Silk Air (Singapore) to employ ex-Ansett drivers.
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Silk Air (Singapore) to employ ex-Ansett drivers.
Heard a rumour that Silk Air will be taking a number of ex-Ansett A320 people, most of them having gained their commands on that type very late in 1989 or early 1990 
However the rumour also goes that they have accepted contracts which are CONSIDERABLY less paid than previous ones. (As a matter of "co-incidence", the B737 ex-AN people who went to Sky Net in Japan did the SAME thing). In essence they appear to have accepted the salary conditions paid to the "locals", with one BIG exception - no CPF.
However the rumour also goes that they have accepted contracts which are CONSIDERABLY less paid than previous ones. (As a matter of "co-incidence", the B737 ex-AN people who went to Sky Net in Japan did the SAME thing). In essence they appear to have accepted the salary conditions paid to the "locals", with one BIG exception - no CPF.
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Why the angry emoticon, KaptinM? I can't imagine that any of them did you out of the prospect of employment with SilkAir, or is it just the prospect of ex-AN people being employed which offends you?
Surely it is their decision to either accept or reject the terms offered, why are you so indignant about their terms of remuneration?
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
Surely it is their decision to either accept or reject the terms offered, why are you so indignant about their terms of remuneration?
Kind regards,
TheNightOwl.
However the rumour also goes that they have accepted contracts which are CONSIDERABLY less paid than previous ones.
As did pilots accepting employment with Virgin Blue!!
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Thread Starter
It is the "type" of ex-An people , TNO - I have tried to leave the "s_ _ _" word out, for the time being. Surely you picked up on the DATES mentioned (very late in 1989 or early 1990)?!
The only reason I MIGHT be "indignant about their terms of remuneration" would be because they have AGAIN done overseas that which they did domestically in Oz 13 years ago - LOWERED the conditions of employment for pilots.
The story, in fact, came from a non-Australian who WAS done out of the prospect of a job there by them, however as they (the ex-An people) have accepted what would really have to be considered "breadline/rice bowl" conditions, he reckons they're welcome to it! Hence the
with the topic subject.
I don't tar everyone with the same brush, liquid_gold. You would have noticed for yourself that the reception YOU receive from many of the long term Aussies is far different to that of the more recent AN arrivals.
As for Wiz's preceding comment - the pilots who went to Virgin Blue were the FIRST on the ONLY contract.
These mates of your's have lowered the bar CONSIDERABLY from previous contracts.
, TNO - I have tried to leave the "s_ _ _" word out, for the time being. Surely you picked up on the DATES mentioned (very late in 1989 or early 1990)?!The only reason I MIGHT be "indignant about their terms of remuneration" would be because they have AGAIN done overseas that which they did domestically in Oz 13 years ago - LOWERED the conditions of employment for pilots.
The story, in fact, came from a non-Australian who WAS done out of the prospect of a job there by them, however as they (the ex-An people) have accepted what would really have to be considered "breadline/rice bowl" conditions, he reckons they're welcome to it! Hence the
with the topic subject. I don't tar everyone with the same brush, liquid_gold. You would have noticed for yourself that the reception YOU receive from many of the long term Aussies is far different to that of the more recent AN arrivals.
As for Wiz's preceding comment - the pilots who went to Virgin Blue were the FIRST on the ONLY contract.
These mates of your's have lowered the bar CONSIDERABLY from previous contracts.
Now, where's that brick wall...
Oh, and aren't the guys at Sky net on the "First and only contract"?
But that must be different because...err..because... well it just is!
Oh, and aren't the guys at Sky net on the "First and only contract"?
But that must be different because...err..because... well it just is!
Last edited by Wizofoz; 14th Nov 2002 at 23:24.
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Once again the Singaporeans have demonstrated their complete lack of ability to read a situation. They think that they are being very clever by putting new pilots on National Terms. In fact they are the opposite. Sure, there will be a stampede to get a job, but SilkAir had better install a revolving door, or at least keep the hinges on the current door well and truly oiled. Guys will go there to get current and get payed while they look for a new job. Two F/Os that have been there less that 5 months have interviews with Dragon this month. There's nothing to keep these new guys there. Even the pilots on ex-pat terms aren't safe. What's to stop Silk telling them that they are on National Terms at the end of their (short 2 year) contracts. SQ cocked up ( in my opinion) also when Ansett closed down. They were desperate at that stage for pilots, so what did they do? They took a large number of guys in their late to mid fifties, one was 57, when they could have gotten dozens of guys in their late thirties early forties and had them for twenty years. I think SQ and SilkAir are being very short sighted.
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The guys at Skynet are on a decent contract. They're being paid a lot more then at AN in net terms, the company paying their tax, and accommodation.
It would be a damned good income if earned in Australia and the guys had to pay Australian tax and FBT on their accommodation allowance. It's about 2.5 times net what VB Captains get GROSS. In fact, it's quite a bit more net than a 747 Capt would have earned in the old AN. Declare yourself a non resident, come back for less than 60 days a year, and you're rolling in it.
Now that's not bad for a 737 job - anywhere!
Incidentally, Skynet was a start up company, and there was no previous contract. The first eight former AN guys were the first eight Captains in the company, and I hear from one of those in Miyazaki (is that correct spelling) that the management is more than happy with the guys.
It would be a damned good income if earned in Australia and the guys had to pay Australian tax and FBT on their accommodation allowance. It's about 2.5 times net what VB Captains get GROSS. In fact, it's quite a bit more net than a 747 Capt would have earned in the old AN. Declare yourself a non resident, come back for less than 60 days a year, and you're rolling in it.
Now that's not bad for a 737 job - anywhere!
Incidentally, Skynet was a start up company, and there was no previous contract. The first eight former AN guys were the first eight Captains in the company, and I hear from one of those in Miyazaki (is that correct spelling) that the management is more than happy with the guys.
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Thread Starter
Huntsman, CPF stands for Central Provident Fund, similar to Australia's Superannuation scheme. It used to include the expats as well as the Singaporeans, whereby the employee paid in 15-22% of his salary and the company made an equivalent contribution. Not a bad bonus come end of contract! 
Boeing Belly, try reading this thread from the Terms and Endearment forum - it takes only ONE ******** to start making these sorts of offers that Jobsearch has (and I wouldn't be at ALL surprised if he IS one of the Ansett persons going to Silk Air), and Silk Air siezes the opportunity:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=69170
Unknowingly
my reply seems to pretty much sum up what they are(n't) getting.
However, I'm sure that the self-appointed leader of the AN s_@_s, who told the group, "If you have any problems, come and see ME. I'll fix it!", will play a major role in protecting their welfare.
A new broom always sweeps clean, they say. I heard that the Singaporean heirachy were VERY impressed with that Aussie's takeover role - NOT!!
CitizenXX - you must be due to take up your position anytime soon.
The AN 737 drivers took jobs WAY below MARKET PRICE for Japan.
Rumour has it that Sky Net are already in financial straights - unable to pay their landing fees at Haneda. Time will tell.
Boeing Belly, try reading this thread from the Terms and Endearment forum - it takes only ONE ******** to start making these sorts of offers that Jobsearch has (and I wouldn't be at ALL surprised if he IS one of the Ansett persons going to Silk Air), and Silk Air siezes the opportunity:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthr...threadid=69170
Unknowingly
my reply seems to pretty much sum up what they are(n't) getting.However, I'm sure that the self-appointed leader of the AN s_@_s, who told the group, "If you have any problems, come and see ME. I'll fix it!", will play a major role in protecting their welfare.
A new broom always sweeps clean, they say. I heard that the Singaporean heirachy were VERY impressed with that Aussie's takeover role - NOT!!
CitizenXX - you must be due to take up your position anytime soon.
The AN 737 drivers took jobs WAY below MARKET PRICE for Japan.
Rumour has it that Sky Net are already in financial straights - unable to pay their landing fees at Haneda. Time will tell.
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Once again the kaptin lets un truths get in the way of a good story.
The CPF will be paid to pilots employed on local conditions, after a period of (i think ) 6 months.
The conditions at MI are superior to VB both for locals and expats.
The CPF will be paid to pilots employed on local conditions, after a period of (i think ) 6 months.
The conditions at MI are superior to VB both for locals and expats.
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I think the guys will feel the pinch when you compare the cost of living in Singapore to Brissie. I believe it's a lot higher in Singapore, especially if you have kids. The other problem will be lower morale of the guys doing the same job for significantly lower money. At first they'll just be relieved to have a job, but I bet that wears off soon and creates bitterness.
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Kaptain M
I would be interested to know what you get paid compared to your Japanese counterparts ?
Did you only except the job on the same conditions and pay as the locals? Please dont BS that you get more...
I hear you guys are actually the S@@@S of Japan.
I also hear that one of your mates did his best to stop any S---s getting into Skymark.Mikes brother
Now lets take this one step further. If they cannot get a job with good conditions in a descent airline they will be forced to accept lower pay, therefore weaking everyones position including your own and future employees, S@@@s and non-S@@@s alike.
But your self interest has be served as usual.
I look forward to your reply.
Are you the self appointed anti s@@b leader ?
Looking at the photo of you I just received which is doing the rounds by email my money is on the other guy.
I would be interested to know what you get paid compared to your Japanese counterparts ?
Did you only except the job on the same conditions and pay as the locals? Please dont BS that you get more...
I hear you guys are actually the S@@@S of Japan.
I also hear that one of your mates did his best to stop any S---s getting into Skymark.Mikes brother
Now lets take this one step further. If they cannot get a job with good conditions in a descent airline they will be forced to accept lower pay, therefore weaking everyones position including your own and future employees, S@@@s and non-S@@@s alike.
But your self interest has be served as usual.
I look forward to your reply.
Are you the self appointed anti s@@b leader ?
Looking at the photo of you I just received which is doing the rounds by email my money is on the other guy.
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Thread Starter
I would be interested to know what you get paid compared to your Japanese counterparts ? More.
Did you only except the job on the same conditions and pay as the locals? Better Please dont BS that you get more... it doesn't concern me whether you believe me or not
I hear you guys are actually the S@@@S of Japan. Really? You would think that they would have let US know that while they were training us - or at LEAST at some time over the past 3 1/2 years....wouldn't you?! They DO, however, know who the S@@@S of Australia are!!".
I also hear that one of your mates did his best to stop any S---s getting into Skymark.Mikes brother Huh? To the best of my knowledge, everyone who was evaluated for the vacancies passed or failed on his own merits - or otherwise. The decision was made by the Japanese.
Now lets take this one step further. If they cannot get a job with good conditions in a descent airline they will be forced to accept lower pay, therefore weaking everyones position including your own and future employees, S@@@s and non-S@@@s alike. So you're expecting ME to help the S@@@S get a job. Yeah RIGHT ...not bl00dy likely. 
[BTW check your spelling, please.] Even if you are not a native English speaker.
But your self interest has be served as usual.What self interset is that?
I look forward to your reply.
Are you the self appointed anti s@@b leader ?Are you theirs'?
Looking at the photo of you I just received which is doing the rounds by email my money is on the other guy.I'm flattered - and you're probably right!
Btw, CitizenXX, has anyone told the Japanese Captains that "The first eight former AN guys were the first eight Captains in the company" yet?
You know, the Chief Pilot, and the ones who line-trained the AN "heroes"?
Ooops, forgot about THEM - minor details eh!!
I'll bet the Japanese will just LOVE to hear that the Australians taught THEM how to fly in Japan!!
Did you only except the job on the same conditions and pay as the locals? Better Please dont BS that you get more... it doesn't concern me whether you believe me or not
I hear you guys are actually the S@@@S of Japan. Really? You would think that they would have let US know that while they were training us - or at LEAST at some time over the past 3 1/2 years....wouldn't you?! They DO, however, know who the S@@@S of Australia are!!".
I also hear that one of your mates did his best to stop any S---s getting into Skymark.Mikes brother Huh?
To the best of my knowledge, everyone who was evaluated for the vacancies passed or failed on his own merits - or otherwise. The decision was made by the Japanese.Now lets take this one step further. If they cannot get a job with good conditions in a descent airline they will be forced to accept lower pay, therefore weaking everyones position including your own and future employees, S@@@s and non-S@@@s alike. So you're expecting ME to help the S@@@S get a job. Yeah RIGHT
...not bl00dy likely. [BTW check your spelling, please.] Even if you are not a native English speaker.But your self interest has be served as usual.What self interset is that?
I look forward to your reply.
Are you the self appointed anti s@@b leader ?Are you theirs'?
Looking at the photo of you I just received which is doing the rounds by email my money is on the other guy.I'm flattered - and you're probably right!
Btw, CitizenXX, has anyone told the Japanese Captains that "The first eight former AN guys were the first eight Captains in the company" yet?
You know, the Chief Pilot, and the ones who line-trained the AN "heroes"?
Ooops, forgot about THEM - minor details eh!!
I'll bet the Japanese will just LOVE to hear that the Australians taught THEM how to fly in Japan!!
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Great news, for the guys that showed common sense in '89, unlike the idiots that wanted to destroy everything because they could not win, then make others responsible and accountable that had nothing to do with it, and then after the great intellectual industrial ploy that made every sensible person shake their heads in disbelief...they resigned!!!, its anybodys opportunity now for the taking, there is never reasoning with ignorant and stupid people, its time for the bitter and twisted s**b list carriers join the 21st century.
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BoeingBelly
Possible reasons why Silk Air went for the older guys:
1. No long term prospects for younger guys.
2. Silk Air may not have a long term future?
3. They want the additional level of experience to balance the RHS level.
4. Etc. etc.
1. No long term prospects for younger guys.
2. Silk Air may not have a long term future?
3. They want the additional level of experience to balance the RHS level.
4. Etc. etc.
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I was actually talking about the older guys going to SIA. They'll only get a few years out of some of the ones they've taken. I remember 18 months ago SQ couldn't get anybody to accept a 777 Command based in Brisbane. They ended up getting Pakistani pilots to go there. Assuming the industry recovers one day, SQ might once again have trouble attracting pilots. If they had employed 40 year olds and signed them on long term contracts it may have eased this problem. Having said that, good luck to all those who got jobs with SQ and SilkAir. I've flown with a lot of them and most are good blokes.
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Thread Starter
" I remember 18 months ago SQ couldn't get anybody to accept a 777 Command based in Brisbane." Because Ansett hadn't collapsed THEN, and the conditions being offered were not sufficient to entice pilots who were prepared to hold out for what they KNEW they were WORTH!
The pilots that EVENTUALLY ended up taking that - and the current Silk Air contracts - are the SAME ones that have shown throughout their "career" that they NEED to grab the FIRST job offer....before other more qualified and proficient apply.
I believe the term is "INSECURITY" - a doubting of one's OWN abilities!
"Self ConfessedAbyssmal aBility!
Remember, SQ stands for SINGAPORE Airlines, and perhaps they needed the older recruits to plug a gap from their earlier lack of recruiting.
Additionally, older, short-term pilots work out a helluva lot cheaper! Lah.
The pilots that EVENTUALLY ended up taking that - and the current Silk Air contracts - are the SAME ones that have shown throughout their "career" that they NEED to grab the FIRST job offer....before other more qualified and proficient apply.
I believe the term is "INSECURITY" - a doubting of one's OWN abilities!
"Self ConfessedAbyssmal aBility!
Remember, SQ stands for SINGAPORE Airlines, and perhaps they needed the older recruits to plug a gap from their earlier lack of recruiting.
Additionally, older, short-term pilots work out a helluva lot cheaper! Lah.
Last edited by Kaptin M; 15th Nov 2002 at 11:41.
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spelling nazis
Kaptin M....let he who is without sin and all that.
Spellcheck "abissmal" for me would you? Even if you don't speak English as a first language
As for the thread topic...why worry about what someone else in another country gets unless you want the job too?
Market forces and all that, unless you hadn't noticed, there is a worldwide glut of pilots, the companies can afford to offer slightly less and still be swamped with applicants.
Or is this thread just another 89 thread in disguise (albeit thinly veiled)?
Spellcheck "abissmal" for me would you? Even if you don't speak English as a first language
As for the thread topic...why worry about what someone else in another country gets unless you want the job too?
Market forces and all that, unless you hadn't noticed, there is a worldwide glut of pilots, the companies can afford to offer slightly less and still be swamped with applicants.
Or is this thread just another 89 thread in disguise (albeit thinly veiled)?