Am I dreaming or have I seen all this before ?
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Am I dreaming or have I seen all this before ?
I well remember a similar scenario involving a TN B737 in May '89
&
I seem to also remember an even earlier incident (possibly a D9S) maybe 20-25 years ago, so how come it happens again ????
http://www.abc.net.au/news/australia/qld/metqld-12jun2003-18.htm
I thought we were supposed to learn from "history", especially in this aviation game. 
Disco Stu
&
I seem to also remember an even earlier incident (possibly a D9S) maybe 20-25 years ago, so how come it happens again ????
http://www.abc.net.au/news/australia/qld/metqld-12jun2003-18.htm
Posted: Thur, 12 Jun 2003 15:17 AEST
Safety body investigates highway landing strip incident
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is investigating an incident in north Queensland in which a Qantas Link passenger jet came within 200 metres of landing on the Bruce Highway, just north of Mackay.
Authorities say the pilot managed to take evasive action after air traffic controllers alerted him to the potentially fatal approach late last month.
The 717 service from Brisbane eventually made a safe landing at Mackay Airport about 8:30pm.
The bureau's deputy director of air safety investigation, Alan Stray, says an inquiry into the incident is underway .
"The aircraft was observed by the air traffic controllers to be diverging to the right of the runway approach, and when it was at an altitute of about 600 feet the controller instructed the pilot of the plane to climb," he said.
"The aircraft went around and then completed an uneventful landing."
"The controllers took very responsible, timely action, but our investigation will be looking at the broader issues."
Safety body investigates highway landing strip incident
The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is investigating an incident in north Queensland in which a Qantas Link passenger jet came within 200 metres of landing on the Bruce Highway, just north of Mackay.
Authorities say the pilot managed to take evasive action after air traffic controllers alerted him to the potentially fatal approach late last month.
The 717 service from Brisbane eventually made a safe landing at Mackay Airport about 8:30pm.
The bureau's deputy director of air safety investigation, Alan Stray, says an inquiry into the incident is underway .
"The aircraft was observed by the air traffic controllers to be diverging to the right of the runway approach, and when it was at an altitute of about 600 feet the controller instructed the pilot of the plane to climb," he said.
"The aircraft went around and then completed an uneventful landing."
"The controllers took very responsible, timely action, but our investigation will be looking at the broader issues."
Disco Stu
Last edited by Disco Stu; 13th Jun 2003 at 17:41.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Hiya Stu - how the 
are ya??..and that beautiful woman of your's?
Yep, happened before - probably in low vis conditions (rain, low cloud) when, even with the wipers working flat out (oh for the days of rain repellant - that stuff was truly magic) - lights are a fuzzy blur.
With an ILS, the centre line tracking is pretty accurate, but with a VOR DME approach - even using IRS - the proximity of the highway lights to the airport, at Mackay, is miniscule.
Add to that the fact that the FIRST lights the pilots are probably going to see are those of the MRD (Main Roads Dep't) and NOT the runway lights, and now the "come in spinner" factor is introduced.
Certainly DME and track miles should give a clue, however in sh!tty conditions .5 or .7 of a mile can easily go unnoticed, or dismissed as an error.
Anyway full marks to the boys in the Tower.
You weren't on, by any chance, Binos???
are ya??..and that beautiful woman of your's?Yep, happened before - probably in low vis conditions (rain, low cloud) when, even with the wipers working flat out (oh for the days of rain repellant - that stuff was truly magic) - lights are a fuzzy blur.
With an ILS, the centre line tracking is pretty accurate, but with a VOR DME approach - even using IRS - the proximity of the highway lights to the airport, at Mackay, is miniscule.
Add to that the fact that the FIRST lights the pilots are probably going to see are those of the MRD (Main Roads Dep't) and NOT the runway lights, and now the "come in spinner" factor is introduced.
Certainly DME and track miles should give a clue, however in sh!tty conditions .5 or .7 of a mile can easily go unnoticed, or dismissed as an error.
Anyway full marks to the boys in the Tower.
You weren't on, by any chance, Binos???
Just Binos
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Nope, wasn't me, Kaptin. Still more to come out of this one, but I'm not at liberty to say anything.
Edited to add that 89 Steps to Heaven, who wanders into these forums every so often, was the alert controller involved. Well done, that man.
Edited to add that 89 Steps to Heaven, who wanders into these forums every so often, was the alert controller involved. Well done, that man.
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The 73 lining up on Nebo Rd became part of a much larger barney of course. On a lighter note, I recall that legend at the time had it that on the go-round and subsequent circut, the only semblence of checks called was, 'Is the gear down". Reply, 'Yeah mate'.
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The 737 incident was 14th May 1989. I do not remember the outcome of either the airline's own investigation (got overtaken/lost in the events Aug 89 - Mar 90) or the then BASI report either.
Will await with interest the outcome of this one though.
G'Day Kap, Bino's
Disco Stu
Will await with interest the outcome of this one though.
G'Day Kap, Bino's
Disco Stu
The Reverend
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Not having operated Australian domestic, what kind of approach plates are you guys using here? Jeppesen in my last life, was very specific in warning of potential wrong approaches onto proximity airfields on the same alignement or highways?
PPRuNeaholic
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Well isn't this some sorta reunion? 
We got the Kaptin, we got Binos and, o' course, Disco Stu! 
How ya doin guys... long time no see! Sorry that I can't add anything to the discussion, but I just needed to say g'day, I'm pished! 
We got the Kaptin, we got Binos and, o' course, Disco Stu! How ya doin guys... long time no see! Sorry that I can't add anything to the discussion, but I just needed to say g'day, I'm pished!
Just Binos
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Hot Dog,
How do you define same alignment? The original TN 737 incident was apparently to a road aligned 190M. I say apparently because I believe the crew clammed up and took the 5th. Can't pre-empt the investigation on this latest one, but local rumour would indicate the result won't be any better. I know when I'm driving down said road, aircraft on final 14 cross me at an angle of at least 60 deg.
Kaptin M is on the bell I think. Amazing how many local pilots who have declared it would be easy to make the same mistake without factoring in low cloud and drizzle.
Hiya Kap, Stu. Keep up the good work, Oz.
How do you define same alignment? The original TN 737 incident was apparently to a road aligned 190M. I say apparently because I believe the crew clammed up and took the 5th. Can't pre-empt the investigation on this latest one, but local rumour would indicate the result won't be any better. I know when I'm driving down said road, aircraft on final 14 cross me at an angle of at least 60 deg.
Kaptin M is on the bell I think. Amazing how many local pilots who have declared it would be easy to make the same mistake without factoring in low cloud and drizzle.
Hiya Kap, Stu. Keep up the good work, Oz.
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Eeer Binos, Post Count Police here pull over please sir.
Thank you sir, did you know that you were posting without the correct Post Count displayed and do you have any reason for this please sir?
Thank you sir, did you know that you were posting without the correct Post Count displayed and do you have any reason for this please sir?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Hale, hale the gang`s all here - anyone seen Gaunty?? I have a sneeking suspicion he might have been peeking in 
It`s been a while since I made the VOR DME approach at Mackay, however if true to form, like most VOR approaches, the MKY one more than likely also leaves you at an oblique angle to the runway, and probably with Mount Nebo Road more aligned to the final approach course than R/W 14.
Winstun`s idea of putting covers on top of the street lights is worth consideration, as might be having strobe "lead in" lights.
It`s been a while since I made the VOR DME approach at Mackay, however if true to form, like most VOR approaches, the MKY one more than likely also leaves you at an oblique angle to the runway, and probably with Mount Nebo Road more aligned to the final approach course than R/W 14.
Winstun`s idea of putting covers on top of the street lights is worth consideration, as might be having strobe "lead in" lights.
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Was the aircraft actually doing the 14 VOR/DME or circling?
I can't see how you can line up on anything other than the RWY if you stay on the 14 VOR/DME. I have done this approach many times, and at the minima - approx 500ft AGL the RWY is only at a slight angle offset.
However if your circling at MK at night in marginal WX - then thats a different story. Dont try it, go for the VOR/DME.
I can't see how you can line up on anything other than the RWY if you stay on the 14 VOR/DME. I have done this approach many times, and at the minima - approx 500ft AGL the RWY is only at a slight angle offset.
However if your circling at MK at night in marginal WX - then thats a different story. Dont try it, go for the VOR/DME.
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Look you experts can speculate all you bloody like. Why don't we wait for the report. Immediately you bloody all choose pilot error, how about the controller over reacting. Yeah that's right ,has a controller ever made a mistake?
Just Binos
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But Officer Woomera, you don't understand... 
HH, the aircraft had just completed a 14 VOR/DME.
But fear not, seekers of the truth, the media has come to our rescue. Oh, you're gonna just love this one, guys and girls.
Daily Mercury 14th June
PASSENGER TERROR
TWO passengers at the centre of a potential air disaster are outraged at the wall of silence surrounding the incident.
World travellers Ran and Robyn MacDonald were sitting in the sixth row of the Qantas Boeing 717 which almost landed on the Bruce Highway south of the City Gates on May 29.
They know it might have been only a matter of seconds between them surviving and disaster.
The plane was just 200 metres (600 feet) off the ground when it aborted the landing.
Mackay aviation experts said it was likely, from that altitude, the plane would have taken only about 60 seconds to land and would have been been travelling between 180kmh and 200kmh on touch down.
The couple has travelled the world for the past 30 years.
They compared the fear they felt during the ordeal to that experienced while on board an Egypt Air jet air bus which aborted a take-off at high speed and skidded down the runway.
"We went in for a normal descent, although the pilot seemed to be on and off the throttle quite a bit," Mrs MacDonald said.
We were heading down at probably a 45-degree angle (!!!!!!) and then we felt the plane start to ascend steeply. It pushed us back in our seats a bit but I was still looking out the window," Mrs MacDonald said.
"I heard the landing gear come down before the first attempt and the cabin crew was told to be seated and prepare for landing a couple of minutes before we made the ascent.
"There was a public announcement and some of the passengers were talking among themselves before that, but after the announcement it was silent."
Mr MacDonald said the plane then circled for about 30 minutes before a second attempt to land was made.
"We were just up there circling in zero visibility. There was nothing but cloud. It was a complete white-out.
"It was real white-knuckle and sweaty palms stuff for me, very worrying. When I got home I made a note of it in my diary: May 29, scary landing.
"I kept thinking there must be something very wrong with landing systems if it took the pilot half an hour to be able to attempt another landing."
The couple called for an urgent review of landing safety procedures and scolded authorities for failing to inform the public or the Mackay Port Authority of the incident.
"This is a matter of public safety," Mr MacDonald said.
"It shouldn't be hushed up. This should have been brought to light immediately and the problems addressed.
"Mackay Port Authority, Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) and QantasLink need to urgently review and upgrade their landing and safety protocols," he said.
End of article.
I hardly need to add this was splashed on the front page.
The Daily Mercury thoughtfully provides a link where people grateful for their quality journalism can let them know how appreciated their efforts are. As a private citizen I'm sure others would like to join me in thanking them.
http://www.dailymercury.com.au/Pone.htm
HH, the aircraft had just completed a 14 VOR/DME.
But fear not, seekers of the truth, the media has come to our rescue. Oh, you're gonna just love this one, guys and girls.
Daily Mercury 14th June
PASSENGER TERROR
TWO passengers at the centre of a potential air disaster are outraged at the wall of silence surrounding the incident.
World travellers Ran and Robyn MacDonald were sitting in the sixth row of the Qantas Boeing 717 which almost landed on the Bruce Highway south of the City Gates on May 29.
They know it might have been only a matter of seconds between them surviving and disaster.
The plane was just 200 metres (600 feet) off the ground when it aborted the landing.
Mackay aviation experts said it was likely, from that altitude, the plane would have taken only about 60 seconds to land and would have been been travelling between 180kmh and 200kmh on touch down.
The couple has travelled the world for the past 30 years.
They compared the fear they felt during the ordeal to that experienced while on board an Egypt Air jet air bus which aborted a take-off at high speed and skidded down the runway.
"We went in for a normal descent, although the pilot seemed to be on and off the throttle quite a bit," Mrs MacDonald said.
We were heading down at probably a 45-degree angle (!!!!!!) and then we felt the plane start to ascend steeply. It pushed us back in our seats a bit but I was still looking out the window," Mrs MacDonald said.
"I heard the landing gear come down before the first attempt and the cabin crew was told to be seated and prepare for landing a couple of minutes before we made the ascent.
"There was a public announcement and some of the passengers were talking among themselves before that, but after the announcement it was silent."
Mr MacDonald said the plane then circled for about 30 minutes before a second attempt to land was made.
"We were just up there circling in zero visibility. There was nothing but cloud. It was a complete white-out.
"It was real white-knuckle and sweaty palms stuff for me, very worrying. When I got home I made a note of it in my diary: May 29, scary landing.
"I kept thinking there must be something very wrong with landing systems if it took the pilot half an hour to be able to attempt another landing."
The couple called for an urgent review of landing safety procedures and scolded authorities for failing to inform the public or the Mackay Port Authority of the incident.
"This is a matter of public safety," Mr MacDonald said.
"It shouldn't be hushed up. This should have been brought to light immediately and the problems addressed.
"Mackay Port Authority, Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) and QantasLink need to urgently review and upgrade their landing and safety protocols," he said.
End of article.
I hardly need to add this was splashed on the front page.
The Daily Mercury thoughtfully provides a link where people grateful for their quality journalism can let them know how appreciated their efforts are. As a private citizen I'm sure others would like to join me in thanking them.
http://www.dailymercury.com.au/Pone.htm
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What a bloody disgrace. 89 steps were u one of the 2 world travellers interviewed. Sounds like he wasn't visual and did a bloody go around. Re entered the holding pattern for another go.