Still flying after Ansett - Vol 3 - if allowed.
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OhBehave and TheNightOwl, RTFP! (- ‘P’ for ‘post’). MTOW is disputing the ‘kickback’ comment, just as you are. OhBehave, how in the hell did you come up with calling MTOW ‘paranoid’ when he was agreeing with you? I think you’re so dug in to ‘your trench’ that you’re just assuming any post from ‘the other side’ must be hostile and therefore you MUST disagree with it.
MTOW offers his opinion, (he even calls it that) that the Australian Media were partisan in their reporting during the Dispute. You may disagree with that, (how, is beyond me, but I accept that you too are entitled to your opinion). Having lived through it, I also believe that the Media slanted their news heavily to the Companies’ point of view. Rupert Murdoch, owner of Ansett, owned a large slice of the Australian print media, while the ABC was then (and still are?) staffed almost entirely by the Bob Hawke Adoration and Glee Club, so that shouldn’t come as any surprise.
If you accept that, even without the ‘tall poppy syndrome’ lurking just below the surface in many Australians, is it any wonder that the Australian public, 99.9% of whom gleaned virtually everything they knew about the Dispute from the Media, were so virulently against the pilots? Besides, they were being inconvenienced and someone had to be to blame – who else but the driver who was refusing to drive as the obviously totally guilty party?
For anyone not aware of the Australian ‘tall poppy syndrome’, ask yourself how many times you’ve been in a bar, party or at some friend’s place for dinner and some bloke you’ve just met learns you’re an airline pilot. In Australia at least, in two out of three vases, he’s likely to say something along the lines of “Oh yeah, I was thinkin’ of beein’ a pilot when I was a kid, (but [unstated], I became a bank teller / insurance salesman / builder’s labourer instead).” – the heavy inference being, he could have been a pilot if he’d really wanted to, it would have been ‘no sweat at all’, and you’re now doin’ the ‘piss-easy’ job he would now love to be doing, (but with none of the work, time or expense involved in achieving it), “rootin’ all them hosties, only goin’ to work once a week, stayin’ in all them five star hotels, getting’ all them free trips overseas, and makin’ stacks and stacks of dough for doin’ nuthin’ [“Yuh don’t even do anythin’ anymore, do yer? It’s all done by computers, innit.”].”)
The Companies and their propaganda machines (both paid and unpaid) very effectively exploited that streak of envy not far beneath the surface in many Australians. How many times did we see the term ‘fat cats’ applied to the pilots? And how quickly some of us saw attitudes change in so-called friends and neighbours when they “learned all about “the strike’ ” from the drivel turned out on the television.
MTOW offers his opinion, (he even calls it that) that the Australian Media were partisan in their reporting during the Dispute. You may disagree with that, (how, is beyond me, but I accept that you too are entitled to your opinion). Having lived through it, I also believe that the Media slanted their news heavily to the Companies’ point of view. Rupert Murdoch, owner of Ansett, owned a large slice of the Australian print media, while the ABC was then (and still are?) staffed almost entirely by the Bob Hawke Adoration and Glee Club, so that shouldn’t come as any surprise.
If you accept that, even without the ‘tall poppy syndrome’ lurking just below the surface in many Australians, is it any wonder that the Australian public, 99.9% of whom gleaned virtually everything they knew about the Dispute from the Media, were so virulently against the pilots? Besides, they were being inconvenienced and someone had to be to blame – who else but the driver who was refusing to drive as the obviously totally guilty party?
For anyone not aware of the Australian ‘tall poppy syndrome’, ask yourself how many times you’ve been in a bar, party or at some friend’s place for dinner and some bloke you’ve just met learns you’re an airline pilot. In Australia at least, in two out of three vases, he’s likely to say something along the lines of “Oh yeah, I was thinkin’ of beein’ a pilot when I was a kid, (but [unstated], I became a bank teller / insurance salesman / builder’s labourer instead).” – the heavy inference being, he could have been a pilot if he’d really wanted to, it would have been ‘no sweat at all’, and you’re now doin’ the ‘piss-easy’ job he would now love to be doing, (but with none of the work, time or expense involved in achieving it), “rootin’ all them hosties, only goin’ to work once a week, stayin’ in all them five star hotels, getting’ all them free trips overseas, and makin’ stacks and stacks of dough for doin’ nuthin’ [“Yuh don’t even do anythin’ anymore, do yer? It’s all done by computers, innit.”].”)
The Companies and their propaganda machines (both paid and unpaid) very effectively exploited that streak of envy not far beneath the surface in many Australians. How many times did we see the term ‘fat cats’ applied to the pilots? And how quickly some of us saw attitudes change in so-called friends and neighbours when they “learned all about “the strike’ ” from the drivel turned out on the television.
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Let us all get something very straight and up front here.
I am no bleeding mother Theresa as mooted by lefty, nor am I looking for a feel good fix, as nearly all the memories of '89 are distressing as they no doubt for all of you. Feel good is a distant memory.
I take no sides, and am amazed and distressed at the level of hate that is left behind after a very nasty dispute, especially as it was engineered to destroy you all. It worked too damned well.
47 years ago I was born to a teacher mother and a TN LAME father. Santa arrived in VH-THA not a sleigh and I would fight anyone who said otherwise. I have wing walked DC4s and 6s as a seven year old in the Essendon hangars, watched TJA on her first arrival into Essendon with nothing but pride and amazement. I am afraid that I still feel that way every time I see a commercial airliner, followed immediately by a wave of loss.
I am and always will be an Airline brat and will not apologise for that. You can take the boy from the airport, but you can never take the airport from the boy.
You guys are professionals of the finest kind, and I thank you for allowing me an opinion in these places, but feel I have probably pushed too hard at something that I felt you should have back. Each other.
Leftfrontside, amos2 et al - please - take it as the attempts of one who cares and wishes he had the pre '89 industry back and a load sheet in his hand on a rainy night trying to reclaim a near perfect world. You are right. It has left the building.
My head is officially pulled in on this subject and thank you all for your tolerance - particularly Woomera who has been extremely tolerant partly due to the fact that you guys have debated fairly reasonably with the occasional slagfest. Well done all. It is an improvement.
Fly safe and visit Jetset DPO and say hello if you get the chance, you will enjoy the commercial airliner models on display if nothing else, and hopefully a couple of coldies too.
Best regards
EWL
Ron Knight
I am no bleeding mother Theresa as mooted by lefty, nor am I looking for a feel good fix, as nearly all the memories of '89 are distressing as they no doubt for all of you. Feel good is a distant memory.
I take no sides, and am amazed and distressed at the level of hate that is left behind after a very nasty dispute, especially as it was engineered to destroy you all. It worked too damned well.
47 years ago I was born to a teacher mother and a TN LAME father. Santa arrived in VH-THA not a sleigh and I would fight anyone who said otherwise. I have wing walked DC4s and 6s as a seven year old in the Essendon hangars, watched TJA on her first arrival into Essendon with nothing but pride and amazement. I am afraid that I still feel that way every time I see a commercial airliner, followed immediately by a wave of loss.
I am and always will be an Airline brat and will not apologise for that. You can take the boy from the airport, but you can never take the airport from the boy.
You guys are professionals of the finest kind, and I thank you for allowing me an opinion in these places, but feel I have probably pushed too hard at something that I felt you should have back. Each other.
Leftfrontside, amos2 et al - please - take it as the attempts of one who cares and wishes he had the pre '89 industry back and a load sheet in his hand on a rainy night trying to reclaim a near perfect world. You are right. It has left the building.
My head is officially pulled in on this subject and thank you all for your tolerance - particularly Woomera who has been extremely tolerant partly due to the fact that you guys have debated fairly reasonably with the occasional slagfest. Well done all. It is an improvement.
Fly safe and visit Jetset DPO and say hello if you get the chance, you will enjoy the commercial airliner models on display if nothing else, and hopefully a couple of coldies too.
Best regards
EWL
Ron Knight
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Do it Amos - on your way to Ulverrock - make it later in the arvo and I will pull up pegs and head to the RSL or the Formby!!
Looking forward to it.
EWL
Looking forward to it.
EWL
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Andu - since you obviously feel it incumbent upon you to clarify MTOW's and my intent, please try to get it right. My post was only to point out that 'sniffer dog' got the female's name wrong and that his disagreement with her contribution does not, of itself, make her corrupt, morally or otherwise. I understand that she is a TV reporter but, in my experience, they tend to write their own coopy, hence my comment.
You also appear to labour under the impression that those of us who are not pilots must, in some way, harbour suppressed desires as "wannabees", but lacking the ability. If you feel you must denigrate others to try to boost an obviously flagging ego, try to make less of a prat of yourself, we do not all speak with slurred speech and glottal stops, nor do we drag our respective knuckles on the ground. Most of us manage to hold down responsible jobs without the glamour and adulation you so obviously crave, you managed to demean only yourself with your post. In future, please engage brain before opening mouth!
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
You also appear to labour under the impression that those of us who are not pilots must, in some way, harbour suppressed desires as "wannabees", but lacking the ability. If you feel you must denigrate others to try to boost an obviously flagging ego, try to make less of a prat of yourself, we do not all speak with slurred speech and glottal stops, nor do we drag our respective knuckles on the ground. Most of us manage to hold down responsible jobs without the glamour and adulation you so obviously crave, you managed to demean only yourself with your post. In future, please engage brain before opening mouth!
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
What a difference a fortnight makes!!
Away from PC's and other electronic gadgetry here in Hanmer Springs, New Zealand, and I stick my beak in to see that EWL of all people, has STARTED the 3rd run of "Australia, 1989" (or some pseudo title for the events of that year).
And not ONLY that, but it appears that EWL and Amos are best of buddies....Congratulations gents!!
No surprise to see that PPkid is STILL finding it difficult to come up with words of more than 4 letters.
Anyway, the weather's fanbloodytastic here - I'll be dropping in on BNE for a few days, later in the month.
The Hazo's 50th re-union in Orange was a "not to be missed" event. Maybe a few pics to come.
Regards to (almost) all.
K.M.
Away from PC's and other electronic gadgetry here in Hanmer Springs, New Zealand, and I stick my beak in to see that EWL of all people, has STARTED the 3rd run of "Australia, 1989" (or some pseudo title for the events of that year).
And not ONLY that, but it appears that EWL and Amos are best of buddies....Congratulations gents!!
No surprise to see that PPkid is STILL finding it difficult to come up with words of more than 4 letters.
Anyway, the weather's fanbloodytastic here - I'll be dropping in on BNE for a few days, later in the month.
The Hazo's 50th re-union in Orange was a "not to be missed" event. Maybe a few pics to come.
Regards to (almost) all.
K.M.
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You’re outraged indignation is noted, TheNightOwl, but this attitude WAS there in many Australians (more frequently among the ones who use “slurred speech and glottal stops”, which is why I wrote it that way) and this certainly didn’t help win us any friends among the general public in 89. It happened to me on more than one occasion pre 89 – some idiot getting quite rude, even aggressive towards me the moment he learned what I did for a living.
It was in now way aimed at everyone, and I can only assume that anyone who would take umbrage at the comment found it a little too close to the bone. I can’t see how any non-pilot who didn’t harbour such feelings would take offence at it.
It was in now way aimed at everyone, and I can only assume that anyone who would take umbrage at the comment found it a little too close to the bone. I can’t see how any non-pilot who didn’t harbour such feelings would take offence at it.
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Wondered where you'd been KM, sure you didn't go on hols with ppk he's been missing to, welcome back.
The true believers here have been having great fun belting their "balls" against a wall with a stout bat until they surrender
Yes EWL I'll come and have a coldee with you lfs.
The true believers here have been having great fun belting their "balls" against a wall with a stout bat until they surrender
Yes EWL I'll come and have a coldee with you lfs.
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Well, who knows what might happen here?
Perhaps even B the Owl and me, might make up!
And who knows, dare I say it, even TT2. (who has been conspicuous by his absence...perhaps in the sin bin W?)
Anyway, what's that old saying...
"When reasonable men get together.....!"
Perhaps even B the Owl and me, might make up!
And who knows, dare I say it, even TT2. (who has been conspicuous by his absence...perhaps in the sin bin W?)
Anyway, what's that old saying...
"When reasonable men get together.....!"
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leftfrontside
Consider it a date!!
I would be more than pleased to have a beer with you at the first possible opportunity.
I am glad no PPruNers chose to visit my office yesterday.
25mm of rain in 15 mins left 2" of water across the floor.
Sabre system shat itself too, so site was down for 24 hours, mainly because I couldnt get anyone on a help desk who had english as a first language.
Over a thousand litres of water extracted from a 10 metre square office. Not pretty.
The carpet has never been so clean.
Best
EWL
Consider it a date!!
I would be more than pleased to have a beer with you at the first possible opportunity.
I am glad no PPruNers chose to visit my office yesterday.
25mm of rain in 15 mins left 2" of water across the floor.
Sabre system shat itself too, so site was down for 24 hours, mainly because I couldnt get anyone on a help desk who had english as a first language.
Over a thousand litres of water extracted from a 10 metre square office. Not pretty.
The carpet has never been so clean.
Best
EWL
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Rumour has it that Sky Net - a B737 operator based in Miyazaki, Japan - has taken on another 10 pilots, of which 8 are ex-AN (and 2, ex Air New Zealand).
Rishworths (Jack Priest's company in N.Z.) apparently supplied the pilots, who are on USD8k per month and who are currently training in Tokyo in preparation for their JCAB exams and licencing.
Should be an interesting course, with well-known celebreties, Shave and phnompenhkid amongst the 10.....wonder if the ppkid has a "pad on the river" planned for Miyazaki?!!!!
Rishworths (Jack Priest's company in N.Z.) apparently supplied the pilots, who are on USD8k per month and who are currently training in Tokyo in preparation for their JCAB exams and licencing.
Should be an interesting course, with well-known celebreties, Shave and phnompenhkid amongst the 10.....wonder if the ppkid has a "pad on the river" planned for Miyazaki?!!!!
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Then please correct me, Nitpak - where are they, if not in Tokyo? Apparently you are closer to the source than I.
And there's no "big deal", I was merely adding another post that was totally in accordance with the subject matter (Still flying after Ansett). Something that you apparently overlooked.
A little touchy, aren't we?!!
And there's no "big deal", I was merely adding another post that was totally in accordance with the subject matter (Still flying after Ansett). Something that you apparently overlooked.
A little touchy, aren't we?!!
SkynetAsia?
Isn't that the outfit some sage, completely expert in the Japanese aviation scene (And never EVER wrong (Though I think he changed his mind once!)) predicted would last six months?
I seem to remember some other worthy saying the Ex-AN guys were dis-liked by the locals. Strange then that they should employ 9 more. (It's 9 ex AN and 1 Kiwi Kap, perhaps your accountant was allowing for deflation.)
As for a river-side pad, I believe the Oyodo is lovely during summer. If Mekong has been grounded, sounds like PPK made a smart move.
As to where they are Kap...Let's see... Miyazaki based operator..Hmm.. Miyazaki Perhaps??? (Still, one japanese city is much like another. Kinda like Singapore vs Aussie dollars eh?)
Isn't that the outfit some sage, completely expert in the Japanese aviation scene (And never EVER wrong (Though I think he changed his mind once!)) predicted would last six months?
I seem to remember some other worthy saying the Ex-AN guys were dis-liked by the locals. Strange then that they should employ 9 more. (It's 9 ex AN and 1 Kiwi Kap, perhaps your accountant was allowing for deflation.)
As for a river-side pad, I believe the Oyodo is lovely during summer. If Mekong has been grounded, sounds like PPK made a smart move.
As to where they are Kap...Let's see... Miyazaki based operator..Hmm.. Miyazaki Perhaps??? (Still, one japanese city is much like another. Kinda like Singapore vs Aussie dollars eh?)
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
You've got me there Wiz!! Indeed from all reports that the co-pilots were passing on it seemed unlikely that Sky Net were going to last.
Yes, I DID post that, and at the time it appeared plausible that NO airline could survive on operating FIVE services daily between Miyazaki and Haneda.
Now I understand that they will operate Kumamoto-Haneda, and for this require ANOTHER 10 captains.
The F/O's in the company for which I fly, are extremely envious of the Sky Net co-pie's salaries - apparently flight pay is almost TEN TIMES...10 times.....that of our guys' (¥6,000 vs ¥700 per hour).
You're dead right too, Wiz, Miyazaki IS a top spot with some nice beaches near the N/E side of the Oyodo mouth.
As for phnompenhkid - he has proven himself to be an outright LIAR, and it surprises me that YOU would still wish to associate yourself with it!
I'm quite willing to concede, when proven wrong - as has been the case here with Sky Net. And btw, you have one of our ex-F/A's flying with you. Please pass on my best regards, and tell her, "Kiotskete kudasai, wata****achi wa kumiai tsubushi desu.". She's a sweet girl.
Yes, I DID post that, and at the time it appeared plausible that NO airline could survive on operating FIVE services daily between Miyazaki and Haneda.
Now I understand that they will operate Kumamoto-Haneda, and for this require ANOTHER 10 captains.
The F/O's in the company for which I fly, are extremely envious of the Sky Net co-pie's salaries - apparently flight pay is almost TEN TIMES...10 times.....that of our guys' (¥6,000 vs ¥700 per hour).
You're dead right too, Wiz, Miyazaki IS a top spot with some nice beaches near the N/E side of the Oyodo mouth.
As for phnompenhkid - he has proven himself to be an outright LIAR, and it surprises me that YOU would still wish to associate yourself with it!
I'm quite willing to concede, when proven wrong - as has been the case here with Sky Net. And btw, you have one of our ex-F/A's flying with you. Please pass on my best regards, and tell her, "Kiotskete kudasai, wata****achi wa kumiai tsubushi desu.". She's a sweet girl.
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I think PPK was the gentleman seen last weekend being evasive to/with certain locals in a well known bar.Some building supplies not paid for is the rumour.There seem to be gaps in his story.
Kap
You are trying t tell us that the F/O's at JEX make USD6 per hour or about USD500 per month!!
Average part time wage in a noodle store is USD9 per hour.
On that basis the F/A's must be paying the company to work for them. No wonder she left.
As to the 'wata****achi wa kumiai tsubushi' bit...that's a bit rich even by your standards.
You are trying t tell us that the F/O's at JEX make USD6 per hour or about USD500 per month!!
Average part time wage in a noodle store is USD9 per hour.
On that basis the F/A's must be paying the company to work for them. No wonder she left.
As to the 'wata****achi wa kumiai tsubushi' bit...that's a bit rich even by your standards.
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
VR-HFX, "Kap, You are trying t tell us that the F/O's at JEX make USD6 per hour or about USD500 per month!!"
I not TRYING to tell you - I AM telling you!!
RTFQ, VR-HFX...FLIGHT PAY, an allowance over and above their base pay, that is paid for each hour actually flown (about 55 for F/O's).
That isn't too far from the truth with this cheap company!!
...and as for the "As to the 'wata****achi wa kumiai tsubushi' bit...that's a bit rich even by your standards. It IS the truth wrt most of the gaijin in Sky Net - they are labour union [kumiai] breakers [tsubushi] ie. scabs.
The Japanese Pilots' Union fully supported the AFAP in 1989 by way of a letter, promising that they would send neither pilots nor aircraft to support Hawke, Abeles, Murdoch, Kelty & Co.
Not too rich at all
I not TRYING to tell you - I AM telling you!!
RTFQ, VR-HFX...FLIGHT PAY, an allowance over and above their base pay, that is paid for each hour actually flown (about 55 for F/O's).
On that basis the F/A's must be paying the company to work for them.
...and as for the "As to the 'wata****achi wa kumiai tsubushi' bit...that's a bit rich even by your standards. It IS the truth wrt most of the gaijin in Sky Net - they are labour union [kumiai] breakers [tsubushi] ie. scabs.
The Japanese Pilots' Union fully supported the AFAP in 1989 by way of a letter, promising that they would send neither pilots nor aircraft to support Hawke, Abeles, Murdoch, Kelty & Co.
Not too rich at all
Kap
Thank you for the clarification and the bold type.
Me thinks you may be comparing apples with oranges.
As I understand it, the number you quote for Skynet is a total number not a flight pay increment.
I am also intrigued as how the 'sweet girl' would respond to the 'I am a union buster' intro. Probably something like 'so am I and all the other foreign pilots and part-time F/A's employed by JAL and its subsidiaries'
On another subject, I was intrigued at your persistent interest in directors' family shareholdings at CX. If there are any, which I strongly doubt, they would have been bought on market. I think Freehills has clearly pointed out that the options game of executive remuneration does not exist.
As to the options issued to flight crew as part of the 'new deal', most have been burnt in the barbies at DB.
4649
Thank you for the clarification and the bold type.
Me thinks you may be comparing apples with oranges.
As I understand it, the number you quote for Skynet is a total number not a flight pay increment.
I am also intrigued as how the 'sweet girl' would respond to the 'I am a union buster' intro. Probably something like 'so am I and all the other foreign pilots and part-time F/A's employed by JAL and its subsidiaries'
On another subject, I was intrigued at your persistent interest in directors' family shareholdings at CX. If there are any, which I strongly doubt, they would have been bought on market. I think Freehills has clearly pointed out that the options game of executive remuneration does not exist.
As to the options issued to flight crew as part of the 'new deal', most have been burnt in the barbies at DB.
4649