Meeting Virgin Blue Minimums
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Meeting Virgin Blue Minimums
Hello all
I am posting this message to get some opinions about an issue I am faced with regarding my employment viability with Virgin Blue.
I have been trying to get a job at VB for 10 months now, through the regular pilot staffcv.com site, with absolutely no bites.
I recently made some headway when I ran into a friend who I haven’t seen for a long time who works for VB and has GOOD connections to the right people, I gave them a resume and cover letter, and they said they would get it into the right hands, at that point I thought I must at least be in with a chance at an interview, Having an ATPL in Aus, converted from a USA ATP through the usual regulatory requirements and 3000 hours of flight time including 2000 hours of actual experience in domestic and flag scheduled airline operations both from the left and right seat . I was dismayed to say the least when I was informed that they wouldn’t consider me because I don’t have the theory credits for the issuance of the Aussie ATPL.Even though i have the actual licence.
Whilst it is true that the theory and flight tests involved in getting an American ATP are a lot easier to successfully complete than the ATPL theory, and therefore should not be considered equal, It is also true that successfully completing US Part 121 airline Basic Indoc, Systems, and flight sim training on multiple occasions is also quite difficult and requires the same level of dedication and effort as studying for ATPL theory, Additionally I am of the opinion that the Decision making, communication and multi tasking skills learnt whilst negotiating the day to day duties and problems associated with flying the line are far greater qualities for an airline pilot to have, and also are a better demonstration of a pilots ability to successfully complete training and become a competent team player, than those demonstrated by completing ATPL theory exams.
I want to work for VB more than anything, I know that I am the kind of person that would fit in perfectly there, I have dedicated the last six years of my life to get to this point, I am still in my 20’s and I was born and raised in Southern QLD and wish to settle here. If anybody has got any opinions or advice on how I can get past this problem or if you have had a similar problem in the past, I would love to hear from you
I am posting this message to get some opinions about an issue I am faced with regarding my employment viability with Virgin Blue.
I have been trying to get a job at VB for 10 months now, through the regular pilot staffcv.com site, with absolutely no bites.
I recently made some headway when I ran into a friend who I haven’t seen for a long time who works for VB and has GOOD connections to the right people, I gave them a resume and cover letter, and they said they would get it into the right hands, at that point I thought I must at least be in with a chance at an interview, Having an ATPL in Aus, converted from a USA ATP through the usual regulatory requirements and 3000 hours of flight time including 2000 hours of actual experience in domestic and flag scheduled airline operations both from the left and right seat . I was dismayed to say the least when I was informed that they wouldn’t consider me because I don’t have the theory credits for the issuance of the Aussie ATPL.Even though i have the actual licence.
Whilst it is true that the theory and flight tests involved in getting an American ATP are a lot easier to successfully complete than the ATPL theory, and therefore should not be considered equal, It is also true that successfully completing US Part 121 airline Basic Indoc, Systems, and flight sim training on multiple occasions is also quite difficult and requires the same level of dedication and effort as studying for ATPL theory, Additionally I am of the opinion that the Decision making, communication and multi tasking skills learnt whilst negotiating the day to day duties and problems associated with flying the line are far greater qualities for an airline pilot to have, and also are a better demonstration of a pilots ability to successfully complete training and become a competent team player, than those demonstrated by completing ATPL theory exams.
I want to work for VB more than anything, I know that I am the kind of person that would fit in perfectly there, I have dedicated the last six years of my life to get to this point, I am still in my 20’s and I was born and raised in Southern QLD and wish to settle here. If anybody has got any opinions or advice on how I can get past this problem or if you have had a similar problem in the past, I would love to hear from you
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Wizbang,
If you have hit a brick wall because you don't have the aussie ATPL credits, why not go and get them. If it makes VB happy and you really want the job, it's a small price to pay.
Best of luck,
AA
If you have hit a brick wall because you don't have the aussie ATPL credits, why not go and get them. If it makes VB happy and you really want the job, it's a small price to pay.
Best of luck,
AA
Wizbag, are you for real. I know people who have been trying since the day they announced they were coming to Australia, some here in the US, what's that, 2, 3 years!!!! with a lot more experience than you, get real, 10 months!!!! VB, according to John R have some 2000 pilots on the books via Pilot. staff, However still wish you luck.
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Hello,
Thanks for the replies, to alidad and airspeed ambassedor, thanks for the advice, I am already taking that option, including the Airlaw written I took for the conversion, I now have two under my belt, the problem is that it’s a time consuming process and also cash consuming, Im worried that I will miss the boat, so to speak, and the current hiring period will be over and done by the time I finish all the writtens, The fact that they don’t put the ATPL theory credit requirement on the pilot.staffcv site, or anywhere for that matter is also a tad upsetting especially for those who are working OS like I was at the time I decided I want to work for VB. The first thing you do when you decide you wanna work for a particular operator is find out if you meet their minimums, and when I read
And I quote “commercial pilot licence with ATPL theory credits OR ATPL. I was under the impression that I just had to get Aus, Instrument rating, first class medical and do a couple of airlaw written tests, go see CASA and id be in the running, . how can anybody, extract that extremely important piece of information about the theory credits, by looking at VB minimums, I was only lucky to find out because I had a friend in the company. Otherwise I wouldn’t have known the reason, which due to legality reasons is understandable.
Now I still most definitely have not given up on VB, im writing in this forum because I am confronted with an extremely frustrating situation and from reading here in the past, it would seem that it’s a great way to vent your frustration when it concerns the aviation industry
Now to Farrari, your post is from the heart mate, good to see. And I see your point. I understand that there are a lot of frustrated pilots out there who would love to work for VB and aren’t getting called. I don’t think that I deserve a job at VB more than the next person.I Do think though that when in a grey area like this it would be more prudent for an employer to consider a pilots past experience more relevant than their theory test experience, when it comes to evaluating ones ability to exceed the expectations placed apon them by their employers, and by not considering me or anyone else in my position for employment that is exactly what VB are doing.
The opinions I have presented above are mine alone and in no way meant to upset anybody
Thanks for the replies, to alidad and airspeed ambassedor, thanks for the advice, I am already taking that option, including the Airlaw written I took for the conversion, I now have two under my belt, the problem is that it’s a time consuming process and also cash consuming, Im worried that I will miss the boat, so to speak, and the current hiring period will be over and done by the time I finish all the writtens, The fact that they don’t put the ATPL theory credit requirement on the pilot.staffcv site, or anywhere for that matter is also a tad upsetting especially for those who are working OS like I was at the time I decided I want to work for VB. The first thing you do when you decide you wanna work for a particular operator is find out if you meet their minimums, and when I read
And I quote “commercial pilot licence with ATPL theory credits OR ATPL. I was under the impression that I just had to get Aus, Instrument rating, first class medical and do a couple of airlaw written tests, go see CASA and id be in the running, . how can anybody, extract that extremely important piece of information about the theory credits, by looking at VB minimums, I was only lucky to find out because I had a friend in the company. Otherwise I wouldn’t have known the reason, which due to legality reasons is understandable.
Now I still most definitely have not given up on VB, im writing in this forum because I am confronted with an extremely frustrating situation and from reading here in the past, it would seem that it’s a great way to vent your frustration when it concerns the aviation industry
Now to Farrari, your post is from the heart mate, good to see. And I see your point. I understand that there are a lot of frustrated pilots out there who would love to work for VB and aren’t getting called. I don’t think that I deserve a job at VB more than the next person.I Do think though that when in a grey area like this it would be more prudent for an employer to consider a pilots past experience more relevant than their theory test experience, when it comes to evaluating ones ability to exceed the expectations placed apon them by their employers, and by not considering me or anyone else in my position for employment that is exactly what VB are doing.
The opinions I have presented above are mine alone and in no way meant to upset anybody
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Whizbang
It's hard to read a post and pick up all the nuances there in, so if I've got it wrong, I appologise in advance.
You sound a bit like some of the folk I fly with, who keep telling me how much better things were done in their old airline. Who try to keep doing things the way they think best and resist accepting and adopting the SOPs to which I and most of my colleagues work.
The only answer when the 'new kid on the block'; find out what the employer wants, in this case Aussie ATP theory, and do it. Lamenting that you know you're what they want is pointless.
I happen to agree with you in some respects, an ATP is an ATP. BUT it's their plane set, just like QF won't consider me as I've not matriculated, nor will VB because in my mid 40's I'm considered too old.
You sound a bit like some of the folk I fly with, who keep telling me how much better things were done in their old airline. Who try to keep doing things the way they think best and resist accepting and adopting the SOPs to which I and most of my colleagues work.
The only answer when the 'new kid on the block'; find out what the employer wants, in this case Aussie ATP theory, and do it. Lamenting that you know you're what they want is pointless.
I happen to agree with you in some respects, an ATP is an ATP. BUT it's their plane set, just like QF won't consider me as I've not matriculated, nor will VB because in my mid 40's I'm considered too old.
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I think we need to accept the fact that as a young, rapidly expanding airline their recruitment needs to target a wide range of experience levels. Therefore, we need to accept the fact that there will be people with more experience than us getting jobs and people with less experience than us getting jobs.
If it is true that they have 2000 applications in the pile then the chance of a phone call becomes more like winning the lottery!
If it is true that they have 2000 applications in the pile then the chance of a phone call becomes more like winning the lottery!
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Shagtastic,
UK and JAR ATPL theory exams are certainly harder to pass than the Australian ATPL theory exams – but that’s not because the exams are of a higher standard.
As a nation, the UK seems to take particular pride in doing just about everything by the most difficult, most circuitous, and most expensive method possible - including ATPL theory exams. The overly bureaucratic administrative processes, exorbitant charges, lack of availability (both in terms of geography and timing) and generally xenophobic policies of the UK CAA make the UK ATPL theory exams quite a difficult, frustrating, time consuming, financially draining and generally demeaning process to go through – none of which contributes a brass-razzoo towards flight safety.
Even the UK CAA examination officers admit that their tests are silly. One UK CAA guy told me, “We know these exams are nothing to do with flying aeroplanes - but we want to make them hard so that only people who REALLY want to be pilots can get a licence.”
In reality the UK CAA is a political puppet with BALPA, the British pilots union, pulling the strings. The UK ATPL theory exams are nothing at all to do with flight safety, but are everything to do with protectionist employment policies.
So whilst it is true that it is harder and more expensive to get a UK or JAR ATPL, it is, in my view, most definitely NOT because they are of a higher standard.
wizbang123,
Pass the exams – get a job.
UK and JAR ATPL theory exams are certainly harder to pass than the Australian ATPL theory exams – but that’s not because the exams are of a higher standard.
As a nation, the UK seems to take particular pride in doing just about everything by the most difficult, most circuitous, and most expensive method possible - including ATPL theory exams. The overly bureaucratic administrative processes, exorbitant charges, lack of availability (both in terms of geography and timing) and generally xenophobic policies of the UK CAA make the UK ATPL theory exams quite a difficult, frustrating, time consuming, financially draining and generally demeaning process to go through – none of which contributes a brass-razzoo towards flight safety.
Even the UK CAA examination officers admit that their tests are silly. One UK CAA guy told me, “We know these exams are nothing to do with flying aeroplanes - but we want to make them hard so that only people who REALLY want to be pilots can get a licence.”
In reality the UK CAA is a political puppet with BALPA, the British pilots union, pulling the strings. The UK ATPL theory exams are nothing at all to do with flight safety, but are everything to do with protectionist employment policies.
So whilst it is true that it is harder and more expensive to get a UK or JAR ATPL, it is, in my view, most definitely NOT because they are of a higher standard.
wizbang123,
Pass the exams – get a job.
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I wouldn't waste my time WIZBANG 123 as I know of a few pilots that are in there that like myself did the US FAA conversion... I have also heard of the crap that they won't take you unless you have passes in aussie subjects..Maybe it was there way of saying to some..SORRY but!!!!
Put it another way.......I got a bit worried when was told they might not take US converted pilots but I'm sure at the end of the day the way VB's interviewing goes, I'm sure they don't ask to bring ATPL credits along??? If they did they would do all the other BullS HIT that Qantas does! and they don't!!!!!Im sure VB want a good pilot and not a good acedemic..
Cheers
Put it another way.......I got a bit worried when was told they might not take US converted pilots but I'm sure at the end of the day the way VB's interviewing goes, I'm sure they don't ask to bring ATPL credits along??? If they did they would do all the other BullS HIT that Qantas does! and they don't!!!!!Im sure VB want a good pilot and not a good acedemic..
Cheers
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BIK_116.80
You're not bitter about something are you???
To all the hard working deicated antipodean pilots who robbed a bank and made the effort the find work in the UK your post is nothing more than an insult.
It's better than passing yet another set of irrelevant ATPL exams and still remaining unemployed as you might downunder...
You're not bitter about something are you???
To all the hard working deicated antipodean pilots who robbed a bank and made the effort the find work in the UK your post is nothing more than an insult.
It's better than passing yet another set of irrelevant ATPL exams and still remaining unemployed as you might downunder...
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Shagtastic,
Bitter – yes. Bitter that the UK CAA’s pilot licensing process is used to implement policies that are unrelated to flight safety. It is my belief that a pilot licensing process should be for the sole purpose of enhancing flight safety by ensuring that those entering the industry possess at least a certain a minimum level of knowledge, skill and experience. It is also my belief that there should be a truly global pilot license that would allow a professional pilot to fly an aircraft in commercial service irrespective of which ICAO member state the aircraft is registered in, and that immigration and international mobility of labour issues should be the domain of immigration departments – not aviation safety regulators.
An insult to expatriate Australian pilots? Hardly! Quite the opposite, I suggest.
BTW – who are you calling “antipodeans”? “Antipodes” is a relative term, not an absolute one. From the perspective of an ozmate it is the poms that are the “antipodeans”.
Bitter – yes. Bitter that the UK CAA’s pilot licensing process is used to implement policies that are unrelated to flight safety. It is my belief that a pilot licensing process should be for the sole purpose of enhancing flight safety by ensuring that those entering the industry possess at least a certain a minimum level of knowledge, skill and experience. It is also my belief that there should be a truly global pilot license that would allow a professional pilot to fly an aircraft in commercial service irrespective of which ICAO member state the aircraft is registered in, and that immigration and international mobility of labour issues should be the domain of immigration departments – not aviation safety regulators.
An insult to expatriate Australian pilots? Hardly! Quite the opposite, I suggest.
BTW – who are you calling “antipodeans”? “Antipodes” is a relative term, not an absolute one. From the perspective of an ozmate it is the poms that are the “antipodeans”.
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Wrong!
G'day Baron,
I'm afraid you are wrong re: Aus ATPL requirement,yes it is very true that MANY present Virgin pilots got it with their converted FAA ticket,but that was then! The goal posts have been well and truly moved,and you won't even get past Alison without 7 blue slips in your hand.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
I'm afraid you are wrong re: Aus ATPL requirement,yes it is very true that MANY present Virgin pilots got it with their converted FAA ticket,but that was then! The goal posts have been well and truly moved,and you won't even get past Alison without 7 blue slips in your hand.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news!
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farcupp77
I would like to think if you are correct that Allison would have changed the staffcv requirements to read PASSES IN AUSSIE SUBJECTS!!!....Especially if it makes her job easier in sifting through 1000000000000's of resumes....
It would seem logical rather than having ****loads of reumes on file that cannot be processed further!!!!!!!!!!!
I would like to think if you are correct that Allison would have changed the staffcv requirements to read PASSES IN AUSSIE SUBJECTS!!!....Especially if it makes her job easier in sifting through 1000000000000's of resumes....
It would seem logical rather than having ****loads of reumes on file that cannot be processed further!!!!!!!!!!!
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I don't disagree with you at all Baron,that would make perfect sense,I guess they havn't got round to it yet. But regardless of what the site says,no theory no job!
I thought this was old news
I thought this was old news
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BIK_116.80
You thoughts on an international licence are quite correct and I think that was the original belief behind the JAA licence. A free flow of labour in a common market.
But do you see the frogs giving jobs to foreign (EU) pilots? They won't even speak English on the radio.
I wouldn't put the boot into the Brits too quickly given that they do hire a lot of foriegn pilots and to their credit.
You thoughts on an international licence are quite correct and I think that was the original belief behind the JAA licence. A free flow of labour in a common market.
But do you see the frogs giving jobs to foreign (EU) pilots? They won't even speak English on the radio.
I wouldn't put the boot into the Brits too quickly given that they do hire a lot of foriegn pilots and to their credit.
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Seems to be that VB can and will use an arbitory point to their advantage.I know of a couple of guys that were knocked back because they did the US thing,but were still operating or had operated in an airline in Aus,but around the same time guys who again had gone the US path had been accepted into the Blue.Seems like a screening method for who they dont want!
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!!!!!
PERHAPS i DIDN'T SAY IT LOUD ENOUGH,STRAIGHT FROM THE BIG MAN'S MOUTH,AUS THEORY IS NOW A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT,END OF STORY!
This came about as the folks in charge at DJ cottoned on to the practice of shortcutting the system and heading off to the US for an express qualification,HOWEVER, those on the other end of the experience curve (eg extensive jet experience overseas)may be allowed to pass through the net with the conversion.But to all us LESSER aviators,7 passes,or NO GO.
This came about as the folks in charge at DJ cottoned on to the practice of shortcutting the system and heading off to the US for an express qualification,HOWEVER, those on the other end of the experience curve (eg extensive jet experience overseas)may be allowed to pass through the net with the conversion.But to all us LESSER aviators,7 passes,or NO GO.