Virgin pilots
What I find interesting is the level of personal attack that occurs when a fellow pilot airs a grievance about a company that reduced pay and conditions by nearly 20%, failed to implement a trip swap system and execs will be walking away with tens of millions between them.
Yet we infight for the privilege of working harder for less. Each to their own. Sad really.
Yet we infight for the privilege of working harder for less. Each to their own. Sad really.
So when you think it's pilots apparently arguing against improvements in T&Cs, have a long think about whether they are actually pilots, and really what angle is the poster coming from.
The following 2 users liked this post by 43Inches:
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Earth
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is Bain sampling the pilot group on what price they can attach to a day off payment by increasing the minimum guarantee according to commercial demand? Certainly 5hrs minimum guarantee is woefully inadequate for the role. Likewise buying back employee days off during roster build looks to be a signal of where Bain want to go.
Thread Starter
Interesting I just flew staff travel on Saturday night with Phillipines Airlines from Manila to Sydney.
My economy seat was middle row 56 F , Hell . The ground staff there we lovely but as they were contractors unable to do an upgrade.
At the holding area I saw the. Captain and crew, I mentioned to him that I was a Pilot for VA holding a seat in Economy and any help to get into either PE or B class would be much appreciated. It’s an 8 hr night flight.
On boarding the CC , said come this way past PE to B class.
The FM came to my seat and went out of his way to warmly welcome me and provide me with any thing he could do to make my flight enjoyable. He informed me that the Capt would come an see me after dinner, which he did.
Does that “ respect “ for Pilots sound like VA. Does that ability for the VA Capt to look after not only our own but other Airline crew sound like VA.
We all know the answer.
Money and conditions are really important, at VA they are pathetic.
Respect for what we do is also important, Alex just put out an EM saying this.
Time VA for , if u talk the talk WALK IT.
Others do.
My economy seat was middle row 56 F , Hell . The ground staff there we lovely but as they were contractors unable to do an upgrade.
At the holding area I saw the. Captain and crew, I mentioned to him that I was a Pilot for VA holding a seat in Economy and any help to get into either PE or B class would be much appreciated. It’s an 8 hr night flight.
On boarding the CC , said come this way past PE to B class.
The FM came to my seat and went out of his way to warmly welcome me and provide me with any thing he could do to make my flight enjoyable. He informed me that the Capt would come an see me after dinner, which he did.
Does that “ respect “ for Pilots sound like VA. Does that ability for the VA Capt to look after not only our own but other Airline crew sound like VA.
We all know the answer.
Money and conditions are really important, at VA they are pathetic.
Respect for what we do is also important, Alex just put out an EM saying this.
Time VA for , if u talk the talk WALK IT.
Others do.
Interesting post Ferrari, are you sure the ground staff in Manila for the national airline are outsourced?
You reference money and conditions are really important. Do you know what crew at Philippine airlines get paid? Terms and conditions and morale?
Not having a personal dig at you in anyway but you come across a little condescending. Not many airlines in the world that I’ve flown be it staff travel when I was crew or normal SLF do upgrades these days. I remember once asking on UA and they gave me PE and a row but no chance getting that last empty J! Now QF, if you are an interline passenger you think any chance? Hard enough I hear as staff travel.
I do agree that we should look after each other but do check facts first. Yes as a Capt I’d always look after / say g’day to any paxing crew from any airline if I knew they were on board. Do you do this on your VA flights?
The only country I hear and have not witnessed that do it right for staff is the good ole US of A.
Well done on the upgrade, by the way have you looked at what a confirmed business class Philippine airlines fare costs? Maybe next time save yourself the angst and book a confirmed J!!!
You reference money and conditions are really important. Do you know what crew at Philippine airlines get paid? Terms and conditions and morale?
Not having a personal dig at you in anyway but you come across a little condescending. Not many airlines in the world that I’ve flown be it staff travel when I was crew or normal SLF do upgrades these days. I remember once asking on UA and they gave me PE and a row but no chance getting that last empty J! Now QF, if you are an interline passenger you think any chance? Hard enough I hear as staff travel.
I do agree that we should look after each other but do check facts first. Yes as a Capt I’d always look after / say g’day to any paxing crew from any airline if I knew they were on board. Do you do this on your VA flights?
The only country I hear and have not witnessed that do it right for staff is the good ole US of A.
Well done on the upgrade, by the way have you looked at what a confirmed business class Philippine airlines fare costs? Maybe next time save yourself the angst and book a confirmed J!!!
The following users liked this post:
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: In a burrow
Posts: 252
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Virgin were always going to get enough volunteers to crew the Haneda 5 day trips and they knew it. They didn’t need to offer any incentives.
Interesting I just flew staff travel on Saturday night with Phillipines Airlines from Manila to Sydney.
My economy seat was middle row 56 F , Hell . The ground staff there we lovely but as they were contractors unable to do an upgrade.
At the holding area I saw the. Captain and crew, I mentioned to him that I was a Pilot for VA holding a seat in Economy and any help to get into either PE or B class would be much appreciated. It’s an 8 hr night flight.
On boarding the CC , said come this way past PE to B class.
The FM came to my seat and went out of his way to warmly welcome me and provide me with any thing he could do to make my flight enjoyable. He informed me that the Capt would come an see me after dinner, which he did.
Does that “ respect “ for Pilots sound like VA. Does that ability for the VA Capt to look after not only our own but other Airline crew sound like VA.
We all know the answer.
Money and conditions are really important, at VA they are pathetic.
Respect for what we do is also important, Alex just put out an EM saying this.
Time VA for , if u talk the talk WALK IT.
Others do.
My economy seat was middle row 56 F , Hell . The ground staff there we lovely but as they were contractors unable to do an upgrade.
At the holding area I saw the. Captain and crew, I mentioned to him that I was a Pilot for VA holding a seat in Economy and any help to get into either PE or B class would be much appreciated. It’s an 8 hr night flight.
On boarding the CC , said come this way past PE to B class.
The FM came to my seat and went out of his way to warmly welcome me and provide me with any thing he could do to make my flight enjoyable. He informed me that the Capt would come an see me after dinner, which he did.
Does that “ respect “ for Pilots sound like VA. Does that ability for the VA Capt to look after not only our own but other Airline crew sound like VA.
We all know the answer.
Money and conditions are really important, at VA they are pathetic.
Respect for what we do is also important, Alex just put out an EM saying this.
Time VA for , if u talk the talk WALK IT.
Others do.
Interesting I just flew staff travel on Saturday night with Phillipines Airlines from Manila to Sydney.
My economy seat was middle row 56 F , Hell . The ground staff there we lovely but as they were contractors unable to do an upgrade.
At the holding area I saw the. Captain and crew, I mentioned to him that I was a Pilot for VA holding a seat in Economy and any help to get into either PE or B class would be much appreciated. It’s an 8 hr night flight.
On boarding the CC , said come this way past PE to B class.
The FM came to my seat and went out of his way to warmly welcome me and provide me with any thing he could do to make my flight enjoyable. He informed me that the Capt would come an see me after dinner, which he did.
Does that “ respect “ for Pilots sound like VA. Does that ability for the VA Capt to look after not only our own but other Airline crew sound like VA.
We all know the answer.
Money and conditions are really important, at VA they are pathetic.
Respect for what we do is also important, Alex just put out an EM saying this.
Time VA for , if u talk the talk WALK IT.
Others do.
My economy seat was middle row 56 F , Hell . The ground staff there we lovely but as they were contractors unable to do an upgrade.
At the holding area I saw the. Captain and crew, I mentioned to him that I was a Pilot for VA holding a seat in Economy and any help to get into either PE or B class would be much appreciated. It’s an 8 hr night flight.
On boarding the CC , said come this way past PE to B class.
The FM came to my seat and went out of his way to warmly welcome me and provide me with any thing he could do to make my flight enjoyable. He informed me that the Capt would come an see me after dinner, which he did.
Does that “ respect “ for Pilots sound like VA. Does that ability for the VA Capt to look after not only our own but other Airline crew sound like VA.
We all know the answer.
Money and conditions are really important, at VA they are pathetic.
Respect for what we do is also important, Alex just put out an EM saying this.
Time VA for , if u talk the talk WALK IT.
Others do.
Thread Starter
Global Aviator,
I spoke at length to the check in staff , they are contractors like Swiss Port here.
And staff travel with them is only in Economy.
I don’t mean to come across as you say, l really like and respect Filipino people, my wife is one and her sister and sisters husband Pilots for Cebu.
I spoke at length to the check in staff , they are contractors like Swiss Port here.
And staff travel with them is only in Economy.
I don’t mean to come across as you say, l really like and respect Filipino people, my wife is one and her sister and sisters husband Pilots for Cebu.
Last edited by farrari; 1st Aug 2023 at 05:12.
Tagging onto Kenny’s post; the North American mob I work for actually have it in the FOM that the CA can upgrade jumpseaters himself - a hallmark of days that have largely passed.
An interesting note, on my last trip to Oz I flew VA domestic and was pretty late for checkin. Staff couldn’t have been more helpful, sending me through and gate checking my bag.
Kinda made me miss some of the few good things left of Aussie culture and the old VA.
Join Date: Aug 2021
Location: Earth
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Think long term, but act now.
In a few years time, Bain, will be gone.
In a few years time, the current Exec team, will be gone, circa tens of millions each
In a few years time, you will still be there.
Just remind yourself, the consequences of pleasing your PE owner are grave for your long term conditions. You have contributed your bit to saving the company when times have been tough, you have taken your haircut, just think twice when the next deal comes around, make sure you are lining your pockets, not those who-soon-to-be-departed.
I can see many people on this site later this decade ‘I wish we fought harder for a decent deal back then’, meanwhile the next owner has arrived and is already fiddling and tinkering around in the hallways.
In a few years time, Bain, will be gone.
In a few years time, the current Exec team, will be gone, circa tens of millions each
In a few years time, you will still be there.
Just remind yourself, the consequences of pleasing your PE owner are grave for your long term conditions. You have contributed your bit to saving the company when times have been tough, you have taken your haircut, just think twice when the next deal comes around, make sure you are lining your pockets, not those who-soon-to-be-departed.
I can see many people on this site later this decade ‘I wish we fought harder for a decent deal back then’, meanwhile the next owner has arrived and is already fiddling and tinkering around in the hallways.
Last edited by PoppaJo; 2nd Aug 2023 at 13:24.
Nobody says "I feel sorry for management, if we hadn't fought so hard for our EA, they'd be getting bigger bonuses."
Thread Starter
Some one asked me what I thought we should be asking for in the new EBA.
Ok here is the main things we should have as professional Airline Pilots in todays world .
And yes this is not all , but the main items.
Our base pay for 60 hrs flying per roster , back to what it was before the current EBA plus 40%
The pay above graded on years of service, from 2 to 30years . ie each year of service you receive 1 to 15 percent graded annual bonus. There always should be a reward for “ Skin in the Game”.
The maximum flying hrs before any OT 60 hrs per roster.
All duty over and above flying time paid at 75 % of the time at the hourly flight rate.
14 days per roster off
Min rest needs to be 16.5 hrs. From sign off to sign on.That one is very important for Pilots health and wellness.
A 2 or 3 year EBA with 4% annual wage increase.
Stand by, paid for actual stand by hrs or hrs of flying called out plus stand by hrs up to call out.
Firm seat for commuters.
A paid day for medicals and cost covered by company.
Some thing more for those with caring responsibilities.
And protections for Sydney pilots re the new Airport at Badgeerys Creek.
Given the current union is totally inept and lost the reality of what Airline pilots should be paid and what conditions they should work under and many VA pilots have demonstrated their inability to stand up to the company, I expect 3% and one less day per roster is the offer.
The other mob may make some noise but they represent truck drivers, who themselves work bloody hard for their wages. I cannot see unfortunately any gain there.
Ok here is the main things we should have as professional Airline Pilots in todays world .
And yes this is not all , but the main items.
Our base pay for 60 hrs flying per roster , back to what it was before the current EBA plus 40%
The pay above graded on years of service, from 2 to 30years . ie each year of service you receive 1 to 15 percent graded annual bonus. There always should be a reward for “ Skin in the Game”.
The maximum flying hrs before any OT 60 hrs per roster.
All duty over and above flying time paid at 75 % of the time at the hourly flight rate.
14 days per roster off
Min rest needs to be 16.5 hrs. From sign off to sign on.That one is very important for Pilots health and wellness.
A 2 or 3 year EBA with 4% annual wage increase.
Stand by, paid for actual stand by hrs or hrs of flying called out plus stand by hrs up to call out.
Firm seat for commuters.
A paid day for medicals and cost covered by company.
Some thing more for those with caring responsibilities.
And protections for Sydney pilots re the new Airport at Badgeerys Creek.
Given the current union is totally inept and lost the reality of what Airline pilots should be paid and what conditions they should work under and many VA pilots have demonstrated their inability to stand up to the company, I expect 3% and one less day per roster is the offer.
The other mob may make some noise but they represent truck drivers, who themselves work bloody hard for their wages. I cannot see unfortunately any gain there.
Last edited by farrari; 12th Sep 2023 at 05:44.
“Our base pay for 60 hrs flying per roster , back to what it was before the current EBA plus 40%”
soryy, just confirming you mean 2018 EA base + 40%, MCG of 60?
so approx $330k base @ 60hrs MCG ?
soryy, just confirming you mean 2018 EA base + 40%, MCG of 60?
so approx $330k base @ 60hrs MCG ?
Some one asked me what I thought we should be asking for in the new EBA.
Ok here is the main things we should have as professional Airline Pilots in todays world .
And yes this is not all , but the main items.
Our base pay for 60 hrs flying per roster , back to what it was before the current EBA plus 40%
The pay above graded on years of service, from 2 to 30years . ie each year of service you receive 1 to 15 percent graded annual bonus. There always should be a reward for “ Skin the Game”.
The maximum flying hrs before any OT 60 hrs per roster.
All duty over and above flying time paid at 75 % of the time at the hourly flight rate.
13 days per roster off
A 2 or 3 year EBA with 4% annual wage increase.
Stand by, paid for actual stand by hrs or hrs of flying called out plus stand by hrs up to call out.
Firm seat for commuters.
A paid day for medicals and cost covered by company.
Some thing more for those with caring responsibilities.
And protections for Sydney pilots re the new Airport at Badgeerys Creek.
Given the current union is totally inept and lost the reality of what Airline pilots should be paid and what conditions they should work under and many VA pilots have demonstrated their inability to stand up to the company, I expect 3% and one less day per roster is the offer.
The other mob may make some noise but they represent truck drivers, who themselves work bloody hard for their wages. I cannot see unfortunately any gain there.
Ok here is the main things we should have as professional Airline Pilots in todays world .
And yes this is not all , but the main items.
Our base pay for 60 hrs flying per roster , back to what it was before the current EBA plus 40%
The pay above graded on years of service, from 2 to 30years . ie each year of service you receive 1 to 15 percent graded annual bonus. There always should be a reward for “ Skin the Game”.
The maximum flying hrs before any OT 60 hrs per roster.
All duty over and above flying time paid at 75 % of the time at the hourly flight rate.
13 days per roster off
A 2 or 3 year EBA with 4% annual wage increase.
Stand by, paid for actual stand by hrs or hrs of flying called out plus stand by hrs up to call out.
Firm seat for commuters.
A paid day for medicals and cost covered by company.
Some thing more for those with caring responsibilities.
And protections for Sydney pilots re the new Airport at Badgeerys Creek.
Given the current union is totally inept and lost the reality of what Airline pilots should be paid and what conditions they should work under and many VA pilots have demonstrated their inability to stand up to the company, I expect 3% and one less day per roster is the offer.
The other mob may make some noise but they represent truck drivers, who themselves work bloody hard for their wages. I cannot see unfortunately any gain there.
Should everyone who has an opinion about the sort of issues they'd like addressed in an EBA do as you say?
I don't think there's anything unreasonable about a union MEMBER putting up their hand and saying "I'd like you to push for some of this."
I believe the current unions DO need to do better.
