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Skirts and heels for men included in Virgin uniform overhaul

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Skirts and heels for men included in Virgin uniform overhaul

Old 30th Sep 2022, 15:00
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Over the years I’ve wondered why Air New Zealand jet fleet recruiting posts are often relegated to the Pacific and GA pages yet we now have five pages of utter shite that should be on WWrune 🤷‍♂️
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 15:25
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Well first off in all the searching I’ve done I can’t see that VS female pilots have skirts as a part of the uniform, so there’s little chance you’ll be sitting next to someone with a beard and a skirt. The only major I can see between the VS male and female pilot uniforms is a red scarf/tie for women vs a black neck tie for men. So in reality there’ll be little difference, and no one will be sitting next to you with a skirt and tights.



Back some decades ago when gay pilots started to come out I’m pretty sure there would’ve been comments by existing pilots that gay pilots would’ve been a distraction, that it would become a safety issue and the exclusively hetero pilot group would prefer them to just stay in the closet. I know this because I entered aviation just at the end of the careers who had that view and they expressed it to me. But as gay pilots ‘came out’ people began to see there really wasn’t an issue, gay people were just normal people and safety issues weren’t present. It just took a bit of getting used to.

I could probably say the same for female pilots too, certainly they would’ve been accused of ‘distracting’ male pilots and causing safety issues. In fact one Australian airline was so resistant to this change they went to court and tried to legally argue that female pilots would be distracting and cause safety issues. But they (and the rest of aviation) was dragged into reality and people realised female people weren’t a safety issue.




There’s already a few trans and non gender conforming pilots already out there in the industry. I’ve noticed that the US seems to be where most of them are currently, probably just due to its size. There seems to be less in the UK/Australia? But I know of one trans pilot, by all accounts a capable pilot and nice person. Some have said their previous perceptions about trans people have changed for the better when working with them.

A lot are active on the dreaded ‘social media’ so you can attack them for being narcissists. But they all seem to be able to fly the aircraft to the required standards, and a lot have been promoted to Captain.

So maybe as time progresses and more trans pilots feel comfortable coming out then perhaps some who have reservations against them will feel less ‘sick’ just by getting to know them better?
You're totally missing the point; the floodgates have been opened for all sorts of weird attire worn by cross dressers and other such individuals who may have a strange fetish. I too would feel uncomfortable sharing the flight deck with a bearded man covered in makeup and dressed in women's clothing. I also totally agree that there would be a CRM/safety concern.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 15:51
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Originally Posted by Confusious View Post
You're totally missing the point; the floodgates have been opened for all sorts of weird attire worn by cross dressers and other such individuals who may have a strange fetish.
Errr, no. The VS policy will not allow ‘weird attire’ or ‘fetish items’ to be worn, just the standard VS uniform, which for pilots looks to be similar to almost every other airline pilot uniform out there.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 16:00
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Dr Dre you are talking absolute bollox if you excuse the intended pun. If we assume that we are professional in our roles as pilots then conflating our private lives with our professional behaviour has the potential to cross many previously withheld lines. You seem to be resistant to other views that do not correspond with your own. I was employed by VS as a captain and indeed training captain some years ago. Both sides of the cockpit door generally operated in professional harmony. There were different colours and creeds, also straight / gay, in essence the usual and expected demographic. I am the typical in your probable view old fashioned captain but however, almost universally back then we were tolerant of each other and worked effectively to get the job done safely. At rest in far flung hotels sometimes we let our hair down, had a few drinks but respected our relative spaces as you would say and proclivities. The non sequitur gobbledegook of the post modern gender issues is several steps too far, is aimed at attention seeking, biology and reality denying narcissists and in terms of Virgin Atlantic could really be their Ratner moment. Because most people do not think that way and will not fly with Virgin and their posse of airborne Danny la Rues. Me included. I have flown with a transgender person, ie a bloke in a dress and it most certainly did not make me feel comfortable at all. Finally, Dr D your continued use of the bizarre phrase ‘pearl clutchers’ is both nonsensical and irritating.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 16:00
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Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
Errr, no. The VS policy will not allow ‘weird attire’ or ‘fetish items’ to be worn, just the standard VS uniform, which for pilots looks to be similar to almost every other airline pilot uniform out there.
You're still missing it!
'floodgates have been opened'
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 16:22
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Originally Posted by Eclan View Post
No, I understand it; I simply what wondered what sort of "bigger" issue warranted such concern but still left capacity to air your unspoken fears on a forum site like this or if it was simply an attempt at studied nonchalance.
I have no unspoken fear. I have flown with people who identify as not as their birth gender. Where did you get the idea I have a problem?
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 16:53
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Its pretty sad people have a problem with this. If a dude wants to wear a skirt, who cares.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 17:08
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I dont really understand the aim of advertising the cabin crew can wear this that and the other . Why would it make anyone choose Virgin over BA for instance ?????? Personally it actually puts me off flying Virgin if that is all they have to worry about
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 17:17
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Originally Posted by Hughes500 View Post
I dont really understand the aim of advertising the cabin crew can wear this that and the other . Why would it make anyone choose Virgin over BA for instance ?????? Personally it actually puts me off flying Virgin if that is all they have to worry about
How long before t'other airline's cabin crew jump up and down through their unions in demand to follow the Virgin attire?
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 18:55
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I do love how people on here have so little knowledge, that they don't get the complete division between Virgin Atlantic and Virgin Australia. It's comparing Rex and Air France.

Of course, once upon a time in the 1980s and 1990s, there were rumours of a well known airline owner sneaking up from behind and being rather hands on with the boobs of their female staff. I was always quite curious that in the Weinstein era none of the ever came out.

Still, I suppose copying Virgin Atlantic's example and being "super woke" just in case, makes sense in those circumstances (definitely not inferring any connection to SRB, definitely)

In any case, for an airline who's only material business is linking London and the US North East, which are pretty liberal, it's probably not exactly a bad commercial stance.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 19:00
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Originally Posted by De_flieger View Post
Don't care in the least, it'd be better than the bloke who stripped off his uniform shirt and flew in a singlet because he thought it was too hot, or the one who trimmed his toenails in the flightdeck. I've certainly flown with many women who effectively wore a slightly tailored version of the "mens" uniform. Pick your uniform out of the company wardrobe and wear it professionally.

The fact that an airline that doesn't even fly to Australia is giving their crew the option to select whichever items from the company uniform they feel most comfortable in isn't going to give me any grief, and realistically it would only be a tiny percentage of staff who choose the options not normally expected. Maybe they were inspired by Easyjet anyway!

This is, in fact, a clear case of cultural appropriation. And no Clan had a bright orange Tartan. I'm so outraged right now! #cancel easyJet
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 19:09
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Originally Posted by Mr Good Cat View Post
This is, in fact, a clear case of cultural appropriation. And no Clan had a bright orange Tartan. I'm so outraged right now! #cancel easyJet
Utter whataboutery.
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Old 30th Sep 2022, 23:55
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Originally Posted by Foxxster View Post
Think it is covered pretty well in this.

https://youtu.be/nkZyTAZc38M
Now thats a funny video. …Officer Diickhead arrests Robert..

Officer Diickhead then calls in the dog squad to harass Roberts wife. Roberts wife then videos a woolly woofter trying to intimidate her..








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Old 1st Oct 2022, 01:14
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From Putin annexation speech today commenting on Western Morals :-)

Do we really want, here, in our country, in Russia, instead of ‘mum’ and ‘dad’, to have ‘parent number one’, ‘parent number two’, ‘number three’? Have they gone completely insane? Do we really want … it drilled into children in our schools … that there are supposedly genders besides women and men, and [children to be] offered the chance to undergo sex change operations? … We have a different future, our own future.”

He is tapping into some of the gender fear that some have shown in this post!
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 02:39
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
From Putin annexation speech today commenting on Western Morals :-)

Do we really want, here, in our country, in Russia, instead of ‘mum’ and ‘dad’, to have ‘parent number one’, ‘parent number two’, ‘number three’? Have they gone completely insane? Do we really want … it drilled into children in our schools … that there are supposedly genders besides women and men, and [children to be] offered the chance to undergo sex change operations? … We have a different future, our own future.”

He is tapping into some of the gender fear that some have shown in this post!
New Italian leader said almost exact the same thing this week, like somehow identity politics is this huge issue, it's not. Many leaders in history have used the same propaganda.
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 02:48
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like somehow identity politics is this huge issue, it's not.
That all depends on your values and point of view.

Are you aware that in the UK police have visited the houses of individuals to CAUTION them about using the wrong pronouns for other people on social media? Look it up.

Seems like a big issue to me when the police (the state) is enforcing compelled use of language.
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 02:54
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So the SFO seated next to me has a beard and moustache, and is wearing a skirt with tights. And perhaps facial and eye make-up.

This will distract me, and at the same time make me feel disconcerted
Meet Harnaam Kaur who wears the signature of one suffering from polycystic ovary syndrome - a beard. It says above that the Ladies in the front seats don't wear skirts, that aside, you would have a problem sharing the cockpit with Harnaam if she were to become a professional pilot?


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Old 1st Oct 2022, 02:55
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I didn't read the comments but this is a great progressive move from Virgin that should be held in high regard. I'm so happy for our trans brothers and sisters for such a big step towards furthering the equality and acceptance they deserve.
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 03:51
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
That all depends on your values and point of view.

Are you aware that in the UK police have visited the houses of individuals to CAUTION them about using the wrong pronouns for other people on social media? Look it up.

Seems like a big issue to me when the police (the state) is enforcing compelled use of language.
At times, it seems the police in the UK are more concerned with being seen to
virtue signal, than they are about solving real crimes.
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Old 1st Oct 2022, 04:48
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Originally Posted by Eclan View Post
I don't know about others but it "bothers" me because I don't like people around me who feel the need to push their individuality....
Reminds me of a quote from Andrew Wilkow

“Your freedom to be you, includes my freedom to be free from you”

Unfortunately, this current generation exhibits an astonishing sense of entitlement when it comes to "respect my pronouns"/whatever/whatever

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