Current SO here 787 Sydney

we are still operating under Covid ops so things are still changing quite quickly. it’s been a great journey so far, mostly good crew to work with. Admin side is a bit overwhelmed and you will have to self manage yourself to some degree. At the moment divisor is 170 hrs per 56 days so lots of flights up for grabs, hence the recruitment.

to answer your questions:
2) each trip is different with some leaving you more fatigued than others generally heading east during the day time will leave you more jetlagged than flying west at night. The company does provide you with time to recover from his jetlag.
3) at the moment our slips are between 2 to 3 days depending on the pattern usually most guys and girls have plans to get out and see things and even hire cars and get about this will only improve with the lifting of Covid restrictions
4) it can affect your family lifestyle. I just plan and adjust accordingly and my family support me on this
5) Absolutely. I love it. Being of your age. As long as your comfortable with not being PIC you can still have a very fulfilling career, with lots of different opportunities in operations, training, recruitment, safety, human factors, union etc…

go for it!

Their EBA is up on FWC if you want to find out pay rates and allowances etc.

Depends what you mean by "work". You can say that LH and SH both fly the same amount of stick hours, but LH crew spend some of that time in the bunk. In terms of days at work it would roughly be the same, expect that more of that time in International is spent in a slip port on a layover.

For the most part yes. Having said that you don't actually fly that many sectors vs SH (depends on your A/C but about 1/5th of the sectors of a SH aircraft roughly)

Quite a bit. For the most part still find time to socialise but the fatigue's always there in the background.

You can fit in a day trip every now and then, and some time to look at things in the layover city. But after you've ticked off the main highlights in any port that becomes less interesting and most layovers are usually spent doing normal things you would do at home like gym, exercise, study, reading, watching movies, occasional beer etc.

Depends on the relationship. You'll need your family to understand the lifestyle. You'll also have the advantage of being home free for 4-6 days at a time too. As a tip when you're away on a slip do things like study for sims, or other work you can do alone while away so your time at home can be devoted to family and friends as much as possible.

One advantage of LH is you can commute more easily, so can live several hours drive out of a major city if you choose without having to drive to work every 1 or 2 days

It's still your job as an SO to worry about the fuel and put your input into the operation. At some time you'll want to upgrade (now that there's a clear pay rise going from 78 or 350 SO to 73 FO) and it'll be pretty obvious to your trainers if you've switched your mind off in the backseat.

As far as interesting? Sometimes, but mostly no. You're there for cruise relief, and as time goes by the altitude at which you're allowed into the control seat gets higher and higher. There's some who have decided that's what they seek in life, but most want 3 and 4 bars eventually.

As far as time away in slip ports? Well some do love it, it suits their personality or lifestyle. Some loathe it.

The good thing is, assuming recruitment and movement levels return to pre Covid norms which they seem they will, is that upgrade time to SH is only a few years even in the most senior SH base so you can come back to that type of flying reasonably soon if you find the LH lifestyle doesn't suit you. Or remain in LH if you choose, it's good to have quite a few options.

How long to upgrade to FO from SO. I realize Captain is unlikely for those of us over 40. However one has to be realistic with regard to finances and retirement and weigh up the options that is best for them and their families?

Dash Trash and Dr Dre thank you kindly. Very helpful responses.

For me it is all about time with family and I don’t wanna spend 3 nights in LA or YVR…what are the shortest trips on the 787 and the 330?

Thanks,
AB

At the peak of pre 2020 training pretty much straight away for Perth base (slots offered to new recruits on day one), about 2 or 3 years for the Brisbane and the rest in the middle, I think Adelaide and Melbourne had some very junior FOs start at one point too, but not too long in all bases. At one point over a decade ago it was 5-7 years to the most junior FO position, so much better now.

3 day Asia, 4 day US and 5 day Londons. That’s assuming “normal” pre Covid trips and one flight a day to the destination, less than one a day and you’ll be spending longer in port. There are some longer trips too.

Thanks for the answer(s)

Now the magic question - how long for an East Coast short haul command?

I has got out to 20 years but hopefully some of the headwinds that caused that delay have abated.
Retirement age getting extended by 5 years and the shrinking of the mainline route network are seemingly behind us and they had a huge effect.
But…. who knows what new threat is around the corner.

Delta currently has time to command at 2.5 months, B737 NYC based (for those who want it). Gives some perspective.

Interesting to see helicopter drivers being included in the latest pre-requisites. Most multi-engine captains will be earning $170K-$200K but working 40+ hrs a week for it. Might be tempting but not sure if too many will have a current IPC (MEA). I wouldn't aspire to command at my age (closer to 50 than 40) but I think I could cope with SO/FO for the rest of my career pretty happily.

Wow if that number is true that’s got to be something like 70-80% of the total pilots in the group (including all JQ and Qlink entities).

Still shows a mainline seniority number is one of the most sought after things in Australian Aviation

I heard 1200, total. Sounds more reasonable.

JQ might forecast a mass exodus. There has been a few positions going lately. Lots of WB positions even.

Carrot dangling? Fos bored of narrow body, entice them to stay with a wide body FO spot, and get the wide body FOs interested in a 320 command?

I don’t think there is any carrot dangling. I think JQ are short as with tech crew, a number of retirements announced and there will be a lot more soon, Ppl getting the sack and others just leaving. JQ will be short I wonder how many they will actually release.

Interesting to see with all this movement whether Tamworth will firm up as a new base for LH QF?

Any huge change in these numbers (with thanks to Keg) from 2018?

It also shows that life on the relatively unsupported and undervalued periphery of the operation has knobs on it. Of the dozen or so pilots I know who fly for these peripheral operations, all but one of them have applied and as one of those guys says, he would run from his operation like it was a burning house.

Is it not at all concerning for manager's of theses groups (in particular JQ) that all your FOs and some captains want to leave? No matter what stage they are in their career, or what position they are on the JQ seniority ladder, they are signing up to be SO's and for those over 35, probably never have a command. All of this rather than work at JQ? Would management even be aware of how many apply, Doubt it.....but that's a pretty big vote of disapproval for JQ. Yes, the $ is less but time to upgrades are quicker so you would think it wouldn't be that different in the long-run. Can't just be about the $.