Network EBA
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 670
Likes: 466
From: Australia
Interestingly the base salary for a cleaner with ESS (the people that Network Pilots often fly to and from site) is $117K.
These are the people cleaning the marks off the toilet bowls and wiping the stains off the donga shower walls.
These are the people cleaning the marks off the toilet bowls and wiping the stains off the donga shower walls.
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 191
Likes: 255
From: Goblin Town
Do not forget the Zero Turning All Burning Inverted Space Shuttle re-entry required whenever you do a Line or Sim Check.
Suddenly 28 off in 84 (7 day blocks) @ 5% higher wage for an entry level job sounds like more of a life than 24 off in 84 (2 day blocks) - plus you'll be a Lifetime Platinum flyer with higher upgrade priority in much less (if ever) time
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 68
Likes: 17
From: Earth
I hate this mentality, by no means is flying a jet an easy job, highly specialised and us guys in Aus have to fight tooth and nail for the job in the first place with years built up flying banged up machines and managing to not blow the wings off in sometimes awful places with terrible wages. Why shouldn't we be entitled to the same as other pilots get elsewhere?
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 3,383
Likes: 532
From: Somewhere
The unfortunate reality in Australia is that there are too many pilots. Not to mention all the expats who have international jet experience. Until those things change salaries aren't going to go up. And if they do then the airlines will lobby the government to open up to international candidates. There needs to be a serious supply crunch to change the current circumstances. A proper third domestic airline in Australia may do this.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 205
Likes: 128
From: Sydney
I hate this mentality, by no means is flying a jet an easy job, highly specialised and us guys in Aus have to fight tooth and nail for the job in the first place with years built up flying banged up machines and managing to not blow the wings off in sometimes awful places with terrible wages. Why shouldn't we be entitled to the same as other pilots get elsewhere?
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 297
Likes: 46
From: The bush
Many say that as pilots we are our own worst enemy. I agree with that to a certain extent. I however believe the biggest culprit to our abysmal wages is our weak as pi$$ Unions. Our union leaders have no fight in them. Our unions need a clean out, fresh blood is needed asap, and the members needs to start pushing hard for this to happen.
Good luck with that.
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 205
Likes: 128
From: Sydney
What I can say that in the last decade I have been a union member I would have had no less than 50 interactions with them, and most of the time walked away disappointed. I got to the point that I felt like a pest. Looking back most of the issues I brought up were valid, but unfortunately the union put it in the too hard basket.
You can have the full backing of the rank and file, but without solid leadership and guidance from a strong union we are not united.
Nunc est bibendum
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,596
Likes: 37
From: Sydney, Australia
What I can say that in the last decade I have been a union member I would have had no less than 50 interactions with them, and most of the time walked away disappointed. I got to the point that I felt like a pest. Looking back most of the issues I brought up were valid, but unfortunately the union put it in the too hard basket.
You can have the full backing of the rank and file, but without solid leadership and guidance from a strong union we are not united.
The ‘union’ is all of us. It is not just the ‘leadership’ of the union. And it takes all of us to be successful.
Hopefully those who criticise have at least put their hand up at some stage to be part of the solution.
There can be a lot more said about the current industrial situation and certainly a significant pilot shortage in the USA (and the fact that the pilots actually negotiate under the Railway Labor Act of 1926) is of benefit to them. Perhaps that is best left for another day when I have a spare 3-4 hours- so likely not for a couple more years!
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 191
Likes: 255
From: Goblin Town
Exactly....and per example, the Atlas Air Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA 2021) consists of 35 Articles topping out at a total of 352 pages - slightly more than the 25 odd pages of the previous expired / outdated / vastly irrelevant Network EBA 
Last edited by RealSatoshi; 31st December 2022 at 09:41.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 670
Likes: 466
From: Australia
Last edited by aussieflyboy; 1st January 2023 at 00:04.
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 31
Likes: 6
From: Australia
international jet experience
The unfortunate reality in Australia is that there are too many pilots. Not to mention all the expats who have international jet experience. Until those things change salaries aren't going to go up. And if they do then the airlines will lobby the government to open up to international candidates. There needs to be a serious supply crunch to change the current circumstances. A proper third domestic airline in Australia may do this.
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 148
From: Weltschmerz-By-The-Sea Australia
In fact it counts against you because Qantas. But that’s another story, and would quickly be moot if the company decided it needed yet another wedge group to provide downward pressure on wages.
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 655
Likes: 4
From: On the water
Originally Posted by sandsthrudahrglass
" international jet experience " means jack and counts for nothing when trying to get a job or trying to progress with just about every airline down under. In particular the red flying rat!.
Joined: Jun 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,701
Likes: 793
From: 3rd rock from the sun
Clearly don’t know much about the topic.
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,396
Likes: 148
From: Weltschmerz-By-The-Sea Australia
Yeah, clearly. I am somewhat aware of the current hiring practices, and aware of the backgrounds of the recently hired with whom I fly. Even the rare ex CX etc ones. Ask those guys the next time if the hiring process was streamlined because of their prior jet experience.
Joined: Jun 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,701
Likes: 793
From: 3rd rock from the sun
Yeah, clearly. I am somewhat aware of the current hiring practices, and aware of the backgrounds of the recently hired with whom I fly. Even the rare ex CX etc ones. Ask those guys the next time if the hiring process was streamlined because of their prior jet experience.
Joined: Jun 2006
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 2,701
Likes: 793
From: 3rd rock from the sun
The experience levels and backgrounds of new recruits have changed throughout the years, if at one point jet experience was a negative it certainly isn’t now. As once upon a time being ex Eastern or Sunnies Dash 8 was almost an automatic rejection, now that’s not the case.
With about 5x as many applicants as recruits needed a lot of pilots are going to get rejection letters. Now if by chance one pilot and their mates from a particular background unfortunately all get rejection letters it may seem there’s an organised conspiracy to not recruit them, that simply isn’t the case. It’s usually just co-incidence.
Mainline, like any carrier, just want to recruit people who they know are likely to pass training and not incur further costs there or at any point in the future.
With about 5x as many applicants as recruits needed a lot of pilots are going to get rejection letters. Now if by chance one pilot and their mates from a particular background unfortunately all get rejection letters it may seem there’s an organised conspiracy to not recruit them, that simply isn’t the case. It’s usually just co-incidence.
Mainline, like any carrier, just want to recruit people who they know are likely to pass training and not incur further costs there or at any point in the future.