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Excellent analysis FSU....so the airlines could have had all the pilots they wanted without using any ex-AFAP pilots but instead they chose an extremely expensive contract to lure back former pilots instead of offering the much lower salaries that have recently attracted ex-GA guys to VB and Impulse.
You have now given us all a great insight into why all 4 airlines are gone.
You have now given us all a great insight into why all 4 airlines are gone.
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What does this mean???
"check essential... essentials on 3 skipper"
Is it meant to be funny? Or an indication of someone's stress levels?? Weird...
I think you guys should relax a little. You're all hanging on too tight. Turn your own wings in.
"check essential... essentials on 3 skipper"
Is it meant to be funny? Or an indication of someone's stress levels?? Weird...
I think you guys should relax a little. You're all hanging on too tight. Turn your own wings in.
Last edited by 203; 25th Sep 2002 at 06:50.
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elektra,
I really don't have time to waste going over simple maths time and again to disprove your fictitious pay claims. It has been demonstrated clearly that pay based on STICK Hours was much cheaper than the CREDITED hours of the old system when even pilots on reserve got 74 hours pay for NO FLYING.
It was way past time for a change to a more efficient and productive contract.The AFAP did not have the wit to recognise that.
Bye.
203,
elektra is still living in the past. The Essential Bus on the L188A ELECTRA had a predetermined priority as to which generator it was powered from. Depending on availabilty of generators it skipped merrily around from one to another and was designed to be the last man standing.
I really don't have time to waste going over simple maths time and again to disprove your fictitious pay claims. It has been demonstrated clearly that pay based on STICK Hours was much cheaper than the CREDITED hours of the old system when even pilots on reserve got 74 hours pay for NO FLYING.
It was way past time for a change to a more efficient and productive contract.The AFAP did not have the wit to recognise that.
Bye.
203,
elektra is still living in the past. The Essential Bus on the L188A ELECTRA had a predetermined priority as to which generator it was powered from. Depending on availabilty of generators it skipped merrily around from one to another and was designed to be the last man standing.
Last edited by Flat Side Up; 25th Sep 2002 at 06:53.
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FSU, Thanks,
More excellent analysis. But I still don't understand why the airlines paid above the going rate to get the ex-GA pilots they could have had in large numbers for chickenfeed (there was a recession on wasn't there?). Was there an element of "Recruitment Bonus" in there somewhere...?
And "Check Essential" is from the B727 actually. Great machine. The phrase is simply a little reminder of an elegant jet. Or does my AFAP membership disbar me from even that little vanity?
Had enough of this. Back to the real world. Sorry about the lost airlines that superior mathematics and "me first" policies helped kill. When you, like the rest of us, get on with life and stop sweating over dead airlines then you'll enjoy life more. I say that with complete sincerity...they're gone and you don't need to keep defending what you did. Build a new life and turn your back on the decisions you made then that seem to haunt you.
More excellent analysis. But I still don't understand why the airlines paid above the going rate to get the ex-GA pilots they could have had in large numbers for chickenfeed (there was a recession on wasn't there?). Was there an element of "Recruitment Bonus" in there somewhere...?
And "Check Essential" is from the B727 actually. Great machine. The phrase is simply a little reminder of an elegant jet. Or does my AFAP membership disbar me from even that little vanity?
Had enough of this. Back to the real world. Sorry about the lost airlines that superior mathematics and "me first" policies helped kill. When you, like the rest of us, get on with life and stop sweating over dead airlines then you'll enjoy life more. I say that with complete sincerity...they're gone and you don't need to keep defending what you did. Build a new life and turn your back on the decisions you made then that seem to haunt you.
Last edited by elektra; 25th Sep 2002 at 07:12.
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Now look!...I've told you all before, over the last couple of years...don't waste your time with FSU!
Once a scab,always a scab. Once a person rats the first time, they'll rat again!
Hopefully he will just get on with his life like the rest of us and not dwell on the past!
He's a loser, we all know that!
Once a scab,always a scab. Once a person rats the first time, they'll rat again!
Hopefully he will just get on with his life like the rest of us and not dwell on the past!
He's a loser, we all know that!
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To those of our number capable of logical thought, and I do not include TTT, KaptinM, Amos 2, Spade, greybeard, etc in that group, you will never convince the likes of those posters of any merit in any argument with which they take issue. It is of no consequence that your argument is logical, e.g., they have had it demonstrated many, many times that the cost for pilots in the post 89 AN was much less than prior to 89, but they just can't, or most likely won't, grasp the simple principle of productivity versus bulk $$.
They remind me of early primary school, and it's a wonder to me that one of them at some time hasn't spoken the line 'My Dad is better than your Dad', because they are just not prepared to be convinced. Their versions of the events simply do not accord with the facts. They twist whatever is put before them into a pathetic counter 'argument' so thin that it could be disproved by an intellectually impaired pre-schooler.
As for the 'big lie', I believe the only big lies were told by the AFAP heirarchy; e.g., 'the resignations won't be used unless writs are issued.' They were submitted the following morning without writs being issued. 'There are no foreign pilots in the country working for the airlines.' There were 50, and they were recruited prior to August ??, proof positive that the airines' managements knew of this 'brilliant' tactic long before it was played out with such bravado, thereby finishing the careers of about 800 pilots without their consent. I could go on, and on, and on, but to what purpose. Bringing these foreign pilots to the country, and the enormous cost of failing, gave the companies the resolve to continue down the path they chose.
Another point is that seldom does a group of employees, and a group the size of this one, take on town hall and even hope to win, let alone win. I despise Hawke as well, but he was never going to lose.
What you guys must realize is this: sooner or later, and it appears that is much later for many of you, you must accept responsibility for past events. You chose a course of action that even the sheep farmers from Tassie termed 'put our futures in the hands of people who weren't up to the task.' That says it all. If you then continued to follow them down that path, then it is your problem, not the problem of anyone else. You attempt to make it so, but it is not, nor ever will be.
These malcontents just gloss over facts that are put before them, failing to respond, and continuing with the same old hackneyed rhetoric, attacking the individual, but seldom the points of discussion. Worthy of note is that their numbers are few!
The tragic name calling cannot pass without comment. I put this down, as any person capable of rational thought would do, to a lack of maturity, i.e., they are very immature individuals, and I wonder what a member of the public would think if he/she knew he was in an aircraft being captained by somebody so incapable of, for reasons of immaturity, rational behaviour. It is a matter for serious concern.
Just accept that you made a decision with which you are now having difficulty living, do some serious self analysis, make a conscious decision to cause yourself less grief by modifying that behaviour, and get on with your lives.
Arctaurus and Truth Seeker, your simple points (and I say that not in any derogatory manner) sum up the entire situation, and have been made in these forums hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the past, but it does not suit the 'boys' to simplify the situation to these points. It is that simple, however; resign, no job, no longer a dispute, no bargaining power. End of story. Everything else is incidental, if not irrelevant, to the discussion.
They remind me of early primary school, and it's a wonder to me that one of them at some time hasn't spoken the line 'My Dad is better than your Dad', because they are just not prepared to be convinced. Their versions of the events simply do not accord with the facts. They twist whatever is put before them into a pathetic counter 'argument' so thin that it could be disproved by an intellectually impaired pre-schooler.
As for the 'big lie', I believe the only big lies were told by the AFAP heirarchy; e.g., 'the resignations won't be used unless writs are issued.' They were submitted the following morning without writs being issued. 'There are no foreign pilots in the country working for the airlines.' There were 50, and they were recruited prior to August ??, proof positive that the airines' managements knew of this 'brilliant' tactic long before it was played out with such bravado, thereby finishing the careers of about 800 pilots without their consent. I could go on, and on, and on, but to what purpose. Bringing these foreign pilots to the country, and the enormous cost of failing, gave the companies the resolve to continue down the path they chose.
Another point is that seldom does a group of employees, and a group the size of this one, take on town hall and even hope to win, let alone win. I despise Hawke as well, but he was never going to lose.
What you guys must realize is this: sooner or later, and it appears that is much later for many of you, you must accept responsibility for past events. You chose a course of action that even the sheep farmers from Tassie termed 'put our futures in the hands of people who weren't up to the task.' That says it all. If you then continued to follow them down that path, then it is your problem, not the problem of anyone else. You attempt to make it so, but it is not, nor ever will be.
These malcontents just gloss over facts that are put before them, failing to respond, and continuing with the same old hackneyed rhetoric, attacking the individual, but seldom the points of discussion. Worthy of note is that their numbers are few!
The tragic name calling cannot pass without comment. I put this down, as any person capable of rational thought would do, to a lack of maturity, i.e., they are very immature individuals, and I wonder what a member of the public would think if he/she knew he was in an aircraft being captained by somebody so incapable of, for reasons of immaturity, rational behaviour. It is a matter for serious concern.
Just accept that you made a decision with which you are now having difficulty living, do some serious self analysis, make a conscious decision to cause yourself less grief by modifying that behaviour, and get on with your lives.
Arctaurus and Truth Seeker, your simple points (and I say that not in any derogatory manner) sum up the entire situation, and have been made in these forums hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the past, but it does not suit the 'boys' to simplify the situation to these points. It is that simple, however; resign, no job, no longer a dispute, no bargaining power. End of story. Everything else is incidental, if not irrelevant, to the discussion.
Last edited by CitizenXX; 28th Sep 2002 at 05:12.
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FSU
Can you e-mail me or post the name of the American anti-labor psycholgist who wrote that piece for you? It's not a bad summary of the stuff that was going around then in '89 and I only got snatches of it from former friends (I'm making a decision for my family...What did the union ever do for me...I'm just taking control over my life...I'm just taking my job back etc) I never got a complete statement of the drivel they fed you. Perhaps we should frame it so we can all remember just what we were up against. Have you thought of posting your ownthoughts?
Alternately, if that was a joke...then I withdraw my Irish joke idea. Yours was better by far. Laugh...I thought I'd die!
Can you e-mail me or post the name of the American anti-labor psycholgist who wrote that piece for you? It's not a bad summary of the stuff that was going around then in '89 and I only got snatches of it from former friends (I'm making a decision for my family...What did the union ever do for me...I'm just taking control over my life...I'm just taking my job back etc) I never got a complete statement of the drivel they fed you. Perhaps we should frame it so we can all remember just what we were up against. Have you thought of posting your ownthoughts?
Alternately, if that was a joke...then I withdraw my Irish joke idea. Yours was better by far. Laugh...I thought I'd die!
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elektra, you can find a laugh in anything, can't you. bet you're the guy always telling jokes at the party. the dispute was not a laughing matter it hurt a lot of people, and not only the airline pilots involved.no point in crying in your beer every day about something that happened 13 years ago.
The AFAP should have fought that one using traditional union strategy - but NO they thought they would get cute. broadcast to the government and companies (via Go Around)what was going to happen,work a 9 to 5 campaign, resign en-mass and then, after months of misery for the general public, tourist industry, hospitality industry, sporting clubs, large business, small business and the list goes on & on & on. they say all bets are off and we'll go back in time for Xmas!
Oh that's a real laugh elektra !
no, you stick to your Irish jokes, they are not that much better, but they don't hurt anyone.
The AFAP should have fought that one using traditional union strategy - but NO they thought they would get cute. broadcast to the government and companies (via Go Around)what was going to happen,work a 9 to 5 campaign, resign en-mass and then, after months of misery for the general public, tourist industry, hospitality industry, sporting clubs, large business, small business and the list goes on & on & on. they say all bets are off and we'll go back in time for Xmas!
Oh that's a real laugh elektra !
no, you stick to your Irish jokes, they are not that much better, but they don't hurt anyone.
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Well here we are, back over the "magic ton" and so far I haven't had to bin anyone, so far.
I'm going to close this thread, for those who are interested, feel free to continue the discussion.
It is clear that as much as there are some who hope it would, that the events of '89 are not going away any time soon.
On second thoughts and looking at the views, approaching 11,000 it would seem that there is still a lot of interest and on that basis I will let it run for a little longer.
If you want me to restart the thread please say so and why here, and I will go from there.
I'm going to close this thread, for those who are interested, feel free to continue the discussion.
It is clear that as much as there are some who hope it would, that the events of '89 are not going away any time soon.
On second thoughts and looking at the views, approaching 11,000 it would seem that there is still a lot of interest and on that basis I will let it run for a little longer.
If you want me to restart the thread please say so and why here, and I will go from there.
Last edited by Woomera; 26th Sep 2002 at 03:37.
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Well I'll be honest and say that I don't specially enjoy the odd angry feeling that gets stirred up here...and I don't want to spend my Prune time trying to show why we on my side of the fence felt (and feel) betrayed.
But....as there's every chance this ('89) WILL happen again in some way, it's as well for us all (including newcomers) to see what was involved then so that when it happens to them they'll have an idea of what's involved and the threats and issues they'll face.
It is worth keeping the thread open if only as a public display of what professional pilots all know...that we have precious few reliable friends outside of our crew rooms and cockpits and that solidarity is all we have against the ills that will come from management, bean counters, CASA, government, competitors, media etc etc
But....as there's every chance this ('89) WILL happen again in some way, it's as well for us all (including newcomers) to see what was involved then so that when it happens to them they'll have an idea of what's involved and the threats and issues they'll face.
It is worth keeping the thread open if only as a public display of what professional pilots all know...that we have precious few reliable friends outside of our crew rooms and cockpits and that solidarity is all we have against the ills that will come from management, bean counters, CASA, government, competitors, media etc etc
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Two points
Woomera,
Two points, one YES, keep this thread open as for people who were too young to be aware of what was happening at the time, this is informative and eye opening.
Secondly, it keeps the other threads from being hijacked if this thread is running.
to others, Due to this thread running, I have sought outside information in the form of the book "Sky Pirates". Can I have some views on this from people involved. Is it credible? So far it seems pretty unbiased, but I am not that far into it.
Just some thoughts.
Dog
Two points, one YES, keep this thread open as for people who were too young to be aware of what was happening at the time, this is informative and eye opening.
Secondly, it keeps the other threads from being hijacked if this thread is running.
to others, Due to this thread running, I have sought outside information in the form of the book "Sky Pirates". Can I have some views on this from people involved. Is it credible? So far it seems pretty unbiased, but I am not that far into it.
Just some thoughts.
Dog
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
Aha, I see our `friend` CitizenXX has returned - for a short time I thought that he might have realised the damage he was doing to himself by posting here.
Speaking of spreadibng false truths, CX, a few posts back you indicated that the AFAP spy who was reporting to Abeles was "now with Virgin Blue in a senior position". However according to Brad Norrington in his book Sky Pirates, that pilot had returned to Ansett by early December.
You are indeed an artist of deception - however as someone commented earlier, it is no longer the compliant, young F/O`s you now need to convince of your proclaimed "victimisation". We were THERE, and we are HERE to expose you and your ilk for what you really are.
It appears as hard to convince YOU that the resignations were not a TACTIC, but were done on the recommendation of solid LEGAL advice.
However for that who INSIST that they (the resignations) were an industrial tactic, they must then be seen in the light of a "withdrawal of labour" - in which case there can be no disputing the title SCAB of those who intervened! Can there?!!
Further to the "scab" reference, it was used not only by the members of the AFAP - as a matter of fact a very good friend of mine who "went back" (who was vice chairman of one of the branches, and whose father had been a miner) admitted that HE was a "scab" - but also the word was used (again) by Brad Norrington, and members of other unions at the time to describe the likes of you and your`s.
Get used to it, you were WELL AWARE that when you "went back" YOU would wear that label?@for the rest of your life...however it was the lure of the $$`s that made it irrelevant at the time.
You seem to have a hard time accepting responsibility for YOUR OWN ACTIONS!
Crapulence!! And YOU can prove it.
Post your 3oth June `89 salary here, and then post your 30th June `91 salary.
The cost PER PILOT INCREASED without any shadow of a doubt.
I challenge you to do that!
Speaking of spreadibng false truths, CX, a few posts back you indicated that the AFAP spy who was reporting to Abeles was "now with Virgin Blue in a senior position". However according to Brad Norrington in his book Sky Pirates, that pilot had returned to Ansett by early December.
You are indeed an artist of deception - however as someone commented earlier, it is no longer the compliant, young F/O`s you now need to convince of your proclaimed "victimisation". We were THERE, and we are HERE to expose you and your ilk for what you really are.
It appears as hard to convince YOU that the resignations were not a TACTIC, but were done on the recommendation of solid LEGAL advice.
However for that who INSIST that they (the resignations) were an industrial tactic, they must then be seen in the light of a "withdrawal of labour" - in which case there can be no disputing the title SCAB of those who intervened! Can there?!!
Further to the "scab" reference, it was used not only by the members of the AFAP - as a matter of fact a very good friend of mine who "went back" (who was vice chairman of one of the branches, and whose father had been a miner) admitted that HE was a "scab" - but also the word was used (again) by Brad Norrington, and members of other unions at the time to describe the likes of you and your`s.
Get used to it, you were WELL AWARE that when you "went back" YOU would wear that label?@for the rest of your life...however it was the lure of the $$`s that made it irrelevant at the time.
You seem to have a hard time accepting responsibility for YOUR OWN ACTIONS!
...the cost per pilot in the post 89 AN was much less than prior to 89,
Post your 3oth June `89 salary here, and then post your 30th June `91 salary.
The cost PER PILOT INCREASED without any shadow of a doubt.
I challenge you to do that!
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kaptan M you say
you don't have to convince me - you are 100% correct legal advice WAS resign or face writs. However, where the AFAP got it horribly wrong, was after the resignations, the game plan HAD to be changed. it was no good sitting back and saying "we were forced to resign because of the writs". we were industrially decimated - finito!it was at this stage of the dispute the leadership got it wrong. this was when the "they are only trying to smash your union" platform started. no more 29.47% pay rise, no more we are "sui generis" so we should be outside the accord. just plain old there is another agenda - they are out to destroy the AFAP.
i suggest they were always out to destroy the AFAP. when the resignations went in we should have held meetings right then and there - on the 25th August to ascertain the feeling of the membership.my brother was not impressed and he would have said so. but the AFAP waited more than two weeks before holding "rallies" around the countryside - NOT MEETINGS - but rallies with wives, families and anyone else they could muster for the call to save the AFAP from this tyranny.
well they got support and people there was sympathy for the AFAP but it never addressed what the original fight was all about - that finished the day brian mac delivered the resignations - make no mistake or be under any misapprehension about that.
It appears as hard to convince YOU that the resignations were not a TACTIC, but were done on the recommendation of solid LEGAL advice.
i suggest they were always out to destroy the AFAP. when the resignations went in we should have held meetings right then and there - on the 25th August to ascertain the feeling of the membership.my brother was not impressed and he would have said so. but the AFAP waited more than two weeks before holding "rallies" around the countryside - NOT MEETINGS - but rallies with wives, families and anyone else they could muster for the call to save the AFAP from this tyranny.
well they got support and people there was sympathy for the AFAP but it never addressed what the original fight was all about - that finished the day brian mac delivered the resignations - make no mistake or be under any misapprehension about that.
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Kaptain M, it’s been said before on this thread, but I’ll say it again – I believe you’re making a mistake in allowing yourself to be diverted by the likes of CitizenXX into endless debates about pre and post 89 pilot cost bases. I think it’s pretty well accepted by all that any half way decent accountant (is that an oxymoron?) can arrange the books so that the bottom line comes up with whatever result he wants it to read – look at Enron and all the other recent scandals in the US to prove my point.
But that’s an aside. What really led me to posting today was the recent plethora of posts from CitizenXX. (A quick question, CitizenXX. You say you were with AN until its demise, but your address says you hail from ‘SE Asia’. However, I seem to remember that, buried somewhere in your many posts, were comments about your imminent employment with Singapore Airlines ‘but only if they allow you to take up an Australia basing’. You’ve got me confused, C.)
On to my reason for posting: I’ve always been a bit of a film buff, and one thing I saw in quite a few of the old black and white Brit ‘war-ies’ made back in the 50’s that quite mystified me at the time was the recurring theme of what happened in France in 1940 when the Germans invaded. It was the way some (quite a few, actually) Frenchmen appeared to throw in their lot with the invaders and turn against their erstwhile allies and countrymen who continued to resist the invader “when it was obvious the fight was lost and further resistance useless”.
But now, thanks to CitizenXX and a few like-minded posters here on Pprune, the mystery’s been solved for me. Those [/i]pragmatic[/i] Frenchmen were simply “being realistic” (and how many other quotes could I draw from the posts of CitizenXX and his like on this very thread).
It’s also interesting to see how many of these “realists” became instant members of the pro-Allied Resistance in August 1944, when that became the “realistic” course (or cause) to follow. The French had a word for such people. It’s a bit longer than the one we use to describe the 1989 crop, but just as descriptive. The Norwegians had another name for their lot, and that too, has been incorporated into everyday language as a term of utter opprobrium.
It’s sad to have so clearly proven to us by the likes of CitizenXX that, had the Japanese taken over Australia 60 years ago, there would have been no shortage of “realists” among our population either.
But that’s an aside. What really led me to posting today was the recent plethora of posts from CitizenXX. (A quick question, CitizenXX. You say you were with AN until its demise, but your address says you hail from ‘SE Asia’. However, I seem to remember that, buried somewhere in your many posts, were comments about your imminent employment with Singapore Airlines ‘but only if they allow you to take up an Australia basing’. You’ve got me confused, C.)
On to my reason for posting: I’ve always been a bit of a film buff, and one thing I saw in quite a few of the old black and white Brit ‘war-ies’ made back in the 50’s that quite mystified me at the time was the recurring theme of what happened in France in 1940 when the Germans invaded. It was the way some (quite a few, actually) Frenchmen appeared to throw in their lot with the invaders and turn against their erstwhile allies and countrymen who continued to resist the invader “when it was obvious the fight was lost and further resistance useless”.
But now, thanks to CitizenXX and a few like-minded posters here on Pprune, the mystery’s been solved for me. Those [/i]pragmatic[/i] Frenchmen were simply “being realistic” (and how many other quotes could I draw from the posts of CitizenXX and his like on this very thread).
It’s also interesting to see how many of these “realists” became instant members of the pro-Allied Resistance in August 1944, when that became the “realistic” course (or cause) to follow. The French had a word for such people. It’s a bit longer than the one we use to describe the 1989 crop, but just as descriptive. The Norwegians had another name for their lot, and that too, has been incorporated into everyday language as a term of utter opprobrium.
It’s sad to have so clearly proven to us by the likes of CitizenXX that, had the Japanese taken over Australia 60 years ago, there would have been no shortage of “realists” among our population either.
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Please allow thread to continue
A. To outsiders, who know nothing other than what was in the press, this is a fascinating insight.
B. Obviously the various protagonists have a lot on their minds about this, even so long down the track, and the wounds are re-opened everytime someone goes bust/starts up/hires somebody. This airing must be therapeutic.
C. 50% of the threads end up on this subject anyway.
B. Obviously the various protagonists have a lot on their minds about this, even so long down the track, and the wounds are re-opened everytime someone goes bust/starts up/hires somebody. This airing must be therapeutic.
C. 50% of the threads end up on this subject anyway.
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Kap M,
Crapulence!
I turned up some old Tax Certificates as you suggested. So here are some facts based on B767.
Although some pre 89ers claimed $130000
my Jun 89 Tax Cert Income was $126000
Jun 90...............Less than above so not relevant.
Jun 91...............$157211
Jun 92...............$163663
Jun 93................$182432
Jun 94................$186760
Later records are held at my Tax Agent's office so they are not immediately to hand.
Now if you look at 89 versus 90 $157211 is 24.7% more than the 89 figure and certainly not twice or anywhere near the $385000 to $420000 you quoted earlier. Of course that is not the maximum it was possible to achieve.
Base Pay 55hr/mth 660hr/year was at $183 per hr which works out at $120780 per year. HOWEVER the max achievable if max hours were flown could be greater. For example if a pilot flew 900 hours (works out at 85hr42min/mth) and then had 6 weeks leave he could collect leave pay at his average preceeding. So it was possible to gross $188288, still well short of your erroneous figures. By the way your accountant informant could be in deep trouble if his indiscretion should be discovered. His figure may have included investment income other than flight pay.
Now I am long since departed from AN but in the interest of giving you as much information as I have to hand it is possible to estimate the Base Pay from the 10% super paid at Base Rate.
For 1995/6 it was $1239.80 per month so if we multiply that by 120 we get Base Pay of $148776 for that year.
Absolutely certain you will be able to misinterpret these to your complete satisfaction.
Crapulence!
I turned up some old Tax Certificates as you suggested. So here are some facts based on B767.
Although some pre 89ers claimed $130000
my Jun 89 Tax Cert Income was $126000
Jun 90...............Less than above so not relevant.
Jun 91...............$157211
Jun 92...............$163663
Jun 93................$182432
Jun 94................$186760
Later records are held at my Tax Agent's office so they are not immediately to hand.
Now if you look at 89 versus 90 $157211 is 24.7% more than the 89 figure and certainly not twice or anywhere near the $385000 to $420000 you quoted earlier. Of course that is not the maximum it was possible to achieve.
Base Pay 55hr/mth 660hr/year was at $183 per hr which works out at $120780 per year. HOWEVER the max achievable if max hours were flown could be greater. For example if a pilot flew 900 hours (works out at 85hr42min/mth) and then had 6 weeks leave he could collect leave pay at his average preceeding. So it was possible to gross $188288, still well short of your erroneous figures. By the way your accountant informant could be in deep trouble if his indiscretion should be discovered. His figure may have included investment income other than flight pay.
Now I am long since departed from AN but in the interest of giving you as much information as I have to hand it is possible to estimate the Base Pay from the 10% super paid at Base Rate.
For 1995/6 it was $1239.80 per month so if we multiply that by 120 we get Base Pay of $148776 for that year.
Absolutely certain you will be able to misinterpret these to your complete satisfaction.
Last edited by Flat Side Up; 26th Sep 2002 at 23:26.
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Well, Isn't Wiley a wiley old character? And perhaps not so old! I had noticed also on the profile of Cxx that he hailed from SE Asia and was "retired".
I had planned to suggest tonight that perhaps a dose of the old " Amos flea powder " might be appropriate but I'm inclined to think that penicillin might be more in order!
...and having just read scabby FSUs latest offering of diatribe I'm inclined to say "QED" Kaptin M! (I wonder if scabby knows what that means? I know TT2 does!)
I had planned to suggest tonight that perhaps a dose of the old " Amos flea powder " might be appropriate but I'm inclined to think that penicillin might be more in order!
...and having just read scabby FSUs latest offering of diatribe I'm inclined to say "QED" Kaptin M! (I wonder if scabby knows what that means? I know TT2 does!)
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FSU - don't bother trying to explain pay rates. that was never the issue - just another furfee to try and divert the fact that the AFAP stuffed it up.it has all been explained very simply - the AFAP never really anticipated the forces (dirty, low down and despicable) that they would face in the field of battle. when it turned to $H!t, they panicked and went against SOP industrial tactics.they never re-grouped and were defeated shortly after the 24th August 1989.very sad for all concerned, but life goes on - it has to!
No hard feelings TT2, Amos and KM - like the AFAP, you did your best.
No hard feelings TT2, Amos and KM - like the AFAP, you did your best.