Meeting Virgin Blue Minimums
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Sounds like a few people are afraid of a bit of hard work!!!
And you no the old saying ,Its who you know ,not what you know.
All the time you get on here you could be studying for atpl
And you no the old saying ,Its who you know ,not what you know.
All the time you get on here you could be studying for atpl
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Why should VB or anyone else in Oz accept converted a UK/JAR ATPL, or any other for that matter Shagtastic? Does the UK/JAR system accept a converted Aussie one? As you so rightly point out, "Not without lotsa MONEY AND WORK" So, one set of rules for them, another for us?? I don't think so.
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Dale Harris,
With all due respect don't go knocking the British system, as was said earlier there are few other countries arond Europe that employ as many Australian Pilots as here in the UK.
If there was a small survey comparing the number of Australian pilots working in the UK against the number of British pilots working in Australia, I suspect I know which would be the larger group by a big margin.
Most British pilots think the UK system is silly also but we are stuck with it and its just another hoop to jump through.
With all due respect don't go knocking the British system, as was said earlier there are few other countries arond Europe that employ as many Australian Pilots as here in the UK.
If there was a small survey comparing the number of Australian pilots working in the UK against the number of British pilots working in Australia, I suspect I know which would be the larger group by a big margin.
Most British pilots think the UK system is silly also but we are stuck with it and its just another hoop to jump through.
Last edited by Amazon man; 13th Nov 2002 at 11:29.
on your FM dial
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Amazon Man,
How can you determine someone's nationality over the radio?
Is it possible that you might be hastily pigeon-holing people based on their accents?
Although this method of geographical categorisation may be valid for people from small UK villages that have enjoyed the many benefits of 500 years of in-breeding, it is NOT a valid method to determine someone's nationality.
I suggest that the overwhelming majority of those you classify as Australian pilots are card carrying poms - it says so on the front of their British passport. The only difference is that they have had the advantage of a better up-bringing in Australia.
The reason that there are lots of Australian-trained pilots working in the UK (and in every other country in the world) is for the very simple reason that their skills are in demand. There is a shortage of skilled and experienced pilots in the UK (believe it or not) whilst there are a large number of highly skilled and highly experienced pilots in Australia.
I perceive very little demand for British pilots in Australia based simply on the supply and demand situation in the pilot employment market. A British pilot with 1,200 hours and average skills in the UK would expect to be flying a Boeing or an Airbus. In Australia they would be flying a 1974 Chieftain and trying very hard to get an interview for a Dash 8 co-pilot job. Why would they bother to emigrate?
"Most British pilots think the UK system is silly also but we are stuck with it..."
What a defeatist attitude. But I guess that comes with the territory.
How can you determine someone's nationality over the radio?
Is it possible that you might be hastily pigeon-holing people based on their accents?
Although this method of geographical categorisation may be valid for people from small UK villages that have enjoyed the many benefits of 500 years of in-breeding, it is NOT a valid method to determine someone's nationality.
I suggest that the overwhelming majority of those you classify as Australian pilots are card carrying poms - it says so on the front of their British passport. The only difference is that they have had the advantage of a better up-bringing in Australia.
The reason that there are lots of Australian-trained pilots working in the UK (and in every other country in the world) is for the very simple reason that their skills are in demand. There is a shortage of skilled and experienced pilots in the UK (believe it or not) whilst there are a large number of highly skilled and highly experienced pilots in Australia.
I perceive very little demand for British pilots in Australia based simply on the supply and demand situation in the pilot employment market. A British pilot with 1,200 hours and average skills in the UK would expect to be flying a Boeing or an Airbus. In Australia they would be flying a 1974 Chieftain and trying very hard to get an interview for a Dash 8 co-pilot job. Why would they bother to emigrate?
"Most British pilots think the UK system is silly also but we are stuck with it..."
What a defeatist attitude. But I guess that comes with the territory.
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The UK CAA attitude to foreign licences is pathetic but for those of us who did the conversion we now have a high standard licence that enables one to actualy score a turboprop/jet job which counts the most.
It just makes the industry look pretty sad if yet another employer (VB etc) refuses to accept what is a good licence for no real apparent reason.
It just makes the industry look pretty sad if yet another employer (VB etc) refuses to accept what is a good licence for no real apparent reason.
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Shagtastic
I write:
The Virgin Blue attitude to foreign licences is pathetic but for those of us who did the conversion we now have a high standard licence that enables one to actualy score a turboprop/jet job which counts the most
I write:
It just makes the industry look pretty sad if the regulator refuses to accept what is a good licence for no apparent reason.
"Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all"
The UK CAA attitude to foreign licences is pathetic but for those of us who did the conversion we now have a high standard licence that enables one to actualy score a turboprop/jet job which counts the most.
The Virgin Blue attitude to foreign licences is pathetic but for those of us who did the conversion we now have a high standard licence that enables one to actualy score a turboprop/jet job which counts the most
It just makes the industry look pretty sad if yet another employer (VB etc) refuses to accept what is a good licence for no real apparent reason.
It just makes the industry look pretty sad if the regulator refuses to accept what is a good licence for no apparent reason.
"Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all"
Well I guess it is a matter of perceptions. VB requires you to do some work to get your licence. QANTAS requires that you pass a number of HSC subjects.
Many many VB pilots don't wither have a hsc or don't have the passes required to get into QF.
They can still drive the aeroplane successfully.
It is a filter I guess.
Many many VB pilots don't wither have a hsc or don't have the passes required to get into QF.
They can still drive the aeroplane successfully.
It is a filter I guess.
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True DHD, I see it the same way. QF use the HSC and the physic tests to filter applicants and DJ are using the Aussie ATPL theory passes. It has nothing to do which licence is the best, it's just their filter process. It's their company and aircraft so their choice.
Props are for boats!
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Well thats it for me too. If I want VB, I must go back to the books and get those subjects as well, even though....
I have 4000TT with an Aussie ATPL,USATP,NZATPL,and a Carribean Model ATP all ICAO WHAT EVER THAT MEANS!!!!
When I got my USATP I went and worked on it and others for quite some time accumulating 90% of my Multi Turbine time. Does that mean I did the dodgey? I hope not, Ive earnt way more cash on my US, and other Licences.
You are not alone mate. My dilema is do I do the UK ATP next or come back to do the Aussie and do the magnificent seven Subjects! Ah choices, choices....
I have 4000TT with an Aussie ATPL,USATP,NZATPL,and a Carribean Model ATP all ICAO WHAT EVER THAT MEANS!!!!
When I got my USATP I went and worked on it and others for quite some time accumulating 90% of my Multi Turbine time. Does that mean I did the dodgey? I hope not, Ive earnt way more cash on my US, and other Licences.
You are not alone mate. My dilema is do I do the UK ATP next or come back to do the Aussie and do the magnificent seven Subjects! Ah choices, choices....
Last edited by Sheep Guts; 16th Nov 2002 at 03:40.
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If you had done your commercial licence here is OZ and then got a job in the USA and converted your licence and then spent a few years flying over there then VB would accept your converted ATPL. What they are trying to do is stamp out those who took the easy road and did a US ATPL instead of going to hard yards and doing the Australian ATPL in the first place. I bet none of you were complaining when you did your US ATPL in under a week while the rest of us took a few months.
You can't complain now that companies in OZ won't look at your application now. Get off your ass and start studying.
You can't complain now that companies in OZ won't look at your application now. Get off your ass and start studying.
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what now
I have Aussie CPL/IR passed 5 Atpl exams...Then went to UK, Passed all 14 Jar atpl exams( and spent $45000) now have frozen Jar UK Atpl and will be unfrezen on completion of skill test in Multi crew aircraft >5700 kg, However now returning to Oz..Don't tell me I have now to coplete the remainig two Assuie exams for the Aussie Atpl!!!!!!
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The point I would like to make here is that it's the regulatory authority (CAA) in the UK that puts up the brick wall when it comes to licence recognition and NOT the airlines.
The British aviaition industry is user friendly and employs a lot of Aussies so why should a company in Australia snub ATPL's converted from foreign licences?
The British aviaition industry is user friendly and employs a lot of Aussies so why should a company in Australia snub ATPL's converted from foreign licences?
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I personally know at least one VB pilot who is coming up for their command in the next month who never did the Australin ATPL subjects. They did the U.S. route.
I am not taking anything away from the person concerned. They fly very well and doing/not doing the subjects has nothing to do with their capability. I am sure they will pass their command with flying colours.
The person concerned originally got the job because they have the right connections.
The point is as with many/most airlines today, you must jump through the hoops, be lucky that your resume falls on the right desk or best of all have the connections.
Don't despair for the people who feel they are on the outside. We all fell this way at some time. Patience is a virtue, nothing happens overnight and be kind to the people you meet on the way up as you always meet them again on the way down.
I am not taking anything away from the person concerned. They fly very well and doing/not doing the subjects has nothing to do with their capability. I am sure they will pass their command with flying colours.
The person concerned originally got the job because they have the right connections.
The point is as with many/most airlines today, you must jump through the hoops, be lucky that your resume falls on the right desk or best of all have the connections.
Don't despair for the people who feel they are on the outside. We all fell this way at some time. Patience is a virtue, nothing happens overnight and be kind to the people you meet on the way up as you always meet them again on the way down.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Shagtastic,
I think you'll find doing the FAA theory exams a lot easier than either the UK, JAR, NZ or Aus ATPL theory exams. I think that is what VB are looking at. eg, Aussie sees loop hole in system. Instead of doing the Aus ATPL, goes to the US and does the FAA exams (flying?). They are then issued with an FAA ATPL. On the strength of that FAA ATPL they then hop back to Australia and do the conversion exam. A lot easier I believe.
A Brit with a JAR or UK ATPL I feel wouldn't be discriminated (in this way) by converting their lic to an Aus one.
I think what BIK 116.8 gets aggro about is the difference between what an Australian pilot has to go through to convert their ATPL versus what a foreign lic holder has to do to convert their lic to an Aus ATPL.
Having just converted my Aust ATPL to a JAR ATPL it isn't easy.
I think you'll find doing the FAA theory exams a lot easier than either the UK, JAR, NZ or Aus ATPL theory exams. I think that is what VB are looking at. eg, Aussie sees loop hole in system. Instead of doing the Aus ATPL, goes to the US and does the FAA exams (flying?). They are then issued with an FAA ATPL. On the strength of that FAA ATPL they then hop back to Australia and do the conversion exam. A lot easier I believe.
A Brit with a JAR or UK ATPL I feel wouldn't be discriminated (in this way) by converting their lic to an Aus one.
I think what BIK 116.8 gets aggro about is the difference between what an Australian pilot has to go through to convert their ATPL versus what a foreign lic holder has to do to convert their lic to an Aus ATPL.
Having just converted my Aust ATPL to a JAR ATPL it isn't easy.
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I fly know three Aussie captains in the UK (All had previously had commands in Aus - and I know that at least two of them were not involved in the '89 mess). All are currently flying the B737NG and none of them could get interviews for F/O positions at VB!!
Props are for boats!
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Well I beleive for me the only choice is to do the subjects. The other option for me to do the UK ATPL.
Will cost me $58,350.00 .Whew
Not for me, bring on the oz subjects.
Will cost me $58,350.00 .Whew
Not for me, bring on the oz subjects.
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Are they over 40 y/o Commando ?, that is apparently the latest barrier that has been erected, that and they are looking for pilots with plenty of jet command time ( which they obviously have ).
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well i also have a converted oz ATPL from US and 3 weeks ago , successfully did the aptitude tests for Qantas coming back for the sim and interview soon. I was upfront and honest with Qantas and was told this will not affect the "competitiveness" of my application at all. So who knows!!However they did want to see my UK atpl theory passes. But again not a prerequisite.
PS guys are getting interviews with VB from the UK with converted OZ/USA ATPLs but with 2-3000 hours jet time. I have not heard tickidy boo! and my application has been in longer so again who knows!
PS guys are getting interviews with VB from the UK with converted OZ/USA ATPLs but with 2-3000 hours jet time. I have not heard tickidy boo! and my application has been in longer so again who knows!