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-   -   All borders to reopen. (https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/632861-all-borders-reopen.html)

dr dre 23rd Jan 2021 14:13


Originally Posted by Joker89 (Post 10974377)

200 odd in ICU, actually looks like it’s under control.

Totally under control, that’s barely anyone in the ICU, I’m sure there’s heaps more space left.......

‘Urgent need of volunteers’ — Irish hospitals on the brink with just 26 ICU beds left in entire country


As is Sweden
They’re totally under control as well man, totally......

Covid-19 forces Swedish hospitals to delay 'necessary surgery' - Every one of the country's 21 regional healthcare authorities reported being in a "strained" or "very strained" situation, with the regions of Jönköping and Uppsala telling SR that they were having to postpone urgent operations on cancer or heart patients

But hey, just the flu right......

Joker89 23rd Jan 2021 14:25

200 out of 4 million people, what a disaster, median age of death 82

your link for Sweden is 2 weeks old, check the daily infection and death rates for the last few days.

you mention Sweden a lot yet you probably don’t know anyone living there or ever lived there yourself.

The only impact to normal people lives is the local
swimming pool and ice rink is closed. Kids still attending primary school. Grand parents not forbidden to visit their loved ones. And life goes on without the political bull crap Australia dishes out on a daily basis.

the fact is people get sick from a range of things, unfortunately some of these people die at an earlier age than is desirable. Can’t ever change that. You sprout a lot of garbage of health systems coming close to collapse. Where is the evidence of it actually happening. More people died in December 1993 in Sweden than April 2020. Also, there is basically zero flu now so look at excess mortality before preaching doomsday predictions.

morno 23rd Jan 2021 16:18


Originally Posted by Joker89 (Post 10974442)
You sprout a lot of garbage of health systems coming close to collapse. Where is the evidence of it actually happening.

California. Paramedics told not to transport patients to hospital who have a grim outlook, and I’m not just talking about Covid patients. Paramedics told to limit the use of oxygen, due to low supply.

I can’t be arsed finding links to the stories that proves it, but they’d be very easy to find.

Climb150 23rd Jan 2021 19:09


Originally Posted by morno (Post 10974527)
California. Paramedics told not to transport patients to hospital who have a grim outlook, and I’m not just talking about Covid patients. Paramedics told to limit the use of oxygen, due to low supply.

I can’t be arsed finding links to the stories that proves it, but they’d be very easy to find.

Seems to be a bit of a scaremongering by the news networks. This from NPR,

Well, actually, it is best practice to resuscitate patients in cardiac arrest in the field where they are found. That is our normal protocol in LA County. So the shift towards not transporting patients who do not have restoration of pulse is a relatively small change. These patients have very limited chance of survival. And so these are the patients that we're asking the paramedics to call in to our base hospitals, discuss with the base physician and determine if further resuscitation is futile and therefore terminate resuscitation on scene. We are continuing to resuscitate patients in cardiac arrest, and we continue to transport all patients in whom our paramedics are able to resuscitate in the field
Another gem from the same article,

And I say that because I see how people are still congregating in groups and making decisions to have family gatherings or New Year's parties. And these decisions are what continues to impact our health care system.

So the LA ambulance system is being overwhelmed by people who probably seem not to take advice seriously.





blubak 23rd Jan 2021 20:49


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10974333)
Could have used a mask, could have been in an empty part of the train, could have coughed/sneezed into the elbow, could have not been shedding at that time.....



Lineage-specific growth of SARS-CoV-2 B.1.1.7 during the English national lockdown

Covid-19: New variant raises R number by up to 0.7



Single clusters are rarely good to form conclusions from. We know that if strain B1.1.7 gets into the community it does spread more than previous dominant strains. This is seen in nations which have had large outbreak of it.

Take Ireland for example. For the most part they were doing a good job with the pandemic. That all changed with the new mutation becoming the dominant variant. Now their health system is beginning to reach capacity.

Numbers in ireland are down from 8000 a day to around 2000 with generally 60+ deaths per day.
Their govt are saying no relief from restrictions till at least end of feb however it seems you can still go for an overseas holiday with the govt response being,you shouldnt go!
Puzzles me somewhat when you read that & also only a requirement to have a test within 72hrs of returning.

dr dre 23rd Jan 2021 21:44


Originally Posted by Joker89 (Post 10974442)
The only impact to normal people lives is the local swimming pool and ice rink is closed. Kids still attending primary school. Grand parents not forbidden to visit their loved ones. And life goes on without the political bull crap Australia dishes out on a daily basis.

There’s a ban there on gatherings above 8, 10 sqm per person in public areas, ban on non essential entry from outside EU, total ban on UK and Denmark, non essential public buildings closed til Feb. Mask recommendations issued for the first time in December. Plus a lot of nursing homes have chosen to close to visitors so grand parents visits are limited. And High schools switched to remote learning. Life certainly isn’t back to normal there.


Where is the evidence of it actually happening.
You don’t think “necessary and urgent” heart and cancer surgery being delayed is a problem?


More people died in December 1993 in Sweden than April 2020. Also, there is basically zero flu now so look at excess mortality before preaching doomsday predictions.
They had their deadliest November since 1918. Excess mortality was clearly above average in 2020, as was the same in every European country.

Sweden’s strategy has given them a death rate 10 times higher than their Nordic brethren in Norway and Finland and 3 times higher than Denmark.

But the most telling thing is that even the King of Sweden admitted their strategy has been a failure. Their Prime Minister has admitted it was a failure. Even their Chief Epidemiologist back-pedalled. You can’t try to rehabilitate what they’ve done now if they themselves have admitted it was a mistake.

dr dre 23rd Jan 2021 21:50


Originally Posted by blubak (Post 10974690)
Numbers in ireland are down from 8000 a day to around 2000 with generally 60+ deaths per day.

That’s because the nation was been in a lockdown since the end of last month. Tough measures are working, but the pandemic is still a serious issue if you fail to do anything.

Ragnor 23rd Jan 2021 21:52

The main thing is Australia can almost open up domestically again, I’m busting for a holiday.

WingNut60 23rd Jan 2021 22:47


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10974724)
The main thing is Australia can almost open up domestically again, I’m busting for a holiday.

It's a bit hot in Broome at this time of year but our south coast regions are always good ................if you can get a booking!
Good luck with that.
Plus, of course, we don't know which "Denmark" you are supposed to be in.

KRviator 23rd Jan 2021 23:29


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10974724)
The main thing is Australia can almost open up domestically again, I’m busting for a holiday.

Why would anyone risk booking anything interstate? Someone only has to sneeze in Cobar and McGowan is likely to reinstate the hard border. I'm flabbergasted Anna-Stayaway "only" implemented a hotspot-based approach with the Avalon & Berala outbreaks. I mean, who would have thought someone at Dubbo would have less risk of bringing the Pestilence to Queensland than someone from Drummoyne? Everyone knows WA is the leader here, and the NT, Victoria, SA, Queensland and even Tasmania are all wrong with their health advice.

Nope, if I want a holiday, it'll be somewhere relatively local.

Turnleft080 24th Jan 2021 07:00


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 10974772)
Why would anyone risk booking anything interstate? Someone only has to sneeze in Cobar and McGowan is likely to reinstate the hard border. I'm flabbergasted Anna-Stayaway "only" implemented a hotspot-based approach with the Avalon & Berala outbreaks. I mean, who would have thought someone at Dubbo would have less risk of bringing the Pestilence to Queensland than someone from Drummoyne? Everyone knows WA is the leader here, and the NT, Victoria, SA, Queensland and even Tasmania are all wrong with their health advice.

Nope, if I want a holiday, it'll be somewhere relatively local.

Us lepers in Melbourne from July to Oct last year had wonderful local holidays.
It was called going to the supermarket and strolling the magnificent scenery of food items in
their natural habitat called shelves.

Global Aviator 24th Jan 2021 22:03


Originally Posted by Turnleft080 (Post 10974909)
Us lepers in Melbourne from July to Oct last year had wonderful local holidays.
It was called going to the supermarket and strolling the magnificent scenery of food items in
their natural habitat called shelves.

Gotta keep the humour alive!!!

People will travel.

The only difference is having a get out quick contingency plan!

Ragnor 24th Jan 2021 22:50

Ppl will travel and this mornings announcement will give the traveling public confidents now.

The next issue is, how will the state premiers react when there is a covid case July when most of the population is vaccinated.

NZ just went two months now they have that nasty strain even after a negative result this is here for the long term McGoose and Queen P need to accept that.

KRviator 24th Jan 2021 23:25


Originally Posted by Ragnor (Post 10975463)
NZ just went two months now they have that nasty strain even after a negative result this is here for the long term McGoose and Queen P need to accept that.

<sarcasm> Point of order, good sir. They are the Premier's of their states! They don't have to "accept" anything! The buck stops with them, remember! </sarcasm>

On a serious note though, all that means is they will likely mandate 4 weeks quarantine for interstate travelers, instead of 2 weeks. At the travelers expense remember.

After all, if you can afford to travel with the economy the way it is, you can afford to spend $8,000 in "hotel" quarantine costs! Unless you're a sportsman, actor, own a newspaper or are the BFF of a politician, in which case, you can quarantine wherever you damn well please....

Transition Layer 25th Jan 2021 13:31


Originally Posted by dr dre (Post 10974722)
That’s because the nation was been in a lockdown since the end of last month. Tough measures are working, but the pandemic is still a serious issue if you fail to do anything.

dr dre,

Are you by any chance an actual Doctor? You seem to have some very strong opinions on this topic. And you also seem to fail to empathise with Pilots who are advocating a loosening of State border restrictions in Australia, in the faint hope more of us will get back to work.

Australopithecus 25th Jan 2021 21:41

You don’t need to be a doctor to not empathise with the craven, self-serving cries to open borders and damn the torpedos. The pilots here advocating free travel seem to discount the public not actually wanting to fly to a hot spot. Even the borders that are open currently are not seeing paying loads on many of the few flights. Additionally, readers here have to wade through some real drivel and occasional anti-boomer screed which does not do your case any good.

Green.Dot 25th Jan 2021 22:48

Pax numbers certainly aren’t matching the hype that the airlines have been talking up even now that travel is unrestricted between many states.

School holidays are almost over- Feb and March will no doubt be underwhelming. Hopefully Easter & next school holidays will bring more joy, but this will all be subject to how many more knee jerks we see from leaders between now and then.

KRviator 25th Jan 2021 23:07


Originally Posted by Australopithecus (Post 10976145)
You don’t need to be a doctor to not empathise with the craven, self-serving cries to open borders and damn the torpedos. The pilots here advocating free travel seem to discount the public not actually wanting to fly to a hot spot. Even the borders that are open currently are not seeing paying loads on many of the few flights. Additionally, readers here have to wade through some real drivel and occasional anti-boomer screed which does not do your case any good.

Likewise, you don't need to be a pilot to understand the current "open-closed-open-partially closed (for now, we'll see tomorrow morning, maybe) - nope, still open for now" régime of the various *cough* leaders *cough* does nothing whatsoever to build confidence in the ability of Australian's to feel safe travelling interstate, without either being screwed over on arrival (WA) or on their return (Victoria/Qld). Look at that idiot Victorian Police Minister (or whatever he was) that said "I see no problem whatsoever driving non-stop from the Queensland Border tothe Victorian Border, if you want to get home" (slightly paraphrased, but you get the idea).

Why on earth would you book a holiday interstate if there's the slightest chance you could be up for 14 days quarantine on your return, assuming you actually made it to your holiday destination in the first place, or weren't forced to quarantine there?

As for the anti-boomer sentiment, I don't subscribe to it much, but it is undeniable that the major beneficiaries of the border closures (to 'keep them safe' remember) and resultant economic damage are the boomers, while those most affected by the economic carnage are those generations that follow...

morno 25th Jan 2021 23:13

My wife tells me that she’d like to travel to Sydney to see friends. No flippin’ way would I risk letting her because we certainly can’t afford 2 weeks quarantine if they suddenly close the borders. She agrees.

There’s what I imagine would be a pretty common conversation in many households in Australia right now.

Dannyboy39 25th Jan 2021 23:46


Originally Posted by KRviator (Post 10976186)
*cough* leaders *cough*..

Don’t do that, you’ll put the PPRuNe server into quarantine and no one from outside able to enter for 100 years.


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