

The sad point is that, in about 15 years time, the only Boeing aircraft operated by Qantas will be the B787 fleet.

PoppaJo 18th Dec 2021 09:43

A320s for Network, Jetstar and Qantas. All within the same group, all aircraft originally sourced from the same order, yet all three crews on very different wages. Looking at Mainline and Jetstar. Two A321s leave Melbourne for Sydney. Two long serving captains. One earns $100k more.

A lot of work needs to be done in that space. Budget Airline does not mean budget wages. Mining Crews earning less than AirAsia. They will continue to exploit for as long as we let them, very important especially those at VA not to take anymore haircuts, donít be apart of the race to the bottom.

Angle of Attack 18th Dec 2021 10:46

100k more? What’s that based on? Min guarantee? max hours? That’s a very general statement that is basically false. I think at the moment Jetstar Captains are on mid 200’s ? (Correct me if wrong) QF Shorthaul Captains are on about 230 on min hours but potentially could make high 300’s at max hours but that’s only a few hard arses. I’d say the vast majority are on mid to high 200’s in QF. The Shorthaul award is so vastly flexible compared to most other awards that there is no real set wage, you earn more if you work more.

neville_nobody 18th Dec 2021 11:32


A lot of work needs to be done in that space. Budget Airline does not mean budget wages. Mining Crews earning less than AirAsia. They will continue to exploit for as long as we let them, very important especially those at VA not to take anymore haircuts, don’t be apart of the race to the bottom.
And you propose to do this how? If you want to play hard ball then they will give a bunch of aircraft to a cheaper subsidiary. Even if there was a real pilot shortage they are just going to open the immigration floodgates and every African, South American and anybody else with a ATPL will fall over themselves to work here.

Your argument here is what management's argument is. We have the same aircraft flown safely by two different crews on vastly different salaries so how can we justify paying so much??

Buttscratcher 18th Dec 2021 11:38

Ok, I'll call bullshit.
I dont believe the J* line captains are working hard enough at the moment to get mid 200s

PoppaJo 18th Dec 2021 11:52


Originally Posted by neville_nobody (Post 11157746)
And you propose to do this how? If you want to play hard ball then they will give a bunch of aircraft to a cheaper subsidiary. Even if there was a real pilot shortage they are just going to open the immigration floodgates and every African, South American and anybody else with a ATPL will fall over themselves to work here.

Your argument here is what management's argument is. We have the same aircraft flown safely by two different crews on vastly different salaries so how can we justify paying so much??

My frustration lies in the fact that the previous proposed EBA before any pandemic came along, went backwards. Meanwhile the other guys go forwards. Even Cobham had a decent win. How can budget airline pilots work more for the same. One Euro operator tried that one, we will remove the pay freezes, lets increase min hours and hold the pay instead. Perhaps itís the union. I donít know, I keep getting told itís progressing well and something good is coming, when the reality is something flat or backwards.

However your point is correct. Perhaps future generations will have better luck. This isnít the decade to play hard ball sadly. You donít need to go to South Africa just yet, plenty in our own backyard at the moment.

Rabbitwear 18th Dec 2021 21:19

JQ Captain pay base salary $200,000. Based on 75hours.
captain base on flexiline, for 56 hours so equivalent to QF full time $149,900, close to half of QF mainline for the same hours worked.

Australopithecus 18th Dec 2021 23:41


Originally Posted by Rabbitwear (Post 11157954)
JQ Captain pay base salary $200,000. Based on 75hours.
captain base on flexiline, for 56 hours so equivalent to QF full time $149,900, close to half of QF mainline for the same hours worked.

Not half, but getting close to $70k less.

Buttscratcher 19th Dec 2021 01:06

.....what's 'flexline'?

shortshortz 19th Dec 2021 11:31


Originally Posted by Angle of Attack (Post 11157733)
100k more? What’s that based on? Min guarantee? max hours? That’s a very general statement that is basically false. I think at the moment Jetstar Captains are on mid 200’s ? (Correct me if wrong) QF Shorthaul Captains are on about 230 on min hours but potentially could make high 300’s at max hours but that’s only a few hard arses. I’d say the vast majority are on mid to high 200’s in QF. The Shorthaul award is so vastly flexible compared to most other awards that there is no real set wage, you earn more if you work more.

Do you just make up figures as you go?
QF line captain on "min hours" is on 53hrs pm vs JQ on 75hrs at a base less than QF. The "hard arses", as you put it, can then make an additional 47hrs OT to bring them up to 100 hrs pm at an overtime rate in excess of $80 ph more than JQ, even though JQ only have the ability to squeeze in 25 hrs OT to reach 100hrs pm. These "hard arses" who work similar hours to every JQ pilot (pre covid) then make in excess of $400k. The "vast majority" are on over $300k, and if you argue they're not, then they must be on not much more than 53hrs pm, which puts them similar to a JQ flexi-line pilot (part time) on $150k. No matter which way you slice it, QF sit on $100k more, for working less weekends, holidays, early shifts, with more support, significantly higher bonuses (4 fold), 3% pa currently, 13 rosters pa (again an ability to bank OT), easier EBA sign offs, ability to move to LH award, an open-time system, heck even 50 less pax per a/c. Basically false? Your whole statement is false.


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