Network Aviation Mass Exodus
Originally Posted by Transition Layer
Calm down people! Think you missed my point, or perhaps I didn’t explain it well.
QF needs to pay Mainline SOs more than subsidiary FOs in order to attract the experienced and proven operators within the group to move to the back seat. I wasn’t talking about the responsibilities of the job as such - I’ve done both, I know which one is harder! Without a little pay rise, why else would you move, given slow progression in Mainline and lower job satisfaction as an SO.
By doing this, Qantas then creates a hole at the bottom and will feed the new Cadets into QLink, NAA, etc. Once they have 5 years jet/turboprop time they too might choose to jump to mainline as SOs. The cycle repeats.
QF needs to pay Mainline SOs more than subsidiary FOs in order to attract the experienced and proven operators within the group to move to the back seat. I wasn’t talking about the responsibilities of the job as such - I’ve done both, I know which one is harder! Without a little pay rise, why else would you move, given slow progression in Mainline and lower job satisfaction as an SO.
By doing this, Qantas then creates a hole at the bottom and will feed the new Cadets into QLink, NAA, etc. Once they have 5 years jet/turboprop time they too might choose to jump to mainline as SOs. The cycle repeats.
The position of SO should be the lowest entry level position, attracting the lowest remuneration, just like it is with JQ 787 and VA 777 prior to Covid. From there you graduate to a regional turboprop or narrow body jet and so on and so on.
How it is currently done in QF where SO seems to be a highly paid role is unique within the aviation industry world wide considering you do virtually nothing………
Can they not just do away with the SO? I mean, I don’t know many airlines globally that invest so much in such a rank. Invest more in FOs, makes succession planning much smoother as time rolls
on.
I assume it’s all about cost right?
on.
I assume it’s all about cost right?
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Originally Posted by Wizofoz
Normally?
easyJet, Ryanair,Emirates.... Cadets graduate to the RHS of the main fleet, and do just fine.
easyJet, Ryanair,Emirates.... Cadets graduate to the RHS of the main fleet, and do just fine.
Tell me, does Easy Jet, Ryanair or EK have Second Officers? If they did, I can almost guarantee that's where a cadet would cut their teeth!
Originally Posted by aussieflyboy
Im not suggest anyone should earn less chump. I’m stating that Network pilots should be earning more. Are you struggling with that concept?
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Originally Posted by Australopithecus
What is absurd is that narrow body jet captains sometimes get paid so little. Don’t fall into the trap of criticising what others make to somehow justify accepting crap T & Cs. QF S/Os have to languish in that role for longer than would be considered fair, and none of them are low time cadets. All of them have paid dues somewhere else before getting hired.
QF pilots may have a bad rep with pilots from other majors. I cannot imagine caring about that. Especially from some CX ****.
QF pilots may have a bad rep with pilots from other majors. I cannot imagine caring about that. Especially from some CX ****.
Originally Posted by davidclarke
I respectfully disagree. QF needs to pay narrowbody FOs more than SOs as these roles are more safety critical and require significantly more experience than a SO.
I respectfully disagree. QF needs to pay narrowbody FOs more than SOs as these roles are more safety critical and require significantly more experience than a SO.
The position of SO should be the lowest entry level position, attracting the lowest remuneration, just like it is with JQ 787 and VA 777 prior to Covid. From there you graduate to a regional turboprop or narrow body jet and so on and so on.
How it is currently done in QF where SO seems to be a highly paid role is unique within the aviation industry world wide considering you do virtually nothing……
The position of SO should be the lowest entry level position, attracting the lowest remuneration, just like it is with JQ 787 and VA 777 prior to Covid. From there you graduate to a regional turboprop or narrow body jet and so on and so on.
How it is currently done in QF where SO seems to be a highly paid role is unique within the aviation industry world wide considering you do virtually nothing……
Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
Agreed!
Transition Layer is delusional! SO time is worth nothing elsewhere in the World. Let’s see who is more valued when the QF Group bury on into the ground. Network A320 F/Os will be taken well before a QF SO.
Transition Layer is delusional! SO time is worth nothing elsewhere in the World. Let’s see who is more valued when the QF Group bury on into the ground. Network A320 F/Os will be taken well before a QF SO.
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Originally Posted by ScepticalOptomist
I doubt it. You forget most of the SOs have come from other airlines with a bunch of experience - they’re not all cadets. They were sitting in your seat prior to joining QF.
Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
True for some, but, most operators stipulate current on type within 18-24 months. SO roles aren’t recognised OS the same as at QF.
how is that relevant? Why would any SO go looking overseas? You realise if QF ‘bury it in’ that’s NAA gone as well yeah!
who deserves what is irrelevant. The only relevant point is ‘you are what you negotiate’. The QF EA has been around for ages. The network ‘agreement’ was some managers wet dream at a time of pilot oversupply. Don’t direct your anger at the QF pilots. If you’re really that pissed you need someone to blame, look at the NAA management.
it may be a hard concept for some of you bitter folk to digest, but you’ll struggle to find a Qf pilot who DOESNT want your terms increased. For a multitude of reasons, one being it’s what you deserve for your work and experience and another being it removed the ability to constantly play one group off against another. We’re all sick of seeing our skills and qualifications dragged d through the mud. Why on earth woukd anyone want to see another pilots pay/terms squashed. Just ludicrous.
Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
how is that relevant? Why would any SO go looking overseas? You realise if QF ‘bury it in’ that’s NAA gone as well yeah!
who deserves what is irrelevant. The only relevant point is ‘you are what you negotiate’. The QF EA has been around for ages. The network ‘agreement’ was some managers wet dream at a time of pilot oversupply. Don’t direct your anger at the QF pilots. If you’re really that pissed you need someone to blame, look at the NAA management.
it may be a hard concept for some of you bitter folk to digest, but you’ll struggle to find a Qf pilot who DOESNT want your terms increased. For a multitude of reasons, one being it’s what you deserve for your work and experience and another being it removed the ability to constantly play one group off against another. We’re all sick of seeing our skills and qualifications dragged d through the mud. Why on earth woukd anyone want to see another pilots pay/terms squashed. Just ludicrous.
who deserves what is irrelevant. The only relevant point is ‘you are what you negotiate’. The QF EA has been around for ages. The network ‘agreement’ was some managers wet dream at a time of pilot oversupply. Don’t direct your anger at the QF pilots. If you’re really that pissed you need someone to blame, look at the NAA management.
it may be a hard concept for some of you bitter folk to digest, but you’ll struggle to find a Qf pilot who DOESNT want your terms increased. For a multitude of reasons, one being it’s what you deserve for your work and experience and another being it removed the ability to constantly play one group off against another. We’re all sick of seeing our skills and qualifications dragged d through the mud. Why on earth woukd anyone want to see another pilots pay/terms squashed. Just ludicrous.
Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
how is that relevant? Why would any SO go looking overseas?...
Originally Posted by abaderrr
perhaps we should be asking the 6 QF SO's that are on the most recent Atlas course?
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Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
ok. And what was their previous background? Above posters imply SO’s are all useless sacks that don’t know the first thing about aviation. As TL said…plenty of great pilots with heaps of experience!
Fine. Enjoy your COS18 then and your endless rounds of quarantine. Keep telling yourself that being true to yourself is more important than having a life.
As Extra Shot gobbled off, QF SOs used to occupy my seat. I’ve had wide body command for 25yrs. Anyone with my experience taking an SO gig at QF is not true to him/her self
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Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
ok. And what was their previous background? Above posters imply SO’s are all useless sacks that don’t know the first thing about aviation. As TL said…plenty of great pilots with heaps of experience!
Originally Posted by ActiveLooker
Not to mention the new bed turndown service skills QF teach them
so bitter. Bitter that after a ‘25 year wide body command’ an SO (who may also have been a WB captain) earns more for doing less.
instead of focussing on others, see what you can do about your own situation. You could always chuck an application in if you’re that concerned.
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Originally Posted by cloudsurfng
so bitter. Bitter that after a ‘25 year wide body command’ an SO (who may also have been a WB captain) earns more for doing less.
instead of focussing on others, see what you can do about your own situation. You could always chuck an application in if you’re that concerned.
instead of focussing on others, see what you can do about your own situation. You could always chuck an application in if you’re that concerned.
