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-   -   Project Winton- Airbus (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/644222-project-winton-airbus.html)

itsnotthatbloodyhard 16th Dec 2021 21:42


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11156986)
That was not my point. My point is old, set in their way 73 drivers will find it hard to adjust. Not all 73 skips have flown an Airbus.

I think you’ll find the QF 737 drivers are a relatively youthful bunch. A lot of the ‘old, set in their way 73 drivers’ moved on …. to the A330.

Jeez, every pilot at some point has never flown an Airbus. Are we perhaps making too much of a big deal about it?

das Uber Soldat 16th Dec 2021 21:53


Originally Posted by theheadmaster (Post 11156979)
You do realise Qantas mainline have been flying Airbus A330s since around 2002, and before that flew the ex-Australian Airlines A300? Boeing to Airbus and vice-versa is not a new thing at all for mainline.

Would this be the same 330s that Qantas had to retrofit the exterior light switches to work in reverse because Qantas pilots couldn't cope? :P

itsnotthatbloodyhard 16th Dec 2021 23:37


Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat (Post 11157027)
Would this be the same 330s that Qantas had to retrofit the exterior light switches to work in reverse because Qantas pilots couldn't cope? :P

No, that was done so the jets would be different to the sims, just to f#@k with us.

dr dre 16th Dec 2021 23:53


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11156986)
That was not my point. My point is old, set in their way 73 drivers will find it hard to adjust. Not all 73 skips have flown an Airbus.

Like I posted earlier there’s still going to be half of the 738 fleet flying for another 10-12 years. This replacement project goes to 2034. So plenty of opportunity for those to who want to stay on the aircraft to remain there. And with the numbers from the current fleet who’ll move the long haul there’ll probably be training onto the 73 until the end of the decade at least.

Here’s a prediction, as the latest 738s are younger than the youngest 330s the 737 will be around longer than the 330, which will probably be gone by decade’s end.

BuzzBox 16th Dec 2021 23:57


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11156975)
it will be interesting seeing how the 10+ yr 73 skippers adjust to Airbus philosophy.

This former Boeing captain converted to Airbus after almost 20 years on various Boeing types. The mindset is somewhat different, but it's certainly not hard to adjust. It's just another bloody aeroplane!

morno 17th Dec 2021 00:20


Originally Posted by SHVC (Post 11156986)
That was not my point. My point is old, set in their way 73 drivers will find it hard to adjust. Not all 73 skips have flown an Airbus.

I’ve flown with captains who have come from Boeing to Airbus, most haven’t had a problem because they are experienced enough to understand that things will be different and that it’s important to ensure you know your aircraft well. There are however a few who insisted on still flying it as closely as possible to a Boeing, and funnily enough they always had difficulty.

Is it true that Qantas doesn’t read the FMA out loud? That’s very against Airbus philosophy.

StudentInDebt 17th Dec 2021 00:23


Originally Posted by BuzzBox (Post 11157077)
This former Boeing captain converted to Airbus after almost 20 years on various Boeing types. The mindset is somewhat different, but it's certainly not hard to adjust. It's just another bloody aeroplane!

^^ This ^^


cynphil 17th Dec 2021 00:42

Is it true that Qantas doesn’t read the FMA out loud? That’s very against Airbus philosophy.[/QUOTE] Morno

Morno….I don’t know where you get your information or you just make SH…t up

Qantas has always read out the FMA on their Airbus fleets….

itsnotthatbloodyhard 17th Dec 2021 00:43


Originally Posted by morno (Post 11157082)

Is it true that Qantas doesn’t read the FMA out loud? That’s very against Airbus philosophy.

No, it isn’t true. Where do you get this sh1t from??

Capt Fathom 17th Dec 2021 00:43


Originally Posted by morno (Post 11157082)
Is it true that Qantas doesn’t read the FMA out loud?

They announce FMA changes softly so as to not disturb the passengers!

morno 17th Dec 2021 01:07

Sheesh, no need to get cranky over it. Simply an honest question.

cynphil 17th Dec 2021 01:15

It’s not an honest question when you start it with “ Is it true “………

rexxxxxy 17th Dec 2021 01:31

The C-Series/A220 is great for the customer. Big windows, quiet, and the widest middle seat in the sky - even a window in the lavs.

Going to be a good move to have that one in the fleet.

Rantallion 17th Dec 2021 01:32

How about we return to the topic of this thread…..

Project ‘Winton’ QF Domestic B737 replacement

lets discuss;

Will the current establishment of QF Shorthaul crews fly them?

QF SHEBA, what changes will be sought?

There’s a lot of hulls potentially to be ordered, what’s it going to take to keep the majority of them in mainline? Or has AJ diluted the group so far and wide that it’s going to be dog eat dog and a whole new low in terms and conditions?

Your thoughts everyone?




dr dre 17th Dec 2021 06:06


Originally Posted by Rantallion (Post 11157105)
How about we return to the topic of this thread…..

Project ‘Winton’ QF Domestic B737 replacement

lets discuss;

Will the current establishment of QF Shorthaul crews fly them?

QF SHEBA, what changes will be sought?

There’s a lot of hulls potentially to be ordered, what’s it going to take to keep the majority of them in mainline? Or has AJ diluted the group so far and wide that it’s going to be dog eat dog and a whole new low in terms and conditions?

Your thoughts everyone?

Everyone seems to jump immediately to the negative.

There’s no real indication why the 321XLR wouldn’t be flown by the pilots currently flying the aircraft they’re replacing. The routes currently flown by some 738s but also some 330s regionally.

Yes naturally it would fall to a SH arrangement, even if some say the replacement of the 330s means it should be flown under LH conditions.

Will efficiencies be sought to the SH in the next negotiations to confirm this? Probably, as what were wanted with the LH EBAs before the 787 and A350 were ordered.

Any subsequent contract probably wouldn’t be too bad, lots of worrying about the 787 and 350 conditions but in reality they both turned out to be pretty good deals.

No one seems to think the A220 will be flown by anyone but the outfit that currently flies the type they’re replacing - the 717.

hotnhigh 17th Dec 2021 06:29

Alan hasn’t actually ordered anything yet. So his record remains…..

C441 17th Dec 2021 06:45


It’s a true multi crew aircraft. it will be interesting seeing how the 10+ yr 73 skippers adjust to Airbus philosophy. Or QF will try and Boeingise it and change everything to re-invent the wheel.

That was not my point. My point is old, set in their way 73 drivers will find it hard to adjust. Not all 73 skips have flown an Airbus.
After 27 years on Qantas Boeings, I took the plunge and went to the 'Bus. It's probably the most difficult transition I've had but the training was excellent and followed the Airbus operational procedures exclusively. It's a training course designed for people who've flown any number and variety of previous types. The "10+ yr 73 skippers" will have no problems adjusting and those that are towards the end of their career will just stay there until the last 73 leaves if they cant be bothered with a 'Bus course.

Keg 17th Dec 2021 07:38


Originally Posted by morno (Post 11157082)
Is it true that Qantas doesn’t read the FMA out loud? That’s very against Airbus philosophy.

I’m wondering where it was that someone would have suggested this to you in the first place?!?!?

Apart from the Taxi/landing light switches being backward QF Airbus ops are otherwise all but identical to Airbus SOPs.

krismiler 17th Dec 2021 08:53

The introduction of EFIS back in the late 1980s was a problem for older pilots who were used to stream driven gauges. Together with fly by wire, it proved too much for a few who couldn't hack the transition.

These days, everyone is used to glass cockpits so it's basically ECAM handling and the flight control systems together with the Airbus philosophy that needs to be learnt. The bus has lots of built in protections if you get things wrong and I would say that going from Airbus to Boeing and losing much of the safety net would be quite challenging as well.

BuzzBox 17th Dec 2021 09:23


Originally Posted by krismiler (Post 11157196)
The bus has lots of built in protections if you get things wrong and I would say that going from Airbus to Boeing and losing much of the safety net would be quite challenging as well.

I've seen a few 'interesting' go-arounds in the simulator when Airbus pilots converting to Boeing have forgotten to press the TOGA switches. It gets even more interesting when they also forget to trim!




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