TIGER Airways could be grounded beyond August 1, if it fails to meet all safety requirements, CASA has warned.

Any further delays to return to the skies will cause more frustration to passengers who had booked flights, causing the cancellation of 60 flights - affecting about 9000 passengers - every day.

The airline failed to act on warnings given by the aviation safety regulator over a frustrating three month period, it has been revealed.

John McCormick, director of Aviation Safety at the Civil Aviation Safety Authority, has today described the drawn-out process that eventually lead to the suspension of Tiger Airways.

He said CASA would complete its investigation by or before August 1, 2011, but warned the airline would not automatically return to the skies.

Tiger, Cheetah, Lion?? I thought these were Apple mac operating systems!!

The Age, 27th July, 2011
Tiger Airways expected to fly again on August 6
:D:D:D

So have crews been put through some sim program during this time or has everyone lost recency?

The Tiger crews have been doing sim training at the Ansett sim facility.

Does anyone out there think CASA will treat Thai and Virgin the same way as they treated TT, CASA used the Avalon incident as there reason for the grounding. Thai had an incident over Sunshine on the 24th and Virgin had a similar incident on the 19th at Mackay?

Suggest you read the whole thread, at least from just before the grounding. The AV incident was THE FINAL STRAW, not THE reason. Much more to the story. So, to answer your question, probably not.

From the ATSB web site, the Virgin "Mackay Incident" was descent outside controlled airspace. Certainly not condoning such actions but it's a bit of a stretch to compare with flight below minimum safe altitude.

Reading the previous posts you have then got to decide what is Fact and what is Fiction (Rumor Net), are these people in the know i.e. CASA or Tiger employees, there are a lot of Tiger hunters out there who would like to see them hunted to extinction from the Australian Skies and would knock them at any chance that would arise. In the few years that they have trolling the plains of the Australian skies they had managed to take 30+ % of the domestic market. Since the grounding both CASA & Tiger have been pretty quiet, is CASA taking aim the fire the FATAL shot or TIGER getting ready to pounce and bite back. Personally I hope Tiger pounce back with a vengeance.

Like Ryanair in Europe everybody dishes them but they still get bums on seats.

P.S. I don’t work for CASA or TIGER.

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From the ATSB web site, the Virgin "Mackay Incident" was descent outside controlled airspace. Certainly not condoning such actions but it's a bit of a stretch to compare with flight below minimum safe altitude.

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So does it depend on the severity of the "operational non-compliance" to what action they take to me CASA have now set precedence?

We are all fast at jumping on the band wagon stating hearsay or rec room gossip or as stated on a previous post a "stewardess told me".

Is there any one that has posted on this thread been at any of the talks with CASA & Tiger that could state all issues that have lead to the grounding?

Thank you people for pointing out my error I was thinking about the share holding that Sin have in Tiger, you are quite correct they only have about 5% share of the market. I have been having trouble all day trying to reply to your comments so I have taken this route.

30%? PLEASE!!! Send me the contact details of your dealer. Whatever it is you're smoking, I WANT SOME!:rolleyes::rolleyes:

30% of the market? With 10 jets?

Probably 30% of the bogans in Australia. Certainly not 30% of the market.

Quote:

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30% of the market? With 10 jets?

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30%? PLEASE!!! Send me the contact details of your dealer. Whatever it is you're smoking, I WANT SOME!

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That was an error on my part I was thinking of company shares owned by sin, there market share is about 5%.

Quote:

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Probably 30% of the bogans in Australia. Certainly not 30% of the market.

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As for the "BOGAN" term that gets branded about referring to a lower class of the population we will all soon be "BOGANS" with the way this country is taxing us.

I myself must be a "BOGAN", from a working class background studied hard and have now spent 29 years in the industry Military and Civilian.

And I have seen just as Many "BOGANS" waiting to board QF, J* & VA flights.

Tiny1 how did you arrive at ?

This link is for Qld only but shows about 6% market share to Tiger.

http://www.tq.com.au/fms/tq_corporat...Published).pdf

This article claims 6% nationally.

News analysis: The plight of Tiger Airways | Travel Weekly

This article claims about 5% nationally.

Flight of Tiger from Australia far from certain

This strategy guarantees that the AV incident will never be repeated:
Tiger expected to quit Avalon

1 week to take off
 

GROUNDED airline Tiger Airways Australia expects to be cleared to fly again shortly, possibly from next Friday.

The air safety regulator has not yet lifted Tiger's suspension but today issued the airline with a set of formal conditions it has to meet before it can resume flights.

Tiger's grounding runs until Monday but the airline has indicated that Friday, August 5, is the earliest that its domestic flights may resume.

"As a result of the progress made since 1 July 2011, Tiger Airways Australia is confident that it can comply with these conditions and expects to resume services in the near future," a statement by its Singapore-based parent company Tiger Airways Holdings said.


Read more: Tiger expects quick clearance to fly | News.com.au

I hear on the grapevine today that Tiger will re-commence ops with only two aircraft and be permitted to increase the number only after satisfying CASA that they are fully compliant.

Word is JQ want as many as 20 TGR CPT's to employ as direct entry's.

Also hearing TGR fo's have been offered jobs with JQ....

not sure if EBA or contract!!

The EBA is CR@P, but it is the E.B.Agreement. To date, the Jetstar contract offers have been nothing short of scandalous.

I have friends in Tiger, and I hope they remain solid.

If they offer you anything but the EBA, just point them in the direction of the Federal court, and don't lose sight of the battle and sacrifices your fellow pilots have, and still are, waging.

Muff you are dreaming mate....

Muff: Word is JQ want as many as 20 TGR CPT's to employ as direct entry's.
Sunstar: Muff you are dreaming mate....

Sorry but why would working for JQ be 'dreaming'

Nightmare per chance?

How many TGW Drivers want to work for the QF group these days? Thats right, none. Alot have already been there in the past and dont want to go back which is why next to nobody have jumped ship over the past 4 years.

Most have gone to Strategic, who are getting a few more A330's soon, so there goes the next lot of Tiger guys (most are 330 rated), otherwise a few have headed for EY and co.

Given the Singapore connections of both Virgin and Tiger, watch for a new Tiger to appear that will be Virgin's LCC in Australia, i.e JB will have QF surrounded in the same way as Dicko surrounded Brett with QF and JQ.

Vale QF

Sunstar,

I'm not dreaming, word is there was a meeting today with all unions present and the cards were layed on the table for the dec's.

Also, the whispers were that around 40 MOU spots will be up for grabs!

Maybe September or October or December the way it looks. Seems like CASA is treating it like a whole new AOC

The initial grounding was set to expire this week, but Mr Gibson says the company should not expect to be back in the air any time soon.

"Right now the civil aviation authority can't give a time frame on when we might be in a position to make a decision about whether Tiger can fly again," he said.

"There are still a lot of issues to be worked through - Tiger still has to do a lot of work."

Tiger to remain grounded 'for some time' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

In the Australian today they say Tiger are reluctant to meet one of the requirements by CASA. My bet is CASA want Tiger to take control of the initial endo training. ie no more pay up front and get it where you like.

SN

If that was the case then J* and Virgin would have to meet the same requirement. What I don't understand is that CASA are saying that Tiger's paperwork is not up to the required standard. What happened to the paperwork that was presented for their original AOC application? Or is it a case of if you start small then there is less paperwork required. CASA should be held to account for why Tiger was allowed to start in the first place.

As for DEC for Tiger Captains into J* they need to have a good look at what happened to the last batch of DEC's in 2008. The other issue is that if Tiger were grounded because of an apparent lack of appropriate standards in pilot training why should they be going to J* as DEC?

I believe there is a subtle difference. Isn't it the case with Virgin that a prospective pilot is compelled to do their endorsement at Alteon in BN because Virgin have an arrangement with this provider. I don't believe you can just help yourself to a 737 endorsement anywhere and start work for them. Although that begs the question that a pilot who is A320 endorsed goes to work for Tiger, they also do not go through a provider aligned with the AOC holder.

I doubt that this would be the major sticking point, it is more about the standardisation issues once inducted into the airline regardless of where the pilot got their endorsement.

When VB first started pilots were getting their endorsements all over the world. What are the pilot training issues at Tiger? I haven't seen any information that elaborates on what the specific problems are.

Lucky "Tiger" hasn't had any engines fall off a plane :(or an emergency like othe australian airlines :eek: if they did would CASA ever let them fly again.:ugh:

well done lookleft
 

Finally someone with an objective view instead of all the Tiger hunters. Sorry this stinks of a conspiracy just like what happened to Compass through the pressure of the TAA and Ansett Duopoloy!

Look for the boys to be doing circuits at AV under supervision of, and at the request of CASA. Believe it or not.:eek:

I recall a CASA spokesman making comment that they are a little concerned with the "pay for your own training" and get your endo wherever thing, they did not mention Tiger specifically though. Although quite legal I think it looks a bit GA ish'.

Normally an airline would employ the odd pilot with an "off the shelf" endo but not the bulk of their pilots, and then they would be given extra sim and line flying to adapt to co procedures.

SN

Edit: I understand its not new, VB, JQ and many others have done it years ago. Perhaps they are picking that point because its something Tiger do differently.

Tiger has just announced they lost an average of A$190,000 per day over the last 3 months in Australia up to 30 June 2011. CASA will not be happy with this revelation.

Soup Nazi says earlier
Would be a small victory for common sense if this is the case.

How many millions has this grounding cost Tiger to date? A type rating bonding scheme would have been quite cheap in reality..

Quit your Jibba Jabba fool!

Quick calculations says they need to raise average fares, and thats based on previous operating expenses, by $50 per sector average.

If I assume an increase in $4m PA in operating expenses, a $50 increase would give them a $3m profit PA.

SUMMARY - You cannot operate in Australia with average $79 fares. And thats about all Tiger ever got

For those that haven't heard or read, the Federal Court adjourned proceedings and the airline will at the least be suspended until 11 August. A further Directions hearing is listed for that date.


Further to what others have said above

No they didn't.

They lost $19 million between April-June, $7m of which was the "deferred" tax offset, and they Volcano cost the company over $10m.

If it wasn't for the Volcano or the Tax offset, well then the loss would haven been minimal.

Folks,
With the latest CASA deferment of any resumption of operations by Tiger, looks to me like CASA are using the "ever changing goalposts" strategy so familiar to GA AOC operators, too numerous to mention, that have fallen foul of the infinitely variable interpretations of our ratbag rules.

Doesn't anybody remember the Virgin Blue star-up, delayed for months by CASA ever changing paperwork demands, cost Virgin a motza, they completely missed the Olympics boost to air travel.

The easiest decision for a public servant to make is to say NO!, it will never come back to personally haunt him, her or it. If somebody courageously says YES, they have made a decision that may bounce back.

Having said NO! about something even more sacrosanct in the public mind than motherhood, "air safety", saying YES is doubly fraught.

In a case like this, I actually feel quite sorry for the worker bees in CASA, I would like to hear somebody a little more "authoritative" than "Minutes to Live"( aka. "Crash") Gibson having something useful to say to the public.

All this stands in total contrast to the US FAA/NTSB approach, where the press releases on alleged non-compliance are rather brutal, but at least everybody (including the traveling public) knows what the alleged problem is, and what changes FAA are demanding ---- and can make a judgement about the likelihood of success of demanded changes.

Tootle pip!!

Virgin's start date was delayed, but they were operating before the Olympics started (just).

GAFA,
Like I said, delayed for months, and missed a boost from the Olympics -- see the rules about advertising/selling anything until you have a AOC.
Tootle pip!!

Interesting to see SQ has placed Capt Gerard Yeap Beng Hock as a non-executive Director of Tiger immediately to no doubt protect their Tiger investment.

Capt Yeap is the Senior Vice President Flight Operations of SQ and rated on the A310, B747 and B777. He is also a member of the IATA Operations committee.

With the change of Chairman at Tiger and Capt Yeap it will be interesting to see the changes and if Tony Davis survives.