I assume they would build in Williams Landing in Melbourne, or take over Target’s new office who are looking at leasing it to someone else.

Dandrews has plenty on his plate as is but has found time to sharpen his pencil for a Qantas handout. He should be more worried about keeping the jobs that are already in Melbourne.

The furthest the HQ would move is circular quay.

Telfer86 Yeah not as interesting as your obsession with what Scale someone else gets paid.

Yes Telfer, it's all the fault of Aipa, they should have seen this whole situation all along. I would be happy with CR and start back on the lower scale, it's better than the work I am doing now to keep a roof over my head and my two kids fed. Then again, we really should have all voted down that EBA and put you in charge of negotiations. We would be in a much better position now. Looking forward to your nomination to work on the union.

Oh yeah, getting a 6% pay rise in the current environment is the ‘worst deal ever’ :rolleyes:

The downside you refer to would only occur IF there are pilots made compulsory redundant and IF Qantas order the A350 before they return. According to Qantas, for the time being, both of those things aren’t happening.

The only thing that is certain is when a pilot does fly or does use leave they will be paid 6% more than before AIPA signed the ‘worst deal ever’.

Not correct it's not "if & if" its back to year 1 regardless the only variable is current scale or new B scale which got voted up after shutdown

People seem to get very agitated & defensive about this , I just thought it was a very big blunder, voting in a B scale when a global pandemic
had been declared & international airlines shutdown

At least I don't have an obsession on numbers of flight crew turning 65 & pressuring them to retire. Likely a lot of senior LH will move to SH if any vacancies advertised

What size & shape do people think QF will be in a few years, especially international ? What will the plan be ?

Where do you see QF flying to OS say 12 months from now ? & what do you think the airfares will be ?

Let it goTelfer, or just go away, you are just embarrassing yourself here, if I get CR'd, I would rather be first year A350/ B787 pay than earning $20 an hour stacking shelves.
188 are taking VR, 260 are on LWOP, yet you keep banging about 220 and something that even hasn't happened yet. Jog on...

The ‘ignore list’ is awesome. You never have to read Telfer’s rantings again!

Maybe you would for six months after re-employment , but think most would be whinging very quickly when they saw the other SO next to them
who just dodged CR getting paid at least 50% more

Was more interested in where people saw the airline a couple of years out from here & where airfares will be at

The only thing you are interested in is spreading FUD.
You need to pick up the phone and ring AIPA, but you won't, because you are probably not a member, happy to save your 0.88% and chuck rocks at those who volunteer to give their time to better YOUR entitlements.
Get over mate, read up and see how little people give a toss about YOUR obsession.
PS: You are now on my ignore list

Telfer, Is it clear to you yet no one seem to give a rats-arse of your ramblings.

Norm is back under a different handle I suspect. My remotely possibe pay cut Telfer is offset by the CR payout in my case, hence I made the decision I did. If your CR payout wouldn't offset the risks, then glad you made the decision you did. Just stop blaming everyone else. Is it a great choice for anyone? No. We all want what we had.

If at worst I have to come back on a lower pay scale, then so be it. Still beats what I am doing now. I am flogging myself just to put food on the table for my kids. Should I join you and spend my precious remaining free time on here apportioning blame for my predicament?

This whole scenario is a mess, nobody saw it coming.

The best lesson to learn is that life isn't fair. Adapt and survive.

The lower rates would only apply to SOs and it’s very unlikely that Telfer is correct. Qantas are running out of threats.
He’s a company mole or most likely some pilot hating HR tool. Always surprises me why people who hate pilots so much do such a job.
AIPA and it’s pilot’s have a signed and sealed EBA. One that was authorised by fair work DURING the pandemic at the insistence of Qantas as Telfer suggests. Look at the TWU ground staff or Jetstar pilots that don’t have an EBA locked in.
Telfer is annoyed that it is signed and sealed and can’t be f&$#@ed with unless pilots are stupid enough to open it up and get shafted.
It’s unlikely that pilots agree to a variation. I think a team of Qantas lawyers will look to take advantage of pilots if they are silly enough to
open an EBA. Ask any decent lawyer and they will tell you not to open up or vary an EA in this environment.
If pilots agree to a variation by opening the EBA and Qantas end up legally shafting everyone, then Telfer will be calling everyone an idiot for not seeing it coming.
On this Issue we will find ourselves in agreement. You can’t have it both ways champ.

Don't worry Ducksnuts, I'm still here - just been busy working!

Is 260 on LWOP enough? I hope so, but according to the departed Tino it's not. No vaccine found in the next 6-12 months will probably result in Allan doing another 'fleet review'. That's when **** will hit the fan for redundancy's.

The VR/ER lawsuit appears to be a problem. If those pilots who can't let go of the golden goose turn out to be successful Qantas may just pull the pin on the entire operation. "We looked at VR as per the EBA requirements. Sorry it didn't work out, we are now commencing CR".

I remember Tino saying in a webinar that if Qantas got desperate they have a lot of commercial real estate and offices they can juggle. Yesterdays news from Venessa shows just how bad the situation is becoming. I'm sure Allan just wants a $200m slice of the pie from the QLD government.

The narrative is changing

Additionally, chatter indicating 180 day recency issues and promised “stand up” in turn being re-evaluated highlighted on Qrewroom.

Just like seniority, there will be winners and losers. Ces’t la vie.

So normanton, how much LWOP did you take?

The 180 day training issue is a cost to the company so needs approval from higher up. I believe Flt Ops are putting a very strong case to do this training bearing in mind the potential bottle neck if they don’t when demand ramps up. It’s not a one way street. If QF wants LH pilots to vote the EA variations up then they must give something back in return, whatever it is. I would suggest that LH pilots do have some negotiating power and the very least is to keep post 180 day training going.

No just a LH issue. Some in SH in MEL are looking at 180 day recency too. I take on board your comments however. My view is as the border shutdowns continue unabated and we continue to see 15-20% Domestic rather than 70% Flight Ops won’t have a say in the matter.

If I were the Northern Territory Government I'd offer $500m conditional on the operation based at Tennant Creek!

Clearly, the real estate review is not the most important matter at hand. What about those beards eh? :ugh:

I don't really care about 180 day recency. If QF decide to save money short term, it will cost them time and money in the longer term. It's up to them to assess and balance the risks. If there is a sudden upswing in flying out of Melbourne and Sydney (unlikely, I reckon) then they MIGHT get caught with their pants down - meh, their call. I've got enough to worry about without wondering whether my 180 day recency will lapse and if QF will have the time, money and training resources to fix the problem expeditiously on the other side.

Second quote first.
A close colleague spoke with a manager in the last few days. It seems the hold-up in processing the VR is not with the older cohort's claim but with a particular group who applied for VR but can't be replaced in the short term.

With that in mind, maybe 260 taking LWOP is enough (for now) and VR will be withdrawn or allowed to lapse on Nov 7th, possibly to be reviewed at a later date. The CP did mention a number of times yesterday that retaining cash is the imperative whilst domestic borders remain closed.

Which particular cohort may that be? 330 t&cs at a guess....
how does that hold things up

Even the 400 crew who realise that they’ve had their last flight can’t leave.
’Hotel California’ again!

“Can’t” leave? As far as I know indentured servitude is illegal in Australia, any pilot employed by any company can leave at any time with the minimum notice period.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2f123ffb3c.gif

bc

That doesn’t stack up. The Entire airline is in surplus.
Being a targeted program, the B744 applicants should have been out the door immediately.

A cynic (what!, on Pprune?) might suggest that the company has followed the requirements of EA10 15.10.1:

Subject to this Agreement, the Company will manage all necessary pilot reductions in a manner aimed at minimising the need for compulsory redundancies by considering all reasonable alternatives, including natural attrition, LWOP, voluntary redeployment, voluntary secondment and voluntary redundancies.

They've considered VR, even sought EoIs, decided it's not for them, and will now move on to CRs………Let's hope not.

Personally, I'm not that cynical and suspect VRs will go ahead eventually but there is some (probably financial) advantage in lumping all 188 applicants together.

I too wondered about the timing and figured that they could have let go of the 747 crew who had EOI’d the VR about a week after the applications closed. For whatever reason they’ve decided to do them all together.

I still reckon they’ll accept most/ all of those who have EOI’d. Even those in categories they’re possibly worried about replacing in the short term are likely to still be accepted though the timing for their departure may vary from everyone else.

Having offered VR, I reckon they’d get absolutely nailed if they said ‘no’ some of it and then went down the road of CR instead.

Re: 180 day recency issues

Consider this quote from treasury.gov.au about the purpose of JobKeeper:

Has Qantas been using JobKeeper for its intended purpose, or have they been pocketing the cash to help prop up the bottom line? Should the money have been used instead to keep everyone current?

Very good point!

^^^^^^. +1 :ok:

Pocketing it how?
The money we receive each fortnight wouldn't be paid without JobKeeper, unless I'm missing something?

​​​​​​
Mmmmm......Qantas get $1500 per fortnight from Scomo on my behalf. Qantas then pay me $1500 per fortnight whilst I am stood down.

Pretty pedestrian stuff at this point in the game.

I think the point being made that perhaps QF should have been rostering crew for a sim every 4 weeks and for the jobkeeper to contribute towards paying for that sim.

Jobkeeper would certainly cover the costs for any F/O to do 1 sim a fortnight. It wouldn’t quite cover the cost for a Captain. Of course it definitely wouldn’t cover the costs of the TREs, TRIs and sim instructors required to keep everyone doing a sim every month.

I suspect too there may have been some IR issues around whether a sim a month constitutes ‘useful work’. Personally I reckon it does but I’m not the legal beagle making the decision. Of course many crew may have also not been thrilled to be rostered for a sim every four weeks if they have other work and so on.

There’s no costs to the company in us sitting at home getting $1500. If we were kept recent, there would be a cost to the company and yet we would still be paid $1500. Therefore Qantas has a relative win by having us do nothing.

During a period of low revenue, it can be wise to delay expenditure. Even if that means it will cost more later.

Surely many of us on on Jobkeeper would be making similar decisions in our personal finances.

Why is this simple concept so hard to understand?

It’s not, I agree with you! But the 180 day issue that the company is facing, with only a small amount of pilots current, wouldn’t be rearing it’s ugly head if JobKeeper had been used as it was intended.

It amazes me that with all the **** happening around the world in airlines the positivity of certain people in saying things like "..even if it costs more later."

Qantas is not that special - there may not BE a "later".

If there is a later then the management of QF may have to decimate QF (and yes, "never waste a good crisis" mentality from management) to survive until "later"; that will include the pilot group.

Scoot, AirJapan have just laid off their expats...after 6 months or so of this crap, they are international carriers and have finally come to the conclusion there is no clear path regards international travel returning...so time to hunker down, layoff and downsize.
The ramifications of CV19 on air travel are ongoing, unknown and is perilous particularly to international carriers, domestic ops around the world arguably will return faster.
Crossover areas (EU requirements/controls Vs individual states preferences) - anyones guess how to satisfy (or not) everyone.

I DO believe QF will survive - but the next couple of years may see a bloodbath to achieve their survival.

For individuals to automatically assume no hassles for QF when so much ongoing carnage in aviation around the world - gutsy call, hope you're proven correct. :ok:

Cheers.