Virgin pilots
To paraphrase a famous quote - “The greatest trick management ever pulled was to convince pilots they couldn’t afford their salary demands.”
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EBA’s are not a trade session, you don’t have to give something up in exchange for something supposedly better. It’s all about building on what you have. Unions do what the the pilots want not the other way around, that’s what we pay them to do. Administration and Covid are over, ancient history, Bains making money at our expense. Stop believing in their slight of hand shell and pea game.
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Thread Starter
Well PD em was not unsupported or unsurprising. I understand and agree with it as would most VA pilots.
That cannot be said for VA mangers unfortunately , as they have little or no knowledge of what we as Pilots actually do. Why, because they never come to the aircraft to find out. How do I know , 1. I have spoken to many of them and 2. I never see them at the aircraft.
I do not blame them,, this culture is a product of two things, one most have never run their own business and two it’s they way our boss runs it.
And that person has the right to do so , but is it good business, I say no.
How to fix it.
Casa needs to change the totally unrealistic conditions that aircrew can both operate to and operate under., ie hrs and conditions.
Short of a change in our leadership, which could be good or bad the Unions need to step up and do their job which they haven’t for so long now. The job their members pay a lot for. I know that most Pilots are ONLY in the union because of the Loss of Licence.
Personally I believe the Avation industry in general needs a Royal Commission., for so many at home and wider reasons.
I was once told by a base manger not to complain as it will upset the new younger pilots, hell with out people like PD they are ******.
That cannot be said for VA mangers unfortunately , as they have little or no knowledge of what we as Pilots actually do. Why, because they never come to the aircraft to find out. How do I know , 1. I have spoken to many of them and 2. I never see them at the aircraft.
I do not blame them,, this culture is a product of two things, one most have never run their own business and two it’s they way our boss runs it.
And that person has the right to do so , but is it good business, I say no.
How to fix it.
Casa needs to change the totally unrealistic conditions that aircrew can both operate to and operate under., ie hrs and conditions.
Short of a change in our leadership, which could be good or bad the Unions need to step up and do their job which they haven’t for so long now. The job their members pay a lot for. I know that most Pilots are ONLY in the union because of the Loss of Licence.
Personally I believe the Avation industry in general needs a Royal Commission., for so many at home and wider reasons.
I was once told by a base manger not to complain as it will upset the new younger pilots, hell with out people like PD they are ******.
Last edited by farrari; 17th Feb 2024 at 05:21.
Didn’t see your email Mr Wise from the current inflow of pilots voicing their opinions on the company email.
Prefer this forum as a more effective tool to communicate to managers ?
Prefer this forum as a more effective tool to communicate to managers ?
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Thread Starter
Gamma69 , you have me at a disadvantage you know my name but all I know about u is your application for Bonza, I have sent u an invitation to call me , would like the opportunity to talk. Hopefully you understand.
Last edited by farrari; 17th Feb 2024 at 11:11.
Chris,
As someone who isn’t a member of a union, you’re extremely critical of those that volunteer their time.
Given what you’re advocating for in your persistent ranting, and the fact that you are not a member of a union, this means you can’t take part in any industrial action if and when the time comes to it. You’re asking everyone else to do the hard yards whilst you just sit from the sidelines throwing rocks.
The way industrial relations are structured in this country - you have to be a member of a union for your voice to count. Enough is enough - either put up, or shut up.
As someone who isn’t a member of a union, you’re extremely critical of those that volunteer their time.
Given what you’re advocating for in your persistent ranting, and the fact that you are not a member of a union, this means you can’t take part in any industrial action if and when the time comes to it. You’re asking everyone else to do the hard yards whilst you just sit from the sidelines throwing rocks.
The way industrial relations are structured in this country - you have to be a member of a union for your voice to count. Enough is enough - either put up, or shut up.
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Thread Starter
H eye, (M) I do know who u are. As u know last year I called you to talk about VA issues but you didn’t want to yet you continue here to speak at me and to re post the caricature you so graciously attend is me.
And just for the record , i was the one who first approached Deana and Pat Larkins at the AFAP some 13 yrs ago to get an EBA for the Pilots on the 777. All we had was a piece of paper for a contract and guys were getting unhappy. Tim Hoskins to his credit then came on board working with me and others and got a reasonable deal for us.
And yes I am in a union. I have been in a Union LONGER than your age Mate.
Over my 15 and a half yrs at Virgin I have spoken to every one from Board members to countless mangers , all levels of people in VA and yes PD recently. And I continue to do so .
Hopeful when we next meet I can have that conversation please, and I can elaborate on this and such.
And just for the record , i was the one who first approached Deana and Pat Larkins at the AFAP some 13 yrs ago to get an EBA for the Pilots on the 777. All we had was a piece of paper for a contract and guys were getting unhappy. Tim Hoskins to his credit then came on board working with me and others and got a reasonable deal for us.
And yes I am in a union. I have been in a Union LONGER than your age Mate.
Over my 15 and a half yrs at Virgin I have spoken to every one from Board members to countless mangers , all levels of people in VA and yes PD recently. And I continue to do so .
Hopeful when we next meet I can have that conversation please, and I can elaborate on this and such.
Last edited by farrari; 18th Feb 2024 at 04:39.
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And they will do what Bain tells them to do. I think this will be one heck of a fight, NAA will pale in comparison to what I think will play out here. And so it should. Go hard.
Last edited by nomess; 5th Mar 2024 at 00:00.
Is anyone else wondering when our pyramid scheme economy is going to implode. When I bought my first house it was $52000 a new car was $7000, these were the most expensive items you would ever buy. It was just 40 years ago and I earned $30000pa
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1983- average Australian salary $17,472
- average Australian house $64,039
- 727 capt Ansett salary $77,000
- base salaries for Australian chief executives ranged from low of $16,000 in clothing and footwear’s industry to high of $125,000 in metal engineering and car manufacturing industries.
Is a short haul captains salary still 450% of the average salary? I haven’t got time to work it out but it would be interesting.
- average Australian house $64,039
- 727 capt Ansett salary $77,000
- base salaries for Australian chief executives ranged from low of $16,000 in clothing and footwear’s industry to high of $125,000 in metal engineering and car manufacturing industries.
Is a short haul captains salary still 450% of the average salary? I haven’t got time to work it out but it would be interesting.
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Comedy gold.... The naivety of this is truly astonishing.
The unions over the years have really convinced their members just how worthless they are. And they paid good money for this.
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Slugga,
So true.
And I see $ and MCG figures talked about in the ‘ Teams’ from both sides. 69 79 hrs **** me really.
Christ we are flying airplanes here. 60 hrs for a fair wage is it. And that’s a lot. People in Teams are expressing their genuine frustration and desire for change, but no one at VA management can make that change, it’s not A it’s J.
Any one short of 350k for a Capt with a MCG of 6O hrs and Fo at 66 % of this is mug and sorry just plain dumb. And whilst I do not accept Airline Pilots should have their Salaries based on performance or productivity ,6O hrs is very high and therefore a very good offer to VA.
If u want to work more than 60 hrs do so on OT. That’s fine, it’s your life. But u won’t make 70 ,!
The union as Slugga has said , for some 50 yrs sold u short don’t follow them.
Teams is like politicians all talk no action, ‘ A ‘ can’t not make or change its only from J ,and she has demonstrated over the past years that’s not her mamtra. Which is fine , it’s her business.
Thats where the union is supposed to be and add value to its members, has it !,,, NO.
The distress and frustration that VA higher management causes to not just Pilots but most employees is a disgrace, Union where are u .
The union is asleep at the wheel. ******* useless.
The duty / FLT hrs. we do in a 737 are insane. Mr Unions do your job. Listen to your members and non members. Spend some money,! Hire professional negotiators.
So true.
And I see $ and MCG figures talked about in the ‘ Teams’ from both sides. 69 79 hrs **** me really.
Christ we are flying airplanes here. 60 hrs for a fair wage is it. And that’s a lot. People in Teams are expressing their genuine frustration and desire for change, but no one at VA management can make that change, it’s not A it’s J.
Any one short of 350k for a Capt with a MCG of 6O hrs and Fo at 66 % of this is mug and sorry just plain dumb. And whilst I do not accept Airline Pilots should have their Salaries based on performance or productivity ,6O hrs is very high and therefore a very good offer to VA.
If u want to work more than 60 hrs do so on OT. That’s fine, it’s your life. But u won’t make 70 ,!
The union as Slugga has said , for some 50 yrs sold u short don’t follow them.
Teams is like politicians all talk no action, ‘ A ‘ can’t not make or change its only from J ,and she has demonstrated over the past years that’s not her mamtra. Which is fine , it’s her business.
Thats where the union is supposed to be and add value to its members, has it !,,, NO.
The distress and frustration that VA higher management causes to not just Pilots but most employees is a disgrace, Union where are u .
The union is asleep at the wheel. ******* useless.
The duty / FLT hrs. we do in a 737 are insane. Mr Unions do your job. Listen to your members and non members. Spend some money,! Hire professional negotiators.
Last edited by farrari; 6th Mar 2024 at 07:12.
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it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that this isn’t sustainable. The question is when, not if.
Like your numbers Chris - they do look appropriate based on historical data. It would be nice if the Unions set that bar.
As for references to your mates at Newington - it looses a bit of credibility on this forum - they’re ranked a very low 142 in Sydney, and probably have ethics no better than Cranbrook!.
As for references to your mates at Newington - it looses a bit of credibility on this forum - they’re ranked a very low 142 in Sydney, and probably have ethics no better than Cranbrook!.
Thread Starter
Vietnam came along yet we won the ‘ Head of the river’ .
In 1971 if u worked for TAA , Ansett or Qantas u had a well paid respectable job, with a ‘ Wounderfull lifestyle, unlike today.
There is no reason why that shouldn’t be so today. The obstacle is weak Pilot unions, unions not doing the job they are paid to do.
Lets see what expires this year , I say zip the outcome will be pathetic yet again.
In 1971 if u worked for TAA , Ansett or Qantas u had a well paid respectable job, with a ‘ Wounderfull lifestyle, unlike today.
There is no reason why that shouldn’t be so today. The obstacle is weak Pilot unions, unions not doing the job they are paid to do.
Lets see what expires this year , I say zip the outcome will be pathetic yet again.
Then Virgin Blue came along, pilots started paying for their endorsements and angry 89ers taking training jobs, for less than incumbent FO’s were being paid at the majors.
There have been plenty of opportunities to invest well since 2000 and survive the downturns. Hedging in the inevitable fight against inflation that eats away wage buying power. QF guys seem to have done it?
So get cracking! Not just investing for retirement but to be Bank of Mum and Dad for your kids.
Last edited by Gnadenburg; 6th Mar 2024 at 17:09.
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Actually, 30 years later in 2000, you still had a wonderful lifestyle and good pay in Ansett and Qantas.
Then Virgin Blue came along, pilots started paying for their endorsements and angry 89ers taking training jobs, for less than incumbent FO’s were being paid at the majors.
There have been plenty of opportunities to invest well since 2000 and survive the downturns. Hedging in the inevitable fight against inflation that eats away wage buying power. QF guys seem to have done it?
So get cracking! Not just investing for retirement but to be Bank of Mum and Dad for your kids.
Then Virgin Blue came along, pilots started paying for their endorsements and angry 89ers taking training jobs, for less than incumbent FO’s were being paid at the majors.
There have been plenty of opportunities to invest well since 2000 and survive the downturns. Hedging in the inevitable fight against inflation that eats away wage buying power. QF guys seem to have done it?
So get cracking! Not just investing for retirement but to be Bank of Mum and Dad for your kids.
True story! And one that I have always found rather ironic, given JR’s role in “the year thou shalt not mention”.