Vb Per
Hey 24,
She was there for a while: made a pleasant interlude, during the 15 minute trek we have to make just to get to work, to say hello to a nice young fresh-faced Virgin!
But alas, she's been replaced by a (tacky) sign!
Eyeballs out!
She was there for a while: made a pleasant interlude, during the 15 minute trek we have to make just to get to work, to say hello to a nice young fresh-faced Virgin!
But alas, she's been replaced by a (tacky) sign!
Eyeballs out!
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Just a simple question on DG acceptance... when travelling as a pax when have you ever had anyone ask you what is in your checked luggage in regard to DG? I have flown with QF and AN (not VB) but no one ever asked me if I was carrying any DG or inspected my luggage. Even if the VB check in personel DID have DG awareness and non DG acceptance training I doubt they would have even asked anyone to open their bags for inspection.
No other bloody airline does!
No other bloody airline does!
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Aero(S)care
Hi All,
Just in response to the last writers comment re: Check-in staff asking PAX about their Checked Baggage and whether it contains anything hazardous, at our Airline it is policy BEFORE we commence any work near PAX we MUST pass a DG Awareness Course, and it is SOP to ask EVERY PAX Security Q's regarding their Checked Baggage - i.e. Did you pack these items yourself? Does it contain anything of a Dangerous Nature etc etc...
It is just a plain breach of the CAR's when staff are not trained in DG Awareness, regardless of where they are employed i.e. Rampies or Check-in.
Once again it just shows lack of Management from the word go. As previously stated the Airport Manager has less than 12 months experience in the Industry, the Check-in Supervisors are all ex AN Resso staff with no Airport Op's Experience (No offence to ex AN RES staff) and the Senior Ramp Supervisor used to be a Kitchenhand in the AN Golden Wing(ers) lounge!!! I rest my case.....
Further to this, I was well informed that the part owner of the business who is also the General Manager based in SYD, has also had no prior industry experience and used to be a Chemist or the like with the RAAF.
As a few previous posts on this subject have mentioned, quite possibly at other Aero(s)care ports where they carry out Ground Handling for numerous carriers they may well be experienced which is good to know. However I really think for the benefit of the travelling public and VB's image the PER Op really needs to be bought into the spotlight.
Cheers All!
***** FLY FAST, BE SEEN *****
Hi All,
Just surfing the web before I head off to work this afternoon and found this interesting statement on the Aero(s)care Website:
Quote:
Departure dependability is the hallmark of Aero-Care's ramp handling. Our managers and employees at check-in and on the ramp go through one of the most rigorous training programs in the industry. From the moment your aircraft is marshalled to the gate until its push back departure, our teams are well equipped to handle both the typical and the extraordinary challenges that come with every flight operation
Unquote.
Hehe, makes me laugh, maybe they could ad DG Training to their "Rigorous Training Program"!!!!
Cheers All!!
***** FLY FAST, BE SEEN *****
Just in response to the last writers comment re: Check-in staff asking PAX about their Checked Baggage and whether it contains anything hazardous, at our Airline it is policy BEFORE we commence any work near PAX we MUST pass a DG Awareness Course, and it is SOP to ask EVERY PAX Security Q's regarding their Checked Baggage - i.e. Did you pack these items yourself? Does it contain anything of a Dangerous Nature etc etc...
It is just a plain breach of the CAR's when staff are not trained in DG Awareness, regardless of where they are employed i.e. Rampies or Check-in.
Once again it just shows lack of Management from the word go. As previously stated the Airport Manager has less than 12 months experience in the Industry, the Check-in Supervisors are all ex AN Resso staff with no Airport Op's Experience (No offence to ex AN RES staff) and the Senior Ramp Supervisor used to be a Kitchenhand in the AN Golden Wing(ers) lounge!!! I rest my case.....
Further to this, I was well informed that the part owner of the business who is also the General Manager based in SYD, has also had no prior industry experience and used to be a Chemist or the like with the RAAF.
As a few previous posts on this subject have mentioned, quite possibly at other Aero(s)care ports where they carry out Ground Handling for numerous carriers they may well be experienced which is good to know. However I really think for the benefit of the travelling public and VB's image the PER Op really needs to be bought into the spotlight.
Cheers All!
***** FLY FAST, BE SEEN *****
Hi All,
Just surfing the web before I head off to work this afternoon and found this interesting statement on the Aero(s)care Website:
Quote:
Departure dependability is the hallmark of Aero-Care's ramp handling. Our managers and employees at check-in and on the ramp go through one of the most rigorous training programs in the industry. From the moment your aircraft is marshalled to the gate until its push back departure, our teams are well equipped to handle both the typical and the extraordinary challenges that come with every flight operation
Unquote.
Hehe, makes me laugh, maybe they could ad DG Training to their "Rigorous Training Program"!!!!
Cheers All!!
***** FLY FAST, BE SEEN *****
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Can we get some clarification. Was it DG Acceptance or DG Awareness. There is a huge difference.
I have been through PER many times on VB and every time are asked the DG questions.
The comment on how long people have been employed in this industry is a bit picky, in my opinion. We all had to start some time. How long do you have to be in the industry before you are experienced ?.
It sounds like to me, some one missed out on a job in PER.
I have been through PER many times on VB and every time are asked the DG questions.
The comment on how long people have been employed in this industry is a bit picky, in my opinion. We all had to start some time. How long do you have to be in the industry before you are experienced ?.
It sounds like to me, some one missed out on a job in PER.
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HGW,
I too know of the problems of aerocare in PER as I know people who currently work and have worked there previously.
Just because someone is trying to bring to your attention what is going on doesn't mean that they are bitter because they missed out on a job themselves. I think it is good to know that safety is being compromised. I mean what if a pax tells the check-in agent they have xxxx in their bag. The check in agent has no idea of the possible danger because they haven't been trained and allows item xxxx onboard. During the flight item xxxx causes an explosion - then what???
I think you will find that in PER very few of the staff members have previous airline operations experience. I agree with you that everyone has to start somewhere, however, perhaps it would be wise to have someone in charge who has a relatively strong aviation background.
By the way, I do not work for Vb and have no desire to.
Cheers,
Shaggs
I too know of the problems of aerocare in PER as I know people who currently work and have worked there previously.
Just because someone is trying to bring to your attention what is going on doesn't mean that they are bitter because they missed out on a job themselves. I think it is good to know that safety is being compromised. I mean what if a pax tells the check-in agent they have xxxx in their bag. The check in agent has no idea of the possible danger because they haven't been trained and allows item xxxx onboard. During the flight item xxxx causes an explosion - then what???
I think you will find that in PER very few of the staff members have previous airline operations experience. I agree with you that everyone has to start somewhere, however, perhaps it would be wise to have someone in charge who has a relatively strong aviation background.
By the way, I do not work for Vb and have no desire to.
Cheers,
Shaggs
the key issue here is that the staff were not trained in dg AWARENESS, not dg ACCEPTANCE, which are totally different things altogether, all checkin and ramp staff should be trained in dg awareness, not acceptance.
as far as aerocare's ability to do the job they do run a pretty efficient operation, and they are able to regularly achieve turnarounds in the vicinity of 30 minutes, something their higher paid friends at qf would struggle to do anytime, and far better than 12 ansett jocks on $80,000pa could ever manage.
pervaspy, you should think twice before mentioning people by name on this site, i don't think people deserve to have their name dragged through the mud by you...
understand vb is planning to take over aerocare's provision of ground handling at perth as it is getting a bit big for aerocare to manage...
as far as aerocare's ability to do the job they do run a pretty efficient operation, and they are able to regularly achieve turnarounds in the vicinity of 30 minutes, something their higher paid friends at qf would struggle to do anytime, and far better than 12 ansett jocks on $80,000pa could ever manage.
pervaspy, you should think twice before mentioning people by name on this site, i don't think people deserve to have their name dragged through the mud by you...
understand vb is planning to take over aerocare's provision of ground handling at perth as it is getting a bit big for aerocare to manage...
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AERO(S)CARE
Hi All,
Just in response to T3's comments and as to whether it was DG ACCEPTANCE or AWARENESS, I did make a mistake and it should have read AWARENESS - Apologies to the people who got uptight about technicalities.... However one should be reminded that certain articles do need a QUALIFIED ACCEPTANCE staff member to check them prior to being sent. I have heard that there is only one Check-in supervisor trained for this task, meaning certain articles must slip thru the net from time to time.
As far as missing out on a position in PER, I have no desire at all to work for VB or AERO(S)CARE and am quite happy employed with a real airline - and have been for sometime. And NO its not the RAT!!
I do agree with the response to the other post - we all have to start somewhere - however I do think that people with some Industry experience should be placed in a position of Management. But as previously stated, if you lead by example even the GM has no Industry experience, unless Chemistry is a major part of Aviation these days :-)
With regards to HGW comment - I have always been asked those DG Q's - I guess you must have struck one of the few staff that are trained, remembering the fact I never said that none of the staff were trained in AWARENESS.
My post is simply trying to point out the many problems the VB OP in PER is currently having - being handled by AERO(S)CARE. I believe the travelling public and VB staff, should any of them read this, be made aware that their safety could be being put at risk.
Cheers All....
Just in response to T3's comments and as to whether it was DG ACCEPTANCE or AWARENESS, I did make a mistake and it should have read AWARENESS - Apologies to the people who got uptight about technicalities.... However one should be reminded that certain articles do need a QUALIFIED ACCEPTANCE staff member to check them prior to being sent. I have heard that there is only one Check-in supervisor trained for this task, meaning certain articles must slip thru the net from time to time.
As far as missing out on a position in PER, I have no desire at all to work for VB or AERO(S)CARE and am quite happy employed with a real airline - and have been for sometime. And NO its not the RAT!!
I do agree with the response to the other post - we all have to start somewhere - however I do think that people with some Industry experience should be placed in a position of Management. But as previously stated, if you lead by example even the GM has no Industry experience, unless Chemistry is a major part of Aviation these days :-)
With regards to HGW comment - I have always been asked those DG Q's - I guess you must have struck one of the few staff that are trained, remembering the fact I never said that none of the staff were trained in AWARENESS.
My post is simply trying to point out the many problems the VB OP in PER is currently having - being handled by AERO(S)CARE. I believe the travelling public and VB staff, should any of them read this, be made aware that their safety could be being put at risk.
Cheers All....
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Some times you guys amaze me DG check on luggage for domestic travel get real !!!
Australia does not scan luggage so DG identification is as good as the pax answers if he is asked, I never have been.
QF is one of the best airlines in the world they contract out their security at Per who do sometimes slip which is why we were suprised to be abused when on a transhipment we confiscated some of a previously sceened pax hand luggage.
She raised hell stating we were being unreasonable and if it was good enough to pass Per why not our airports non QF flight. We could only politely explain that it was not possible for her to board with her beautiful 5 piece set of carving knives !!!!
Hey we confiscate nail files and then get meals with steel knives and forks in QF J class. Boy lucky terrorists can only fly up the back.
My point is take a good long look at your ops before dumping on others and stating they are unsafe is going too far unless you are adopting world best practise which Australian aviation airline security is certainly not.
Australia does not scan luggage so DG identification is as good as the pax answers if he is asked, I never have been.
QF is one of the best airlines in the world they contract out their security at Per who do sometimes slip which is why we were suprised to be abused when on a transhipment we confiscated some of a previously sceened pax hand luggage.
She raised hell stating we were being unreasonable and if it was good enough to pass Per why not our airports non QF flight. We could only politely explain that it was not possible for her to board with her beautiful 5 piece set of carving knives !!!!
Hey we confiscate nail files and then get meals with steel knives and forks in QF J class. Boy lucky terrorists can only fly up the back.
My point is take a good long look at your ops before dumping on others and stating they are unsafe is going too far unless you are adopting world best practise which Australian aviation airline security is certainly not.
well said walley...couldn't agree with you more.
in response to pervaspy's comments, it is a condition of employment with aerocare that a dg awareness course is completed before commencing work, vb and aerocare wouldn't have it any other way. there may have been some problem with aerocare perth's training records but vb are installing their own rep in perth to oversee all the training side of things as the operation is getting big there now.
a monkey can complete a dg awareness course, it doesn't mean just because everyone has this piece of paper stating "well done you are aware of dangerous goods" that you are a you beaut super-safe company that will never let anything dangerous on an aeroplane, lets be realistic here, walley is absolutely right, we are relying on the customer on the other side of the desk to answer no to this ravel of questions they get bombarded with in about 5 secs as they are checking in.
i am sure we would all be horrified if we knew what DOES go on the aircraft as carry-on and checked in luggage.
well pervaspy you have "heard this" and "heard that" maybe you should research some facts before slagging off others on this site, well done, good on you, working for this you beaut company that has passenger's safety at the forefront of their concerns, you are a hero mate!!!! (not qf so must be skippers or skywest????)
as for mentioning people by name on this site, that isn't the way it's done, its supposed to be anonymous and people have the right not to be named...
in response to pervaspy's comments, it is a condition of employment with aerocare that a dg awareness course is completed before commencing work, vb and aerocare wouldn't have it any other way. there may have been some problem with aerocare perth's training records but vb are installing their own rep in perth to oversee all the training side of things as the operation is getting big there now.
a monkey can complete a dg awareness course, it doesn't mean just because everyone has this piece of paper stating "well done you are aware of dangerous goods" that you are a you beaut super-safe company that will never let anything dangerous on an aeroplane, lets be realistic here, walley is absolutely right, we are relying on the customer on the other side of the desk to answer no to this ravel of questions they get bombarded with in about 5 secs as they are checking in.
i am sure we would all be horrified if we knew what DOES go on the aircraft as carry-on and checked in luggage.
well pervaspy you have "heard this" and "heard that" maybe you should research some facts before slagging off others on this site, well done, good on you, working for this you beaut company that has passenger's safety at the forefront of their concerns, you are a hero mate!!!! (not qf so must be skippers or skywest????)
as for mentioning people by name on this site, that isn't the way it's done, its supposed to be anonymous and people have the right not to be named...
Dont forget, aerocare handelled Impulse for several years, and with the 717 operation, they were the slickest and most efficient and professional turnaround crew in the country. Made QF and AN ramp staff look like overpaid bludgers.
I must agree with EWL's assertions about Virgin. Having observed the Virgin ramp operations(at very close range over the last 2 years) there are some major concerns about their attitudes and professionalism. This applies to the Sydney ramp.
Airside driving, most of the guys treat the ramp as their pwn personal race track, constant squealies, handbrake turns and the like.
Ramp organisation is a disgrace, the whole area is untidy, bag carts left everywhere, equipment stored hap hazardly. Litter is everywhere, none of the rampies will remove litter that they walk over. The bays are littered with bag feet that have punctured aircraft tyres in the past.
Plastic garbags (empty) blowing around the ramp in the wind, right past the workers who dont even notice them, much less pick them up. They apparently dont care about FOD.
There is little or no awareness about damage prevention, stairs left unchocked. They cant recognise the need to protect the wingtips of their own aircraft with witches hats, when there are other operations on the ramp(ie the DHL moving fright accross the tarmac). Even when asked to do so........., they can't be bothered putting out witches hats to protect the wingtip of the aircraft parked on Bay 94.
Ball games played on the tarmac amongst parked aircraft inbetween turnarounds. Have seen footbal and soccerballs bounce of the aircraft windscreens. Doesnt sound and look professional when the baggage makeup area which is higly visable to the genaral public, looks and sounds more like a big party.
While the pit crews are efficient(not as good as Aerocare were), tand fuccused, they are not proactive and little concept of the bigger picture thats happenng around them. I believe the management is rather week in skills, and the shift supervisiors do not have their troops under tight enough control.
Tooo much fun and not enough professionalism.
I must agree with EWL's assertions about Virgin. Having observed the Virgin ramp operations(at very close range over the last 2 years) there are some major concerns about their attitudes and professionalism. This applies to the Sydney ramp.
Airside driving, most of the guys treat the ramp as their pwn personal race track, constant squealies, handbrake turns and the like.
Ramp organisation is a disgrace, the whole area is untidy, bag carts left everywhere, equipment stored hap hazardly. Litter is everywhere, none of the rampies will remove litter that they walk over. The bays are littered with bag feet that have punctured aircraft tyres in the past.
Plastic garbags (empty) blowing around the ramp in the wind, right past the workers who dont even notice them, much less pick them up. They apparently dont care about FOD.
There is little or no awareness about damage prevention, stairs left unchocked. They cant recognise the need to protect the wingtips of their own aircraft with witches hats, when there are other operations on the ramp(ie the DHL moving fright accross the tarmac). Even when asked to do so........., they can't be bothered putting out witches hats to protect the wingtip of the aircraft parked on Bay 94.
Ball games played on the tarmac amongst parked aircraft inbetween turnarounds. Have seen footbal and soccerballs bounce of the aircraft windscreens. Doesnt sound and look professional when the baggage makeup area which is higly visable to the genaral public, looks and sounds more like a big party.
While the pit crews are efficient(not as good as Aerocare were), tand fuccused, they are not proactive and little concept of the bigger picture thats happenng around them. I believe the management is rather week in skills, and the shift supervisiors do not have their troops under tight enough control.
Tooo much fun and not enough professionalism.
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"Squealies", "hand brake turns", "football and soccer balls bouncing off aircraft windscreens". Guptar you are full of sh!t. FOD control is occasionally a problem on the SYD ramp and the bag legs are the worst offender. However the problem has been recognised. The rest of your post is crap.
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Just can't put my finger on what it is about Virgin that people don't like, but I was at a Cocktail Party in Sydney last week - mostly professional people - doctors, lawyers etc (talking about holidays and travel) and not one of them had anything good to say about Virgin.
I didn't raise the topic or contribute to the conversation - just listened with interest.
I didn't raise the topic or contribute to the conversation - just listened with interest.
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luna landing
It's much more to do with the demographic present at the Cocktail Party than VB.
They (the doctors/lawyers) have the same tribal totems and rituals as say pilots have with my watch is bigger than yours, and there is the same, almost certainly higher, proportion of self flagellators.
Except in tbeir case they try the same bulls hit on each other with the "last weekend at our (insert here, tuscan villa, vineyard, little cottage at Noosa, pied a terre in Paris or whatever) we had (insert here whatever you think will cause the most envy) etc, etc, blah, blah, blah......" routine.
In any event VB probably doesn/t go there.
It's much more to do with the demographic present at the Cocktail Party than VB.
They (the doctors/lawyers) have the same tribal totems and rituals as say pilots have with my watch is bigger than yours, and there is the same, almost certainly higher, proportion of self flagellators.
Except in tbeir case they try the same bulls hit on each other with the "last weekend at our (insert here, tuscan villa, vineyard, little cottage at Noosa, pied a terre in Paris or whatever) we had (insert here whatever you think will cause the most envy) etc, etc, blah, blah, blah......" routine.
In any event VB probably doesn/t go there.
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Guptar
You sound like you work there to know so much. If so, what have you done about the things that go on. Did you report them to anyone like SACL for instance. If you didn't and it's true what you say then that is the same as if you were doing it too.
I look forward to your response.
You sound like you work there to know so much. If so, what have you done about the things that go on. Did you report them to anyone like SACL for instance. If you didn't and it's true what you say then that is the same as if you were doing it too.
I look forward to your response.
HGW,
The driving has been reported numerous times in the past, both verbally and in writing to your management. But thats water under the bridge.
Beware, SACL are on the warpath about driving, especially in the baggage area at the interenational and domestic terminals. That includes T2.
It will be crowded under T2, drive slowly or someone will get hurt.
Yes, I am very close to the action.
The driving has been reported numerous times in the past, both verbally and in writing to your management. But thats water under the bridge.
Beware, SACL are on the warpath about driving, especially in the baggage area at the interenational and domestic terminals. That includes T2.
It will be crowded under T2, drive slowly or someone will get hurt.
Yes, I am very close to the action.
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AERO(S)CARE
Hi All,
T3 - I really don't think I need to justify myself to you, however for the benefit of other readers I will. All of what I have stated on my previous posts is true. I have done my research and my homework! Why do you think CASA is doing a major audit on the whole AERO(S)CARE Operation at the moment. Quite simply, the training in PER for the staff (8) was not completed and they were allowed to carry on working without any DG Certification.
As for the other comments from other writers, I have only ever discussed the PER Op and have stated this on many occasions. I have no doubt that at other ports they may (Aerocare) be quite professional, however this is something that is lacking very badly in PER. Personally I would be very worried if I was VB, having such an organisation represent me at PER. With the Airport Manager when are yoiu going to learn, no names ...period...W lacking major knowledge of Aviation and Airport Ops, its no wonder its run like such a clown show.
Anyway, enough said. Hope this clears up any major problems T3.
BTW, You are very wrong on both counts with the employment!!!
Merry Christmas all!!
***** FLY FAST, BE SEEN *****
T3 - I really don't think I need to justify myself to you, however for the benefit of other readers I will. All of what I have stated on my previous posts is true. I have done my research and my homework! Why do you think CASA is doing a major audit on the whole AERO(S)CARE Operation at the moment. Quite simply, the training in PER for the staff (8) was not completed and they were allowed to carry on working without any DG Certification.
As for the other comments from other writers, I have only ever discussed the PER Op and have stated this on many occasions. I have no doubt that at other ports they may (Aerocare) be quite professional, however this is something that is lacking very badly in PER. Personally I would be very worried if I was VB, having such an organisation represent me at PER. With the Airport Manager when are yoiu going to learn, no names ...period...W lacking major knowledge of Aviation and Airport Ops, its no wonder its run like such a clown show.
Anyway, enough said. Hope this clears up any major problems T3.
BTW, You are very wrong on both counts with the employment!!!
Merry Christmas all!!
***** FLY FAST, BE SEEN *****
Last edited by Woomera; 19th Dec 2002 at 09:17.
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peravspy
Naming someone twice in the same post in spite of warnings to the contrary makes it look like we're reading as a personal vendetta unfolds.
Your credibility is on the line now and personally I'd be running for cover, I'd sure as hell sue.
At the end of it all A/C go in, A/C come out. Those with more forgiving personalities would perhaps see the "alledged" DG episode as an oversight. Definately a cock-up but still probably just an admin oversight.
I won't go in to how the DGs awareness by PC or mailed out handbook is a total farce as that is a separate issue.
Naming someone twice in the same post in spite of warnings to the contrary makes it look like we're reading as a personal vendetta unfolds.
Your credibility is on the line now and personally I'd be running for cover, I'd sure as hell sue.
At the end of it all A/C go in, A/C come out. Those with more forgiving personalities would perhaps see the "alledged" DG episode as an oversight. Definately a cock-up but still probably just an admin oversight.
I won't go in to how the DGs awareness by PC or mailed out handbook is a total farce as that is a separate issue.
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'you won't see qf turn around a 737 in 25 minutes blocks on to blocks off and they are on twice the money'
No service= No mess.
No wonder they can turn around so quickly.
No service= No mess.
No wonder they can turn around so quickly.
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It's DJ!!!!!!!
This post is to all the kindergarten airline workers who insist on calling Virgin Blue 'VB'. Get it right guys, the two-letter IATA code is DJ.
FYI: VB is the code for 'Maersk Air' in the UK; and outside of airlines, it's an Aussie beer, as anyone who's worked a hard day would know!
FYI: VB is the code for 'Maersk Air' in the UK; and outside of airlines, it's an Aussie beer, as anyone who's worked a hard day would know!