Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Air NZ Jet

Old 18th Jan 2024, 20:57
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er
Should the current GM be Ďreplacedí, any guesses whether the current recruitment scheme might see the skip? Sounds like the Links are already very short on potential new Skippers and itís only early days!!
This year will be rather telling to the future of the RPPP as itís about to be put to the test with external recruitment planned to ramp up. If our current GM hasnít heeded the warnings and put a plan in place then history will repeat itself and things could get rather ugly.

The Airline is critically short on Pilots, masked only by reduced fleet numbers. A320 Captains were asked to hand back leave recently even though weíve got 4 A/C grounded minus engines and flying a reduced schedule.

Originally Posted by Massey058
​​​​​​There are pros and cons to every system. The previous iterations of recruitment didn't necessarily work and this one may not entirely either. We are in a somewhat unique environment. How long will it last?

I don't see how throwing the current system out will make much difference other than creating slightly different effects.

I mean one solution might be massive pay rises and overseas recruitment into the Regional airline but I really can't see that happening.
No system is perfect agreed, but the problem with the current system is itís not flexible. Tag & Release only benefits a single group while heavily punishing another to the point where they stop showing up right when we need them.

Originally Posted by ruralaviator
any word on progress with the low hour pilot programme? rough timelines anyone or still early days
Not officially no, itís gone rather quiet, but I did hear theyíre looking at overseas providers who have experience training Cadets.
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Old 20th Feb 2024, 03:25
  #202 (permalink)  
 
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Anyone atteneded the AirNZ interview recently? Any pointers or feed thta you can share? Thanks heaps, SM
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Old 25th Feb 2024, 20:35
  #203 (permalink)  
 
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Any truth to all the rumours about the 8 year ban being dropped?
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Old 25th Feb 2024, 21:27
  #204 (permalink)  
 
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Surely that 8 year van will be the first thing to go, they could do that tomorrow. When they are having to send people to OZ to try and find pilots something is horribly wrong. Between the 8 year van and the RPPP they have cornered themselves.
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Old 26th Feb 2024, 01:31
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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I'd expect to see the 8-year restriction lowered at some point, but it won't be tomorrow. Some consultation is required first.

People who think the RPPP is going to disappear, are in fact, dreaming.
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Old 26th Feb 2024, 03:11
  #206 (permalink)  
 
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Big prop captain exodus about to begin.

People were gonna leave either way, except now air nz canít recruit enough externals either.
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Old 26th Feb 2024, 03:16
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dctPub
Big prop captain exodus about to begin.

People were gonna leave either way, except now air nz canít recruit enough externals either.
​​​​​​
​​​​​​All power to people and there's certainly a lot of options for people that can make them work but departures have been few and far between and there certainly isn't any more chatter than pre-RPPP or pre-COVID.
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Old 26th Feb 2024, 19:08
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by dctPub
Big prop captain exodus about to begin.

People were gonna leave either way, except now air nz canít recruit enough externals either.
It's actually a real shame because the prop fleet is actually an awesome job. If they came to the table and paid significantly more people wouldn't be feeling the need to head abroad or be so pushed to take a base where they have no association just to get on the RPPP list. Adding to this is the growing discontent with blended pay and the fact that people who are joining are years away from being eligible for a command based on their hours (not a poor relection on them at all just fact).
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Old 27th Feb 2024, 02:23
  #209 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AviatorPac
. Adding to this is the growing discontent with blended pay and the fact that people who are joining are years away from being eligible for a command based on their hours (not a poor relection on them at all just fact).
Can you clarify what you mean by this, and maybe give some examples?

I mean It does actually take a few years to get the experience and exposure for a command
flying around Enzed. 👍🏽
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Old 27th Feb 2024, 02:56
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AviatorPac
Adding to this is the growing discontent with blended pay and the fact that people who are joining are years away from being eligible for a command based on their hours (not a poor relection on them at all just fact).
I'm sure we are all very sorry that those joining with 500 hours will have to wait some years to meet the command requirements. Sarcasm aside, a dose of reality might not hurt. Let's go back a decade or two. You might join with 3000 hours and still have been 5 years in the right-hand seat.

The impatience of Gen Z has been observed across many industries!
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Old 27th Feb 2024, 05:04
  #211 (permalink)  
 
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5 years? Try 12 as an S/O
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Old 27th Feb 2024, 05:31
  #212 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by here_we_go_again
I'm sure we are all very sorry that those joining with 500 hours will have to wait some years to meet the command requirements. Sarcasm aside, a dose of reality might not hurt. Let's go back a decade or two. You might join with 3000 hours and still have been 5 years in the right-hand seat.

The impatience of Gen Z has been observed across many industries!
The impatience comes down to money. Financially everyone is worse off than a decade or two ago.
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Old 27th Feb 2024, 07:56
  #213 (permalink)  
 
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Echoing what was said earlier - domestic turboprop is a great job but it isn't reasonable to blame it just on impatience. If it paid a salary remotely approaching the rise in property price and inflation we'd all be happy to wait. Given the lengthening path via RPPP hard to have a lot of confidence in progression to jets.

AirNZ definitely has some work to do ironing things out
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Old 27th Feb 2024, 21:31
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Originally Posted by RexMorgan
Echoing what was said earlier - domestic turboprop is a great job but it isn't reasonable to blame it just on impatience. If it paid a salary remotely approaching the rise in property price and inflation we'd all be happy to wait. Given the lengthening path via RPPP hard to have a lot of confidence in progression to jets.

AirNZ definitely has some work to do ironing things out
When does your CEA expire?
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Old 27th Feb 2024, 23:35
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Can you forward that to Greg Foran on behalf of all of us affected? Thanks
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Old 28th Feb 2024, 03:53
  #216 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by framer
5 years? Try 12 as an S/O
The most recent Airbus captains are to individuals with just over 8yrs of service and 787 F/O spots are just over 9yrs of service.

where did you get 12 years from?
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Old 28th Feb 2024, 03:54
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KiwiAvi8er
When does your CEA expire?
depending on the contract but ALPA is 16 May 2024
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Old 28th Feb 2024, 06:23
  #218 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by InZed
The most recent Airbus captains are to individuals with just over 8yrs of service and 787 F/O spots are just over 9yrs of service.

where did you get 12 years from?
"Back in muuuuh day"
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Old 28th Feb 2024, 06:57
  #219 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by continue#1
Originally Posted by AviatorPac
It's actually a real shame because the prop fleet is actually an awesome job. If they came to the table and paid significantly more people wouldn't be feeling the need to head abroad or be so pushed to take a base where they have no association just to get on the RPPP list. Adding to this is the growing discontent with blended pay and the fact that people who are joining are years away from being eligible for a command based on their hours (not a poor relection on them at all just fact).
Can you clarify what you mean by this, and maybe give some examples?

I mean It does actually take a few years to get the experience and exposure for a command
flying around Enzed. 👍🏽
People taking bases where they have no association? I assume they're talking about just taking whatever command comes up (even if out of their preferred/current base) so they can start accruing their 12 months of command ASAP which means they are eligible to bid via RPPP.

Blended pay? "New" ATR pilots (join date on/after 3 OCT 2019) not getting paid as much as ATR pilots on the grandfathered pay scale. The difference is not insignificant. It was an effective pay rise for all Q300 pilots, so not as much chatter about it there. Ideally, the company would have just pulled all pilots up to the grandfathered scale when the TP CA was negotiated, but the company claimed they couldn't afford it. They kind of got a "free pass" on this issue in 2022, but it will be interesting to see how hard, if at all, the unions push for it next round (1 OCT 2025).

If you're talking about the people being years away from being eligible for a command... it's simple math. They've hired a lot of FOs in the 500-700hr TT region. They're getting like 300-400hrs of flying a year. If they're lucky! Some are getting less. Training is taking up a lot of the FO flying (both new FOs line training, and Training Captains in RHS during CMD training).

Given that SIC time is halved when counting for ATPL minimum requirements, (and command practice can now only be counted while PF), even getting to the ATPL minimums, let alone the company CMD minimums, is going to take a while for a lot of these new FOs.
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Old 8th Mar 2024, 06:36
  #220 (permalink)  
 
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Any idea how many pilots are approaching 65 in the next 5 years?
Also, how do you think Covid has affected career progression for new hires, do you think the ~ 10 years to 320 command/wide body FO will change?
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