AA Customer Feedback
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AA Customer Feedback
This from the crikey.com website :
"10. WELCOME TO BYO AIRLINES
Our jetsetting Townsville subscriber Peter Caughley gives the thumbs down to the Qantas no-frills operation Australian Airlines:
"Hi Guys,
Just got back from Asia on Australia's newest cut-price international carrier, Australian Airlines - or as I prefer it, Asian Airlines.
Since Singapore Air and Qantas pulled out of the backdoor-to-Singapore route via Cairns, I thought I'd give the new guys a go. Stupid Idea. First off they are not cut price, at least not to Australians. $A1500+ odd to Singapore is hardly an economy flight, albeit high season. But my mate flew same dates Bangkok ex Brisbane on another airline for $A1300.
OK, so cut price it is. You get that impression fairly quickly after being herded into 5 year old Qantas domestic hangers where the lights don't work, the seats are near collapse and the movie is in Chinese with Japanese sub-titles.
Fine, now ask for a drink. Vodka perhaps, or gin maybe? Not to be - the only spirits they carry are Whisky or Bourbon. Why you ask?
'Oh, that's because this is an Asian Airline and Asians don't drink white spirits.' ( Don't know their research on this one, as my Chinese mate in Singo goes through thirty G&Ts in a morning session).
Queried further on this the instant reply is '...well this is a cut-price operation. Operating at 30% less than Qantas. ( A somewhat obvious observation !)'
Now I don't think that $1500+ odd is so cut price that you can't get a real drink - even Domestic Cardboard Box Qantas will give you a Vodka Tonic, for a price.
They did say that I could have a beer. But as every Mexican knows, us Queenslanders can't drink beer that hasn't been quality assured XXXX and would choke on any of those strange Southern brews.
Well, try the wine? Don't. Even Pizza Hut wouldn't dare serve these as their house brands.
Food? Well not quite A la Qantas Cardboard Box, but as the guy across
the aisle said, 'They must get their meals supplied by Madame Wong's Geylang Hawker Market Airline Catering Division.' (But to keep Qantas Frequent Flyers feeling at home they serve your coffee in cardboard pop-corn cups.)
All up, how to rate the whole new enterprise? Well first, to be fair,
The nice purser who they sent to try and placate me on the way up said: 'We have only been in the air for a very short time and we have a few
teething problems. There will be vodka on the return flight.' ( Not true, I
brought my own. BYO Airlines ?)
All in all - they may get some Euro-trash Backpackers in at first but
Even they expect a modicum of service. My prediction? This airline will
not be flying in six months.
Must say though there was a nice touch announcement on landing in
Singapore, 'Thank you for flying ANSETT... I'm sorry, I mean Australian Airlines'. "
The only thing low cost about this outfit are the pilot & f/a wages.
"10. WELCOME TO BYO AIRLINES
Our jetsetting Townsville subscriber Peter Caughley gives the thumbs down to the Qantas no-frills operation Australian Airlines:
"Hi Guys,
Just got back from Asia on Australia's newest cut-price international carrier, Australian Airlines - or as I prefer it, Asian Airlines.
Since Singapore Air and Qantas pulled out of the backdoor-to-Singapore route via Cairns, I thought I'd give the new guys a go. Stupid Idea. First off they are not cut price, at least not to Australians. $A1500+ odd to Singapore is hardly an economy flight, albeit high season. But my mate flew same dates Bangkok ex Brisbane on another airline for $A1300.
OK, so cut price it is. You get that impression fairly quickly after being herded into 5 year old Qantas domestic hangers where the lights don't work, the seats are near collapse and the movie is in Chinese with Japanese sub-titles.
Fine, now ask for a drink. Vodka perhaps, or gin maybe? Not to be - the only spirits they carry are Whisky or Bourbon. Why you ask?
'Oh, that's because this is an Asian Airline and Asians don't drink white spirits.' ( Don't know their research on this one, as my Chinese mate in Singo goes through thirty G&Ts in a morning session).
Queried further on this the instant reply is '...well this is a cut-price operation. Operating at 30% less than Qantas. ( A somewhat obvious observation !)'
Now I don't think that $1500+ odd is so cut price that you can't get a real drink - even Domestic Cardboard Box Qantas will give you a Vodka Tonic, for a price.
They did say that I could have a beer. But as every Mexican knows, us Queenslanders can't drink beer that hasn't been quality assured XXXX and would choke on any of those strange Southern brews.
Well, try the wine? Don't. Even Pizza Hut wouldn't dare serve these as their house brands.
Food? Well not quite A la Qantas Cardboard Box, but as the guy across
the aisle said, 'They must get their meals supplied by Madame Wong's Geylang Hawker Market Airline Catering Division.' (But to keep Qantas Frequent Flyers feeling at home they serve your coffee in cardboard pop-corn cups.)
All up, how to rate the whole new enterprise? Well first, to be fair,
The nice purser who they sent to try and placate me on the way up said: 'We have only been in the air for a very short time and we have a few
teething problems. There will be vodka on the return flight.' ( Not true, I
brought my own. BYO Airlines ?)
All in all - they may get some Euro-trash Backpackers in at first but
Even they expect a modicum of service. My prediction? This airline will
not be flying in six months.
Must say though there was a nice touch announcement on landing in
Singapore, 'Thank you for flying ANSETT... I'm sorry, I mean Australian Airlines'. "
The only thing low cost about this outfit are the pilot & f/a wages.
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"fartsock", heard AA going into Taipei in the wee hours the other day and the TPE controllers were far from impressed, but as the last line suggests YOU ONLY GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR 
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The Flight Attendant wages / conditions aren't actually that bad, IMO.... I have read the EBA and the allowances are quite generous. I have also been given quite good feedback about the pay and conditions by friends (ex AN people) that work there.
People should arm themselves with knowledge before saying such things...
I must agree with the movie/drink comments though. Even the placemat and cutlery laying. From what I have heard it is too much a change all at once, me thinks. Can I please note that the on board product is set by management and has nothing to do with how much or little an employee is paid!
Loose Connection ...
May I ask why one need to be paid s**t loads to be a "professional"? That's what your statement implies. The airline may choose to hire whomever it pleases. I resent the statement as I know personally some of their ex-AN cabin crew.... But they aren't professional are they? Please! I am getting really sick of such comments as "pay peanuts - get monkeys"! Objectively speaking, your comment may (used loosely) have held some truth in the past. Maybe?! I understand that a so called "true professional" is less likely to work for less money. Though with so many people out of aviation jobs at the moment I believe such statements no longer hold any truth. It is too simple a view and in my opinion only seen as true by equally simple people.
fartsock ...
Was that your statement about the only low cost thing being the pilot and fa wages??? What about the lack of amenities that this person also whinged about? I mean I thought that was the point of the article. Some people will find any reason to bag out someone's working environment. Some people have way too much time on their hands and should really grow up.
People should arm themselves with knowledge before saying such things...
I must agree with the movie/drink comments though. Even the placemat and cutlery laying. From what I have heard it is too much a change all at once, me thinks. Can I please note that the on board product is set by management and has nothing to do with how much or little an employee is paid!
Loose Connection ...
May I ask why one need to be paid s**t loads to be a "professional"? That's what your statement implies. The airline may choose to hire whomever it pleases. I resent the statement as I know personally some of their ex-AN cabin crew.... But they aren't professional are they? Please! I am getting really sick of such comments as "pay peanuts - get monkeys"! Objectively speaking, your comment may (used loosely) have held some truth in the past. Maybe?! I understand that a so called "true professional" is less likely to work for less money. Though with so many people out of aviation jobs at the moment I believe such statements no longer hold any truth. It is too simple a view and in my opinion only seen as true by equally simple people.
fartsock ...
Was that your statement about the only low cost thing being the pilot and fa wages??? What about the lack of amenities that this person also whinged about? I mean I thought that was the point of the article. Some people will find any reason to bag out someone's working environment. Some people have way too much time on their hands and should really grow up.
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ditzyboy - I didn't suggest at anytime they were unprofessional as you suggest HOWEVER before venturing into the "real world" you would have thought these lads desparate for jobs would have done their homework after leaving the "closeted" existence that they have been living.
I heard them, their RT performance was abysmal and the TPE controllers were really "pissed" :o
I heard them, their RT performance was abysmal and the TPE controllers were really "pissed" :o
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Ditzy,
No shot at the individuals who have taken the jobs - if you are out of work you do what you can.
My comment was directed at the AA management who are on the same bonus system that QF mainline is on. The MD, CP and Manager Commercial will be millionaires by the end of the three year contractual period. These bonuses are as a direct result of being able to reduce your ex AN friends conditions and nothin else
AA (QF by extension) is charging for a premium product but delivering ****.
A lot of quality flying has been taken from mainline to achieve this, and please don't give me that garbage about being cost competitive - the group will make $1 billion profit this FY.
Finally, the comments I posted where customer feedback - not my own opinion. Your dismissal of them is indicative of the typical QF F/A's attitude - you cannot be told and will not, under any circumstances, accept critisism.
FS
No shot at the individuals who have taken the jobs - if you are out of work you do what you can.
My comment was directed at the AA management who are on the same bonus system that QF mainline is on. The MD, CP and Manager Commercial will be millionaires by the end of the three year contractual period. These bonuses are as a direct result of being able to reduce your ex AN friends conditions and nothin else
AA (QF by extension) is charging for a premium product but delivering ****.
A lot of quality flying has been taken from mainline to achieve this, and please don't give me that garbage about being cost competitive - the group will make $1 billion profit this FY.
Finally, the comments I posted where customer feedback - not my own opinion. Your dismissal of them is indicative of the typical QF F/A's attitude - you cannot be told and will not, under any circumstances, accept critisism.
FS
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Looseconnection-You can't judge an airline or it's crew from one example.Seeing that;
1/Normal schedule is 1740 local TPE.You said they arrived in the early hours.
2/Two crew from CNS.
Chances are they were tired and operating below optimum!Give the guys a break and a chance!
P.S.I don't work for them.
1/Normal schedule is 1740 local TPE.You said they arrived in the early hours.
2/Two crew from CNS.
Chances are they were tired and operating below optimum!Give the guys a break and a chance!
P.S.I don't work for them.
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Loose connection - how do you know the TPE controllers were less than impressed. Did you here the RT conversation(in the wee hours at 1730ish !),did you ask them ? You heard nothing.
Are you sure it wasn't the other way round ?
You seem like a disgruntled person who was upset that AA pilot positions were kept inhouse at QF and not offered to you.
Are you sure it wasn't the other way round ?
You seem like a disgruntled person who was upset that AA pilot positions were kept inhouse at QF and not offered to you.
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fartsock -
Thanks for the reply... I was actually agreeing with the comments about the onboard product! I was simply stating that the FAs have no control over what type of bar is loaded or how they are told to run the service. For instance when Impulse started flying under the Link banner our service guidline said to offer lemon and ice with cold drinks. Our current guidlines clearly state "ice to be on request only. Lemon not availble...." We can only do what we are told to do with the equipment we are given. Anyways I am rambling now... I was agreeing with the points the customer made!!!
I also agree TOTALLY with your comment about charging same fares and delivering less... I know all about that!
Thanks
Thanks for the reply... I was actually agreeing with the comments about the onboard product! I was simply stating that the FAs have no control over what type of bar is loaded or how they are told to run the service. For instance when Impulse started flying under the Link banner our service guidline said to offer lemon and ice with cold drinks. Our current guidlines clearly state "ice to be on request only. Lemon not availble...." We can only do what we are told to do with the equipment we are given. Anyways I am rambling now... I was agreeing with the points the customer made!!!
I also agree TOTALLY with your comment about charging same fares and delivering less... I know all about that!
Thanks
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AA customer service
I'm afraid I agree with fartsock comments relating to customer service and management style at Qf or Ao (it's the same).
The f/a have to do with what they are provided with...
All is not well among cabin crew. Will a southern base ever eventuate ? I very much doubt it.
The f/a have to do with what they are provided with...
All is not well among cabin crew. Will a southern base ever eventuate ? I very much doubt it.
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Fartsock - "The MD, CP and Manager Commercial will be millionaires by the end of the three year contractual period."
Well, the CEO is almost there if you read Qantas's latest annual report. According to that he collected salary of $460k, bonus of $345k and superannuation contributions of $27k to the yr ended June 2002. This totals $832k. Not bad biscuit for a low cost carrier and that was paid before Australian had a feather to fly with. It's hard to know about the others so Lord knows what this year will bring after having put the airline into the air. Goodness knows what the rest of the Second XI from QF are being paid. They must be doing pretty well. I think they are all from Qanas mainline and there have been some pomotions lately. It is logical to assume that they go with more bickies. Not bad for a low cost airline, eh? It is. For some. Screw the troops seems to be the object of the exercise
Well, the CEO is almost there if you read Qantas's latest annual report. According to that he collected salary of $460k, bonus of $345k and superannuation contributions of $27k to the yr ended June 2002. This totals $832k. Not bad biscuit for a low cost carrier and that was paid before Australian had a feather to fly with. It's hard to know about the others so Lord knows what this year will bring after having put the airline into the air. Goodness knows what the rest of the Second XI from QF are being paid. They must be doing pretty well. I think they are all from Qanas mainline and there have been some pomotions lately. It is logical to assume that they go with more bickies. Not bad for a low cost airline, eh? It is. For some. Screw the troops seems to be the object of the exercise
Wait, don't tell me, and no I don't believe in conspiracy theories. But it sounds like ALL airline management go to the same "how to screw staff and fill ya own pockets" school!!
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Hmmmm, interesting!
Seems that there have been a lot of people just itching to put the boot into AO right from the start, or is the real beef more with QF?
Thing is DJ have been in the market offering a low cost operation for sometime now, yet every time I've had cause to book a flight somewhere I can find a comparable 'airfair', oops, I meant airfare with QF mainline.
So why give it to AO with both barrels whilst at the same time conveniently overlooking the exact same situation at DJ?
Seems that there have been a lot of people just itching to put the boot into AO right from the start, or is the real beef more with QF?
Thing is DJ have been in the market offering a low cost operation for sometime now, yet every time I've had cause to book a flight somewhere I can find a comparable 'airfair', oops, I meant airfare with QF mainline.
So why give it to AO with both barrels whilst at the same time conveniently overlooking the exact same situation at DJ?
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Alpha Charlie Bravo I think you have a short memory. QF never offered cheap airfares until the arrival of real competition in the shape of low cost carriers. They took over Impulse and emasculated it but unfortunately for them, and fortunately for the travelling public have been unable to get rid of VB. QF along with the old dinosaur AN, gouged and bled the travelling public to pay for their inflated infrastructure and wasteful practices. 
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"Low cost" is not a corollary of "low fares" or "cut price". Make no mistake about this. DJ is patently low cost, low fares. On the other hand, Australian makes no bones about being 'low cost' but 'full service'. Is it not impossible to offer full service and low fares?
Australian gets around this by being ostensibly 'low cost', but only for some of their people. Just ask the pilots (all ex QF mainline) if they have suffered any erosion of terms and conditions. The answer would be a resounding "NO", so who is being screwed relative to their counterparts in mainline? It can't be all smoke and mirrrors for this economic miracle. The world eventually catches up with anything not the genuine article. If the comments reported in Crikey.com.au at the start of this discussion are true, one has to ask if Australian will be with us for long?
Australian gets around this by being ostensibly 'low cost', but only for some of their people. Just ask the pilots (all ex QF mainline) if they have suffered any erosion of terms and conditions. The answer would be a resounding "NO", so who is being screwed relative to their counterparts in mainline? It can't be all smoke and mirrrors for this economic miracle. The world eventually catches up with anything not the genuine article. If the comments reported in Crikey.com.au at the start of this discussion are true, one has to ask if Australian will be with us for long?
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Reggie,
Australian Airlines, whilst crewed by ex-mainline pilots, is operated under a completely different Award and some pilots (I'm sure) would argue that conditions HAVE been eroded relative to the mainline conditions. Also, wages have been comparitively reduced relative to the wages in QF mainline.
So what has happened with the initial intake of pilots, is that those who were junior in mainline, have accepted positions in Australian that gives them a RELATIVE payrise compared to what they would be making in mainline. They also do not have to endure the lot of a junior rotating pilot on the 767.
Australian Airlines was set up with a target of operating 30% cheaper than QF mainline. This has been achieved by comparitively reduced wages (pilots and new-hire cabin crew) and all-economy service.
In a way, I hope that the Australian experiment does not work, so that current QF management realise what good value their current workforce represents. For all the naysayers, I would say that the current value of the OZ dollar, and the productivity measures that have been given to QF over the last 10 years means that QF mainline aircrew (compared to their peers in equivalent airlines) are probably the most cost-effective workforce in the world.
Australian Airlines, whilst crewed by ex-mainline pilots, is operated under a completely different Award and some pilots (I'm sure) would argue that conditions HAVE been eroded relative to the mainline conditions. Also, wages have been comparitively reduced relative to the wages in QF mainline.
So what has happened with the initial intake of pilots, is that those who were junior in mainline, have accepted positions in Australian that gives them a RELATIVE payrise compared to what they would be making in mainline. They also do not have to endure the lot of a junior rotating pilot on the 767.
Australian Airlines was set up with a target of operating 30% cheaper than QF mainline. This has been achieved by comparitively reduced wages (pilots and new-hire cabin crew) and all-economy service.
In a way, I hope that the Australian experiment does not work, so that current QF management realise what good value their current workforce represents. For all the naysayers, I would say that the current value of the OZ dollar, and the productivity measures that have been given to QF over the last 10 years means that QF mainline aircrew (compared to their peers in equivalent airlines) are probably the most cost-effective workforce in the world.
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Snowball
Having grown up in Perth in the 70's & 80's has left me with a better idea than most of the anti competitive price gouging of the Australian public by the two established domestic incumbents at the time. It says a lot that it was cheaper by far at the time to go to Bali ex Perth than to visit friends and family on the east coast.
However, I digress, QF and AN have NEVER pretended to be anything other than what they are (were), full service airlines with a full service fare structure. DJ, on the other hand, have managed to get away with fooling the Australian public that they are still a low fare operation. Low cost does not mean low fare!
Further to this, the likes of Branson, Godfrey and Corrigan are making huge profits from the sweat of their less well paid staff, who they seem to have successfully distracted with some crap about going after the big boys and making the air fare.
AO - lower cost base, full service y/c
DJ - lowest cost base, no service circus
Having grown up in Perth in the 70's & 80's has left me with a better idea than most of the anti competitive price gouging of the Australian public by the two established domestic incumbents at the time. It says a lot that it was cheaper by far at the time to go to Bali ex Perth than to visit friends and family on the east coast.
However, I digress, QF and AN have NEVER pretended to be anything other than what they are (were), full service airlines with a full service fare structure. DJ, on the other hand, have managed to get away with fooling the Australian public that they are still a low fare operation. Low cost does not mean low fare!
Further to this, the likes of Branson, Godfrey and Corrigan are making huge profits from the sweat of their less well paid staff, who they seem to have successfully distracted with some crap about going after the big boys and making the air fare.
AO - lower cost base, full service y/c
DJ - lowest cost base, no service circus
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Alpha Charlie Bravo, and everyone else - there are many instances when QF is actually cheaper than DJ.
A lot of people sucked in to buy over the net fall for this little trap, and pay too much by booking DJ. The web aint always the right way - check with a travel professional as well, and many outlets can sell you the QF or DJ web based fare at the same price after checking all options.
The same applies to Hotel room - tours - everything.
Also I would like a dollar for every time someone comes into my office because their internet booking is "wrong" and they want to fix it. That and the people who are billed 3 times for the one trip because their server had a brain fart at the wrong time and delivered them 3 confirmed seats for each passenger with no recourse for refund.
I do question bottom line fares, excluding the throw-away midweek off-peak fares being so much cheaper.
Levels when EW was in existence were quite reasonable on TN and AN despite the small threat posed by EW via ports and small volume.
Best all
EWL
A lot of people sucked in to buy over the net fall for this little trap, and pay too much by booking DJ. The web aint always the right way - check with a travel professional as well, and many outlets can sell you the QF or DJ web based fare at the same price after checking all options.
The same applies to Hotel room - tours - everything.
Also I would like a dollar for every time someone comes into my office because their internet booking is "wrong" and they want to fix it. That and the people who are billed 3 times for the one trip because their server had a brain fart at the wrong time and delivered them 3 confirmed seats for each passenger with no recourse for refund.
I do question bottom line fares, excluding the throw-away midweek off-peak fares being so much cheaper.
Levels when EW was in existence were quite reasonable on TN and AN despite the small threat posed by EW via ports and small volume.
Best all
EWL