To those of our number capable of logical thought, and I do not include TTT, KaptinM, Amos 2, Spade, greybeard, etc in that group, you will never convince the likes of those posters of any merit in any argument with which they take issue. It is of no consequence that your argument is logical, e.g., they have had it demonstrated many, many times that the cost for pilots in the post 89 AN was much less than prior to 89, but they just can't, or most likely won't, grasp the simple principle of productivity versus bulk $$.
They remind me of early primary school, and it's a wonder to me that one of them at some time hasn't spoken the line 'My Dad is better than your Dad', because they are just not prepared to be convinced. Their versions of the events simply do not accord with the facts. They twist whatever is put before them into a pathetic counter 'argument' so thin that it could be disproved by an intellectually impaired pre-schooler.
As for the 'big lie', I believe the only big lies were told by the AFAP heirarchy; e.g., 'the resignations won't be used unless writs are issued.' They were submitted the following morning without writs being issued. 'There are no foreign pilots in the country working for the airlines.' There were 50, and they were recruited prior to August ??, proof positive that the airines' managements knew of this 'brilliant' tactic long before it was played out with such bravado, thereby finishing the careers of about 800 pilots without their consent. I could go on, and on, and on, but to what purpose. Bringing these foreign pilots to the country, and the enormous cost of failing, gave the companies the resolve to continue down the path they chose.
Another point is that seldom does a group of employees, and a group the size of this one, take on town hall and even hope to win, let alone win. I despise Hawke as well, but he was never going to lose.
What you guys must realize is this: sooner or later, and it appears that is much later for many of you, you must accept responsibility for past events. You chose a course of action that even the sheep farmers from Tassie termed 'put our futures in the hands of people who weren't up to the task.' That says it all. If you then continued to follow them down that path, then it is your problem, not the problem of anyone else. You attempt to make it so, but it is not, nor ever will be.
These malcontents just gloss over facts that are put before them, failing to respond, and continuing with the same old hackneyed rhetoric, attacking the individual, but seldom the points of discussion. Worthy of note is that their numbers are few!
The tragic name calling cannot pass without comment. I put this down, as any person capable of rational thought would do, to a lack of maturity, i.e., they are very immature individuals, and I wonder what a member of the public would think if he/she knew he was in an aircraft being captained by somebody so incapable of, for reasons of immaturity, rational behaviour. It is a matter for serious concern.
Just accept that you made a decision with which you are now having difficulty living, do some serious self analysis, make a conscious decision to cause yourself less grief by modifying that behaviour, and get on with your lives.
Arctaurus and Truth Seeker, your simple points (and I say that not in any derogatory manner) sum up the entire situation, and have been made in these forums hundreds, if not thousands, of times in the past, but it does not suit the 'boys' to simplify the situation to these points. It is that simple, however; resign, no job, no longer a dispute, no bargaining power. End of story. Everything else is incidental, if not irrelevant, to the discussion.
Last edited by CitizenXX; 28th Sep 2002 at 05:12.