Skirts and heels for men included in Virgin uniform overhaul

[Confusious]

Originally Posted by Stationair8

Please accept my apologies, that should be spider-person and super person.

HR would prefer spider-it I'm sure.

[Chronic Snoozer]

Originally Posted by Stationair8

Please accept my apologies, that should be spider-person and super person.

Can't use person as it has the suffix "son". Not neutral enough.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by Foxxster

Think it is covered pretty well in this.

Ahh Paul Joseph Watson, King of the Incels.

And a guy who knows nothing about aviation from this tweet:

Twitter

[PoppaJo]

I do recall Virgin (well Oz) had gender specific bathrooms. I remember flying Melbourne to Los Angeles many years ago they had it. I know because my young son back in the day used it and got a serving from the Cabin crew for using it. I went to double check and was right, ladies only sticker on the door. I didn’t check to see if they had men’s only bathrooms.

[anson harris]

Originally Posted by AnglianAV8R

Take alook at Disney and Facebook shares, plus certain main media outfits in the States for starters.

So, nobody has gone broke then?

[Pinky the pilot]

Whilst some will see the following as nitpicking (and I really don't care!) I still get slightly annoyed at the increasing practice of the use of the American term 'Bathroom' to describe a Toilet!

I have a Shower/Bath in a Bathroom. I do not take a 'slash or a dump' in a Bathroom!

[galacticosh]

Originally Posted by dr dre

I’d rather share a flight deck with someone dressed like that over one of the “upholders of traditional masculinity” on this thread who feel the need to have a whinging sook about someone dressed in a way that threatens their fragile persona.

I think you’re on to something here. I would rather share the flight deck with a man dressed in woman’s clothing than with you.

[PoppaJo]

Originally Posted by Pinky the pilot

Whilst some will see the following as nitpicking (and I really don't care!) I still get slightly annoyed at the increasing practice of the use of the American term 'Bathroom' to describe a Toilet!

I have a Shower/Bath in a Bathroom. I do not take a 'slash or a dump' in a Bathroom!

I think I’ve spent too much time stateside pinky.

I use to refer to the overhead lockers as overhead bins. Accidentally asked for cream and sugar in the coffee once, newbie crew who hadn’t been overseas said whaaaaaat lol.

[old,not bold]

Originally Posted by Beryllium Erbium

Most punters know the difference between XX and XY. And most punters understand the meaning of virtue signalling and know what a SJW is.

Yes, well, 2 out of 3. What on earth is a SJW, please?

And shouldn't that be "an SJW"?

[Eclan]

Originally Posted by Climb150

I have bigger things to worry about than what poorly paid flight attendants wear.

Like what? Can you give us an example? I'm always intrigued when people say they have bigger things to think about than the latest item which on this occasion doesn't happen to bother them.

[Climb150]

Originally Posted by Eclan

Like what? Can you give us an example? I'm always intrigued when people say they have bigger things to think about than the latest item which on this occasion doesn't happen to bother them.

I don't know maybe inflation? War in Ukraine?

If you are intrigued by this simple concept then maybe you pay more attention to world events?

[Jack D]

Originally Posted by Pinky the pilot

Whilst some will see the following as nitpicking (and I really don't care!) I still get slightly annoyed at the increasing practice of the use of the American term 'Bathroom' to describe a Toilet!

I have a Shower/Bath in a Bathroom. I do not take a 'slash or a dump' in a Bathroom!

Lavatory dear boy lavatory !

[MissChief]

So the SFO seated next to me has a beard and moustache, and is wearing a skirt with tights. And perhaps facial and eye make-up.

This will distract me, and at the same time make me feel disconcerted., This therefore becomes a serious safety issue. I have been comfortable with gender stereotypes since I was a child. I have no problems working alongside a gay or lesbian pilot, and never have. (Often I have not known about this in any event).

But this latest 'virtue-signalling' by Virgin Atlantic is not a good thing at all. Some of my friends and former colleagues have gone so far as to say that it makes them feel sick.

[Eclan]

Originally Posted by nomilk

The real problem is that this forum became a forum of old men not understanding that they are on the way out and that the world will turn without them and their opinions quite happily.

Well, no, the real problem is that the liberal left promotes tolerance and understanding and simply will not tolerate or understand anyone who doesn't agree with them. At least we old men can look at each other and know that's what we're seeing. Enjoy your future free of these old men, it's shaping up to be really f-ed up by the time you're an old man (or whatever) yourself.

[Backtrack]

Originally Posted by ANstar

VS know their market and their punters... they aren't Aussie backwater bigots.

and I guess Gerald Ratner knew his market and customers....until he gave a speech to the Institute of Directors publicly stating that his products are "total crap"

[Confusious]

Originally Posted by Backtrack

and I guess Gerald Ratner knew his market and customers....until he gave a speech to the Institute of Directors publicly stating that his products are "total crap"

Indeed, not all publicity is good publicity. Not even O'Leary who often quoted those words would go down the recent ill fated route of VA.

[Eclan]

Originally Posted by Ladloy

I don't even work for Virgin oz or atlantic. I couldn't care less about what other people are wearing. Why does it bother you?

I don't know about others but it "bothers" me because I don't like people around me who feel the need to push their individuality, their social justice awareness and dedication (whether it be dressing up in women's clothing at work or waving a Ukrainian flag), their sexuality, their outrageousness, their current fetish, their gender fluidity, their virtue (most of which in my opinion often simply shows their insecurity and need for a social crutch), their challenges to the despised norm, etc in everyone's faces while they post their updates about themselves showing off their disdain, contempt and complete intolerance for the comparatively conservative values of the other person. This sort of crap by Virgin Atlantic trying to grab attention just eggs on these misfits who aren't content to deviate from the established norms in the privacy of their own homes or social scenes and want the rest of society - the majority - to just accept them.

Originally Posted by Climb150

I have shared the cockpit with a person who has fully transitioned to female. It's really not an issue unless you are the problem.

First of all, a man can't just become a woman. He can cut things off, stitch other things up, grow this or that with hormones, etc but is no more a woman than you are the King of England. Saying he is a woman, pretending it's true and trying to force everyone else to agree is the real problem, not the person of conservative or simply logical outlook who does not accept the fallacy.

Sharing the cockpit (and I'm presuming that wasn't some kind of weird innuendo of yours) with someone whose outlook resulted in such a drastic outcome is not necessarily what I'd call ideal and makes me wonder why it isn't cause for suspension of medical certificate pending psychological assessment by the CASA medical zealots who can be counted on to jump at any other opportunity to scrutinise a pilot's medical.

I'm not saying everyone who "transitions" is a crackpot but in many cases where there's smoke there's probably some fire. If you said you occasionally contemplate suicide you'd be grounded in a heartbeat. If you say you're one of a group who we're told badly need this surgery or may succumb to the high risk of self-harm, well, that's okay and everyone else is the problem. Nope, that is simply untrue, Climb150.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by MissChief

So the SFO seated next to me has a beard and moustache, and is wearing a skirt with tights. And perhaps facial and eye make-up.

Well first off in all the searching I’ve done I can’t see that VS female pilots have skirts as a part of the uniform, so there’s little chance you’ll be sitting next to someone with a beard and a skirt. The only major I can see between the VS male and female pilot uniforms is a red scarf/tie for women vs a black neck tie for men. So in reality there’ll be little difference, and no one will be sitting next to you with a skirt and tights.

This will distract me, and at the same time make me feel disconcerted., This therefore becomes a serious safety issue.

Back some decades ago when gay pilots started to come out I’m pretty sure there would’ve been comments by existing pilots that gay pilots would’ve been a distraction, that it would become a safety issue and the exclusively hetero pilot group would prefer them to just stay in the closet. I know this because I entered aviation just at the end of the careers who had that view and they expressed it to me. But as gay pilots ‘came out’ people began to see there really wasn’t an issue, gay people were just normal people and safety issues weren’t present. It just took a bit of getting used to.

I could probably say the same for female pilots too, certainly they would’ve been accused of ‘distracting’ male pilots and causing safety issues. In fact one Australian airline was so resistant to this change they went to court and tried to legally argue that female pilots would be distracting and cause safety issues. But they (and the rest of aviation) was dragged into reality and people realised female people weren’t a safety issue.

But this latest 'virtue-signalling' by Virgin Atlantic is not a good thing at all. Some of my friends and former colleagues have gone so far as to say that it makes them feel sick.

There’s already a few trans and non gender conforming pilots already out there in the industry. I’ve noticed that the US seems to be where most of them are currently, probably just due to its size. There seems to be less in the UK/Australia? But I know of one trans pilot, by all accounts a capable pilot and nice person. Some have said their previous perceptions about trans people have changed for the better when working with them.

A lot are active on the dreaded ‘social media’ so you can attack them for being narcissists. But they all seem to be able to fly the aircraft to the required standards, and a lot have been promoted to Captain.

So maybe as time progresses and more trans pilots feel comfortable coming out then perhaps some who have reservations against them will feel less ‘sick’ just by getting to know them better?

[Eclan]

Originally Posted by Climb150

I don't know maybe inflation? War in Ukraine?

If you are intrigued by this simple concept then maybe you pay more attention to world events?

No, I understand it; I simply what wondered what sort of "bigger" issue warranted such concern but still left capacity to air your unspoken fears on a forum site like this or if it was simply an attempt at studied nonchalance.

[dr dre]

Originally Posted by Eclan

I
Sharing the cockpit (and I'm presuming that wasn't some kind of weird innuendo of yours) with someone whose outlook resulted in such a drastic outcome is not necessarily what I'd call ideal and makes me wonder why it isn't cause for suspension of medical certificate pending psychological assessment by the CASA medical zealots who can be counted on to jump at any other opportunity to scrutinise a pilot's medical.

Well the medicos at CASA and other aviation regulatory bodies have defined protocols for gender transition.

Basically they’ll be certified unless there is an existence of a confirmed psychiatric disorder, or adverse side effect from hormone therapy.

So the experts (real doctors) don’t have an issue with trans pilots unless they are suffering from issues that would affect a non-trans pilot as well.

Which is why there are a growing number of trans pilots in the industry these days.