You may be right. I am of the impression that the focus of the initial trials have been on whether it stops disease. It might be that any one of the vaccines are also very effective at preventing infection. It’s not that they don’t prevent infection, it’s just that that hasn’t been the focus of the testing and they haven’t gathered the data yet (perhaps it requires widespread blood testing instead of simpler observations). We have the luxury of waiting and learning from millions of foreign citizens providing data to enable a calm (non-emergency) approval, which may be of a vaccine that’s highly effective at both.

If we find that the vaccines are highly effective at preventing infection, a combination of vaccines and rapid testing technology could lead to significant non-quarantine travel just months into 2021.

What’s more concerning is questions about which vaccine is acceptable/approved and how it’s documented. If Australia approves oxford and is satisfied that it prevents infection, would we let in someone who’s received Pfizer if Aus isn’t satisfied about its effectiveness yet?

Currently there is a difference between the designs of the stage 3 trials of the three leading vaccines.

The two messenger RNA vaccines were only evaluated by symptoms, not actual testing for the virus. The results are in the 90+% range.
The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine trial involved testing each participant weekly. The results are in the 70% range.

Because the trials were designed differently, the old apples/oranges comparisons are at work. And because of the different trial protocols, we don’t know really anything about if or for how long a vaccinated person may eventually become infectious without themselves ever getting sick.

Eventually these unknowns may prompt a rethink at the national level about compelling people to get vaccinated.

Currently about 70% of people aim to get vaccinated. If the vaccine is 70% effective at preventing infections, that still leaves about 50% of the population at risk, although with a reduced infection rate owing to at least partial herd immunity.

Annoyingly the spam folder missed David Andrew’s or it is Andrew David’s BS email about the Quaintarse family.

The rhetoric about a Qantas being a family is unrealistic. Parents don't fire or stand down their children without pay to cut costs.
Hope he’s enjoying his share options and a return to full pay.Meanwhile the stood down staff scrape by below the poverty line. Unpaid by Quaintarse and in government minimums.
Abusive family more like it.

The 'been everywhere' man.
He doesnt care about anyone,fits in perfectly with the rest of his smiling assasin executive team or whatever label they put on themselves.
Trouble is there are still people who believe what they say & think they care.

It's not a lie if you truly believe it...:rolleyes:

The war room must be busy, not even a happy new yr email or a rundown of the last 12 months, not that we want to be reminded.

They did that in the Xmas emails, there were a few

So now that it looks like domestic crew will be going back to the stand up/stand down merry-go-round again, what’s going to happen once jobkeeper finishes in March? Will everyone have to down tools to go find a job that pays consistently?

Some might wish they didn't go sick for the pre Christmas training on offer. Just some....

The newly announced PPP (Pilot Preservation Program) must surely be in doubt now with hard border closures all over the country. I note that attendance is compulsory.

Can the company force the program onto us? I gather that we will be stood up for maybe just a week or so. The ramifications for many people are huge if forced to isolate and therefore jeopardise their secondary employment. These secondary jobs are what is keeping food on the table and roofs over heads - not the paltry JobKeeper payments. Many people I speak to are extremely grateful for the lifeline handed to them by other companies, and won’t want to risk that. These such scenarios will continue to arise as flying increases and/or restrictions come and go and Qantas wants more and more flexibilities but doesn’t seem to want to pay for it.

I’m very happy there is finally recognition that we need to maintain our skills but at what point do we need to say enough is enough...we aren’t casual workers! Does AIPA have an opinion?

I am in this position you talk about. I have a full time job. I cannot jeopardise this and can’t just take a weeks leave every 3 months because Qantas want to stand me up for 4 days every 90.

I suspect that if people are unable to SU and participate in the PPP due to secondary employment then they will have to take LWOP This may well be a tactic to force more onto LWOP. Remember, Stand Down costs the company money (AL and LSL accrual).

Where/when was this PPP thing announced?

Nailed it!

I think the ball is in the company’s court while Jobkeeper is still going.

FSO came out just before Xmas

I hasn’t even considered that it was a ploy to force more onto LWOP. :bored:

First of heard of this PPP. There is no requirement to check company emails or documents whilst stood down so how would you know unless you were being advised you were being stood up first?

On another note, its a shame Australia continues to flounder in and out of lockdowns for very small cases, massive over reaction that is costing individuals untold stress and companies millions of dollars.

And now it appears we have a Prime minister who either due to his religious beliefs is dragging the chain on the vaccine or alternately have been caught out with his pants down and hadn't ordered enough vaccines as they were hoping the UQ vaccine was going to be a cheaper option.

Agree or disagree about vaccinations, one thing that is certain is it's the only thing now that will save Australia from the current stupidity and allow the borders to remain open.

I would be surprised if the PPP went ahead for those subject to border restrictions. They would have to pay you an extra 2wks for isolation and I think forcing you to go to a state with community transmission could create a legal minefield.

They’ve done it for LH and SH training when required.

When required to keep the operation going is likely a bit different. Forcing people to stand up, go interstate to do unnecessary training and then isolate for 2wks? For WA, if it’s medium risk, you may not even be allowed to return home.

Essential worker for required training is fine. This will keep the operation going (albeit in the future) as it’ll require less retraining just prior to operational stand up.