Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

Qantas loses $860 million last year.

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Qantas loses $860 million last year.

Old 28th Aug 2022, 05:20
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2,898
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Not sure I'd be predicting the victory of a company with $42m cash in the bank vs one with $3.3b either.
Depends if the $3.3B is unencumbered. That we will never know. It might be security for some loans.

If you want full accounts they are available from the ASX. Plenty of share market programs will give you access
neville_nobody is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 06:44
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sunny Coast
Posts: 247
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by onezeroonethree View Post
Good one. Letís take away the last carrier in the country with legacy conditions. Let Rex and Alliance pay become the new norm to aim for.

Rather drive a bus for that money.
Legacy carriers are only surviving
When propped by a government
If merged into super airlines
Are owned by the workers

They are failing around the planet

Points in case
Ethiopian massive government support
ME3 see above
SQ see above
China see above

Or Asian gobbled up by Korean
Or the super groups of Europe IAG and AF/KLM
Or the US super mergers, never by choice, only out of desperation

But QF/JQ don't fall into any of the above
Better compared to mmmm
South African or Alitalia or Sabina or Swiss or Mexicana or Malev or soon to be Cathey
Shouldn't keep propping up these national dinosaurs and plenty have failed already

QF/JQ is a dinosaur attempting to morph into something that can survive, but just can't seem to find the right path
They are trying to reduce costs by outsourcing everything
They are trying to get cashflow by selling tickets in advance, cancelling services, then offering play money vouchers
They are trying to hold market share by trying to bully other carriers into submission
They are trying to increase load factors by cutting services by 10%
They are trying to increase revenue by hiking fares by 20%
They are placing headline grabbing orders for hundreds of new birds then having tens only delivered (initial order for 787s was like 60 odd firm + options to 120 and less than 25 delivered and A320s what is it now nearly 200?)
They receive handouts and concessions from the taxpayers into the billions and still post consecutive billion dollar losses
They launch new routes to India, Korea, JFK, Rome and Project Sunrise, yet can't even run on time or service the routes the already have

Can you not smell the desperation regarding all of these decisions
There is no clear path from the Irishman, it's clearly all a desperate attempt to stave off bankruptcy
And being a private company, they should expect the same treatment VA got when the axe swung on them along with AN

So sure take it while it's there, but be prepared to move to the Middle East or Asia if you seek similar conditions when QF/JQ either folds or outsources its flying
Deano969 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 06:53
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
OK fess up, which Qantas group pilot slept with this guys wife?
das Uber Soldat is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 07:03
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sunny Coast
Posts: 247
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
OOps forgot to mention
Look over there, yep don't look at our losses or OTP, forget about our call centre issues they have all been fixed NOT

Quick look or you may miss it
Hey we are flying to JFK again
Project Sunrise is coming
New A320s and A321s have been ordered
A220s as well

But hey look over there, now we want tenders to replace our A330s cos they are getting on a bit
Yea I know we own plenty of them, but we can sell em for cash and lease new ones, that'll get more cash in the bank
Yea I know we got a ton of 321s and 787s on order and these will end up being the replacements anyways but hey seriously its better to look over there
Na don't worry who's gunna fly em, Network, NJS, JQ or foreign workers, it's still Qantas right....
Deano969 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 07:08
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Sunny Coast
Posts: 247
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Aw crap am I gunna get banned by mods?
Or does PoppaJo or MickyG have my address and gunna pay me a visit
Sundys fa drinkin fellas

Deano969 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 07:41
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Australia
Age: 56
Posts: 2,137
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 4 Posts
Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
OK fess up, which Qantas group pilot slept with this guys wife?
With this much dedication to PPRuNe, the poor bloke doesnít have a life or a wife!
Stationair8 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 07:45
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2022
Location: Syd
Posts: 75
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Can I play too?

They are trying to get cashflow by selling tickets in advance, cancelling services, then offering play money vouchers
I had my flight cancelled, the choice was from a dozen other options same day, or a refund.

They are trying to increase load factors by cutting services by 10%
Find me an airline on earth that is not cutting services to grow revenue to offset surging fuel prices? Itís not about making headline load numbers look pretty on financial reports my friend.

They are trying to increase revenue by hiking fares by 20%
Coles and Woolworths about 9%. Kmart 12%. Qantas 20% Rex 11% Your point?

They launch new routes to India, Korea, JFK, Rome and Project Sunrise, yet can't even run on time or service the routes the already have
Seems to be in the 90% range for departures today.

So sure take it while it's there, but be prepared to move to the Middle East or Asia if you seek similar conditions when QF/JQ either folds or outsources its flying
I would hardly call Jetstar conditions legacy. Also did you miss the SH Qantas EBA getting up? Bonza seems to be having challenges getting numbers for its payscale, times that by a few hundred other positions, seems laughable.

Can you not smell the desperation regarding all of these decisions
No, I canít.

So essentially, what your saying is you want Qantas and Jetstar to fold because itís good for the industry? (or as above some FO is seeing your misses?)
Mr_App is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 07:46
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,938
Received 36 Likes on 23 Posts
Originally Posted by Deano969 View Post
Na don't worry who's gunna fly em, Network, NJS, JQ or foreign workers, it's still Qantas right....
Not sure if you're aware Deano but the A321 will be flown by mainline SH pilots, the 350 and the eventual 330 replacement (my guess is more 787s) will be flown by mainline LH pilots. None of that flying will be outsourced. This has already been announced and signed into EBA variations that have been lodged with FWA.

The rest of your comment is quite accurate:


Hey we are flying to JFK again
Project Sunrise is coming
New A320s and A321s have been ordered
A220s as well

But hey look over there, now we want tenders to replace our A330s cos they are getting on a bit
Yea I know we own plenty of them, but we can sell em for cash and lease new ones, that'll get more cash in the bank
Yea I know we got a ton of 321s and 787s on order and these will end up being the replacements anyways but hey seriously its better to look over there
You're quite correct. Qantas is in a strong financial position, a big profit will be made next FY, lots of expansion on the horizon, plenty of new planes on order, lots of pilot recruitment planned for the next few years. Anyone who joins the mainline seniority list in the next few months is going to be in a really good position for the rest of their career.

On the other hand Rex, with it's supposed "much superior" financial position, had 10% of it's pilots resign in a week last month, and I'm going to guess a lot of them to come to mainline. They don't share your rosy assessment of Rex and bleak assessment of QF. It would be unheard of for 10% of mainline pilots (220 odd) to resign in one week to go to other pastures.

Last edited by dr dre; 28th Aug 2022 at 08:05.
dr dre is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 13:35
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 836
Received 20 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
Depends if the $3.3B is unencumbered. That we will never know.
You can't include "restricted cash" (viz cash being held for a specific purpose such that it is not available for current general business use) as a current asset such as cash and cash equivalents unless it is declared. The preliminary final financial report released the other day notes that $201 million of the $2.787 billion being held as short-term money market securities is pledged as collateral against certain loans.
MickG0105 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 13:44
  #70 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 3,594
Likes: 0
Received 28 Likes on 21 Posts
They are trying to get cashflow by selling tickets in advance,
Unheard of in the aviation world.

And being a private company, they should expect the same treatment VA got when the axe swung on them along with AN
Qantas is a public company, not a private one, do try to keep up.
Icarus2001 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 13:57
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: New Zealand
Age: 70
Posts: 1,480
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Deano969 View Post
And not just kneel over, I would like this bullying dinosaur monopoly to go the same way as AN
Thatís a pretty fu#ked up thing to say mate. In my day pilots were a strong group, even when working for opposing airlines. We never wished for the opposition to go bust and for people to become unemployed. Sure, there were some strong egos and shenanigans on the ramp, but thatís as far as it went. Deano, probably time to take a break and chill mate, itís not cool to wish bad karma on others.
Paragraph377 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 14:05
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,938
Received 36 Likes on 23 Posts
Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Qantas is a public company, not a private one, do try to keep up.
Even thought itís a publicly listed company (or as I think Deano means a non government owned one) QF is unique in the fact itís governed by a piece of legislation, the Qantas Sale Act. It straight up ensures QF will be majority Australian owned. When the last amendments to the act were proposed then shadow transport minister now Prime Minister Albo said that he wouldnít completely abandon the national carrier to foreign interests.

So if QF found itself in the position that AN did in 2001 and VA in 2020 (although thereís no hint of that happening currently) the position of the airline as enshrined in legislation would see it treated differently to the other carriers.
dr dre is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 14:28
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: juneau
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The roo will be swimming in dollars this time next year, and pay no tax due to the great stewardship of handouts by AJ. The only advice I have for long term shareholders an opportunity will present at that time to exit the stock at top of the market.

Do not let sentiment sway you, QF has cashed in all its goodwill with the public, in future it will not be too big to fail.

I really feel for the employees who are in this toxic battered wife relationship with their boss. Heard Tony Boyd(AFR Chanticleer) on ABC the other day saying that AJ could be gone end of calendar year 2023.
teiemka is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 14:48
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,938
Received 36 Likes on 23 Posts
Heard Tony Boyd(AFR Chanticleer) on ABC the other day saying that AJ could be gone end of calendar year 2023.
Why? Heís just provided a better than expected annual result and the share price has risen as a consequence. He may be loathed but heís delivering exactly what the investors and board want.

Hereís the interview with Tony Boyd:

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ses-/101379090

He actually doesnít say Joyce could be gone by end calendar year 2023, he says Joyce will probably stay til at least end calendar year 2023. From that interview I donít think he knows too much about the aviation industry, for instance QF has always had higher fares than its competitors, this didnít prevent them making billion dollar profits from 2016-2019. Iíd also question his description of this current w as the most difficult crisis QF has ever faced, the GFC, the capacity war with VA and Covid were worse.
dr dre is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 14:49
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 836
Received 20 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by teiemka View Post
Heard Tony Boyd(AFR Chanticleer) on ABC the other day saying that AJ could be gone end of calendar year 2023.
Hardly prescient. Will be gone before the end of calendar year 2023 is almost a certainty. In 2020 the Board signed him up to oversee a three year strategy. They'll almost certainly be looking to announce his replacement around the end of FY23.
MickG0105 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 15:01
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The World
Posts: 1,938
Received 36 Likes on 23 Posts
Originally Posted by MickG0105 View Post
Hardly prescient. Will be gone before the end of calendar year 2023 is almost a certainty. In 2020 the Board signed him up to oversee a three year strategy. They'll almost certainly be looking to announce his replacement around the end of FY23.
I personally think heíll stay until 2025 after the first Sunrise flight. He couldíve bailed out in 18/19 after returning the airline to profitability but stayed because they had the Sunrise plan coming up. He doesnít need more money but wants the legacy to have introduced the longest flight route in existence.

Perhaps the successor will work alongside him for the next few years until he departs in 25 after the inaugural Sunrise flight?
dr dre is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 15:11
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Sunshine Coast
Posts: 836
Received 20 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by dr dre View Post
I personally think heíll stay until 2025 after the first Sunrise flight. He couldíve bailed out in 18/19 after returning the airline to profitability but stayed because they had the Sunrise plan coming up. He doesnít need more money but wants the legacy to have introduced the longest flight route in existence.

Perhaps the successor will work alongside him for the next few years until he departs in 25 after the inaugural Sunrise flight?
As the Zen Master was fond of saying, 'We'll see.'
MickG0105 is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 15:17
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: juneau
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by dr dre View Post

https://www.abc.net.au/radionational...ses-/101379090

He actually doesnít say Joyce could be gone by end calendar year 2023, he says Joyce will probably stay til at least end calendar year 2023. From that interview I donít think he knows too much about the aviation industry, for instance QF has always had higher fares than its competitors, this didnít prevent them making billion dollar profits from 2016-2019. .
Yep, sorry messed that up on succession.

Regarding the higher airfares, you charge what you can get away with.

From the results presentation seems most media outlets focused on the fare increases to recoup higher fuel costs (10% Domestic, 20% INT). AJ was supremely confident that it would be absorbed by customers without affecting demand irrespective of the wider economic environment. I tend to agree with him in this regard for domestic flying,itís not like the competitors get a cheaper fuel price, or have more fuel efficient aircraft as percentage of fleet.
teiemka is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 15:33
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: juneau
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by MickG0105 View Post
As the Zen Master was fond of saying, 'We'll see.'

Yes, we will, but is that person currently in the QF GMC?

......would it be possible for a successful internal candidate to change the current toxic relationship between management and employees?
teiemka is offline  
Old 28th Aug 2022, 23:22
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 24 Likes on 8 Posts
Originally Posted by teiemka View Post
1. Yes, we will, but is that person currently in the QF GMC?

2. .....would it be possible for a successful internal candidate to change the current toxic relationship between management and employees?
1. Almost certainly.
2. No.
C441 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.