ATSB release report into Malaysian A330 Pitot covers left on....
Care to tell us if it's an OPS SPEC or Foreign AOC that permits you to operate into / out of Malaysia? The fact is that some countries require a FAOC, others not, sometimes it depends on how many times you visit etc.
https://www.caam.gov.my/wp-content/u...-6005-FAOC.pdf
USA (FAA) requires a DOT approval certificate with OpsSpec compliance.
EU (EASA) requires a TCO FAOC validation.
They all amount to the same thing, a document that spells out how you will comply with local regulations, DG requirements and various other things, which in Australia is basically an AOC.
Yes, most people do call it a "Foreign AOC", which isn't what it is. What possible confusion could arise...
Malaysia (CAAM) requires a FAOC validation for operators.
https://www.caam.gov.my/wp-content/u...-6005-FAOC.pdf
USA (FAA) requires a DOT approval certificate with OpsSpec compliance.
EU (EASA) requires a TCO FAOC validation.
They all amount to the same thing, a document that spells out how you will comply with local regulations, DG requirements and various other things, which in Australia is basically an AOC.
https://www.caam.gov.my/wp-content/u...-6005-FAOC.pdf
USA (FAA) requires a DOT approval certificate with OpsSpec compliance.
EU (EASA) requires a TCO FAOC validation.
They all amount to the same thing, a document that spells out how you will comply with local regulations, DG requirements and various other things, which in Australia is basically an AOC.
In comment about your answer - they may all amount to the same end game, but take different amounts of energy (and time) to acquire....
Well written report. That night I was pushing back and watched them taxi past. They were close enough for me to see the pitot heads but I must admit I didn’t see the red tags. I was held at C8 on B and watched the whole thing. They subsequently closed the runway and we had to use 32. Just made it weight wise using bleeds off.
Sill feel guilty for not noticing anything abnormal. We even joked “there goes disappearing Airlines”. The landing looked exciting and I am impressed with the 330 back up airspeed indicator.
Sill feel guilty for not noticing anything abnormal. We even joked “there goes disappearing Airlines”. The landing looked exciting and I am impressed with the 330 back up airspeed indicator.
Are the covers/probes viewable when sticking your head out the window on the 330? Imo you’re crazy not to visually confirm at least one is off (with the assumption that if one’s off, it’s likely the ginger beer has done his or her job). It’s a 5 second effort.
A bit longer I think. 😉 It will take you 5 seconds just to open the DV window on a Boeing 777. Then you will need to lean out and look down at the probes, and you'll have to be partially up and off of your seat, with your head and upper torso outside the window aperture to do that. Some ground-pounder with a Health & Safety qualification certificate, hung on the back of his door, will probably have a fit if pilots did that regularly. 😄
As an aside, in the 16+ years I have been flying airliners I cannot recall there ever being pitot covers fitted on the aircraft I have arrived at, in preparation for flight! Merely an observation. That doesn't mean I don't check carefully on the walk-around, I do. The 92 seconds this incident Captain spent on his external inspection, including 9 seconds at the nose gear, is a pretty poor effort.
I can see how an overworked engineer, with another two aircraft to turn around might notice the covers and think "I must get some steps to take those off". But then, the fueler comes over to have the chit signed and someone else comes up to him and says a cargo roller has jammed in the forward hold. On his way to the cockpit to write up the fuel in the tech log, someone says the rear sink is blocked or the IFE is not working etc, etc.
I can see that the first item - the covers - could get forgotten. But why did the pilots not notice during their walk around? Do they really need a streamer to see if a cover is on a pitot probe? Why not simply just look at each probe - I always do, (as well as each landing gear pin hole or strut to check no lock pins have been left in).
I would hope that engineers have a checklist to make sure everything gets done and not missed on the turnaround, and also it seems that pilots need a more comprehensive checklist than the present "Gear pins and covers?",
e.g:
Engine cowls? Closed and locked
Gear pins? Removed
Engine blanks? Removed
Pitot covers? Removed
Static covers? Removed
AoA vanes? Clear
Fuel panel? Closed
Our industry used to pride itself on learning from mistakes. Let's learn from this one. Ropes attached to the pitot covers so they can be removed from ground level without having to go and find steps. Checklists for engineers. Instruction for pilots on how to check the aircraft on a walk-around, and I don't mean a series of written words in an FCOM; I mean someone actually physically showing the pilots where the ground lock pin holes are on the undercarriage struts. Where the pitot probes are. What to look for and where everything is.
Training, training, training.
I can see that the first item - the covers - could get forgotten. But why did the pilots not notice during their walk around? Do they really need a streamer to see if a cover is on a pitot probe? Why not simply just look at each probe - I always do, (as well as each landing gear pin hole or strut to check no lock pins have been left in).
I would hope that engineers have a checklist to make sure everything gets done and not missed on the turnaround, and also it seems that pilots need a more comprehensive checklist than the present "Gear pins and covers?",
e.g:
Engine cowls? Closed and locked
Gear pins? Removed
Engine blanks? Removed
Pitot covers? Removed
Static covers? Removed
AoA vanes? Clear
Fuel panel? Closed
Our industry used to pride itself on learning from mistakes. Let's learn from this one. Ropes attached to the pitot covers so they can be removed from ground level without having to go and find steps. Checklists for engineers. Instruction for pilots on how to check the aircraft on a walk-around, and I don't mean a series of written words in an FCOM; I mean someone actually physically showing the pilots where the ground lock pin holes are on the undercarriage struts. Where the pitot probes are. What to look for and where everything is.
Training, training, training.
I can see how an overworked engineer, with another two aircraft to turn around might notice the covers and think "I must get some steps to take those off". But then, the fueler comes over to have the chit signed and someone else comes up to him and says a cargo roller has jammed in the forward hold. On his way to the cockpit to write up the fuel in the tech log, someone says the rear sink is blocked or the IFE is not working etc, etc.
I can see that the first item - the covers - could get forgotten. But why did the pilots not notice during their walk around? Do they really need a streamer to see if a cover is on a pitot probe? Why not simply just look at each probe - I always do, (as well as each landing gear pin hole or strut to check no lock pins have been left in).
I would hope that engineers have a checklist to make sure everything gets done and not missed on the turnaround, and also it seems that pilots need a more comprehensive checklist than the present "Gear pins and covers?",
e.g:
Engine cowls? Closed and locked
Gear pins? Removed
Engine blanks? Removed
Pitot covers? Removed
Static covers? Removed
AoA vanes? Clear
Fuel panel? Closed
Our industry used to pride itself on learning from mistakes. Let's learn from this one. Ropes attached to the pitot covers so they can be removed from ground level without having to go and find steps. Checklists for engineers. Instruction for pilots on how to check the aircraft on a walk-around, and I don't mean a series of written words in an FCOM; I mean someone actually physically showing the pilots where the ground lock pin holes are on the undercarriage struts. Where the pitot probes are. What to look for and where everything is.
Training, training, training.
I can see that the first item - the covers - could get forgotten. But why did the pilots not notice during their walk around? Do they really need a streamer to see if a cover is on a pitot probe? Why not simply just look at each probe - I always do, (as well as each landing gear pin hole or strut to check no lock pins have been left in).
I would hope that engineers have a checklist to make sure everything gets done and not missed on the turnaround, and also it seems that pilots need a more comprehensive checklist than the present "Gear pins and covers?",
e.g:
Engine cowls? Closed and locked
Gear pins? Removed
Engine blanks? Removed
Pitot covers? Removed
Static covers? Removed
AoA vanes? Clear
Fuel panel? Closed
Our industry used to pride itself on learning from mistakes. Let's learn from this one. Ropes attached to the pitot covers so they can be removed from ground level without having to go and find steps. Checklists for engineers. Instruction for pilots on how to check the aircraft on a walk-around, and I don't mean a series of written words in an FCOM; I mean someone actually physically showing the pilots where the ground lock pin holes are on the undercarriage struts. Where the pitot probes are. What to look for and where everything is.
Training, training, training.
Unfortunately too many have succumbed to the “cheaper is better” mantra.
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I can see how an overworked engineer, with another two aircraft to turn around might notice the covers and think "I must get some steps to take those off". But then, the fueler comes over to have the chit signed and someone else comes up to him and says a cargo roller has jammed in the forward hold. On his way to the cockpit to write up the fuel in the tech log, someone says the rear sink is blocked or the IFE is not working etc, etc.
I can see that the first item - the covers - could get forgotten. But why did the pilots not notice during their walk around? Do they really need a streamer to see if a cover is on a pitot probe? Why not simply just look at each probe - I always do, (as well as each landing gear pin hole or strut to check no lock pins have been left in).
I would hope that engineers have a checklist to make sure everything gets done and not missed on the turnaround, and also it seems that pilots need a more comprehensive checklist than the present "Gear pins and covers?",
e.g:
Engine cowls? Closed and locked
Gear pins? Removed
Engine blanks? Removed
Pitot covers? Removed
Static covers? Removed
AoA vanes? Clear
Fuel panel? Closed
Our industry used to pride itself on learning from mistakes. Let's learn from this one. Ropes attached to the pitot covers so they can be removed from ground level without having to go and find steps. Checklists for engineers. Instruction for pilots on how to check the aircraft on a walk-around, and I don't mean a series of written words in an FCOM; I mean someone actually physically showing the pilots where the ground lock pin holes are on the undercarriage struts. Where the pitot probes are. What to look for and where everything is.
Training, training, training.
I can see that the first item - the covers - could get forgotten. But why did the pilots not notice during their walk around? Do they really need a streamer to see if a cover is on a pitot probe? Why not simply just look at each probe - I always do, (as well as each landing gear pin hole or strut to check no lock pins have been left in).
I would hope that engineers have a checklist to make sure everything gets done and not missed on the turnaround, and also it seems that pilots need a more comprehensive checklist than the present "Gear pins and covers?",
e.g:
Engine cowls? Closed and locked
Gear pins? Removed
Engine blanks? Removed
Pitot covers? Removed
Static covers? Removed
AoA vanes? Clear
Fuel panel? Closed
Our industry used to pride itself on learning from mistakes. Let's learn from this one. Ropes attached to the pitot covers so they can be removed from ground level without having to go and find steps. Checklists for engineers. Instruction for pilots on how to check the aircraft on a walk-around, and I don't mean a series of written words in an FCOM; I mean someone actually physically showing the pilots where the ground lock pin holes are on the undercarriage struts. Where the pitot probes are. What to look for and where everything is.
Training, training, training.
Yes, engineers have check lists, there is usually a copy in the back of the tech log or in a supplementary folder with all the insurance certificates and aircraft legal docs somewhere on the flight deck. Legally it should be referred to every time a Transit or pre flight check is signed but frankly no one hardly ever does unless there has been a recent change.
Ropes on pitot covers is no good i'm afraid, they are clipped in place to stop them blowing off.
As I said earlier the aviation industry might fly cutting edge technology, but the work practices behind the scenes are 1950s era. External Covers that can result in catastrophic loss if left in place should be NFT buttoned, and a data-logger involved which records when they are put in place and when they are removed. Then the human peanut is not relied on to remember. The reader needs to be close enough to read the tag, so it will be when they are removed, not when they are looked at. The record of removal should be straight into a computerised maintenance management system (CMMS) and it will not release the aircraft for flight until that item is logged in the system as done. That is a big red flag saying 'don't fly me stupid' comes up in front of the meat bag sitting in the flight deck looking at their tablet or whatever.
Our industry used to pride itself on learning from mistakes. Let's learn from this one. Ropes attached to the pitot covers so they can be removed from ground level without having to go and find steps.
Aviation in the future will be dominated by penny pinching safety reports as that is the only way anything will be justified by the accountants. They will just shoot it down on cost until we bend an aeroplane and have a starring role in a ATSB report then they can justify the cost.
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Yes until airlines decided that bonuses as opposed to straight salaries for management were a good idea. Good luck justifying your "safety" case for a longer piece of rope and a big flag attached in someone's budget prior to this incident.
Aviation in the future will be dominated by penny pinching safety reports as that is the only way anything will be justified by the accountants. They will just shoot it down on cost until we bend an aeroplane and have a starring role in a ATSB report then they can justify the cost.
Aviation in the future will be dominated by penny pinching safety reports as that is the only way anything will be justified by the accountants. They will just shoot it down on cost until we bend an aeroplane and have a starring role in a ATSB report then they can justify the cost.
...............Yes, engineers have check lists, there is usually a copy in the back of the tech log or in a supplementary folder with all the insurance certificates and aircraft legal docs somewhere on the flight deck. Legally it should be referred to every time a Transit or pre flight check is signed but frankly no one hardly ever does unless there has been a recent change.
Many years ago when I was a fairly new flying sprog; I innocently asked an engineer if they used checklists, as we pilots did. "No", came the reply; "we use common sense". Well that's all well and good, until someone forgets something or gets distracted, which is what checklists are supposed to mitigate. I personally would not trust my own memory, especially in an environment full of distractions. If I was an engineer, I would write and use my own checklists in a pocket sized format, if non were available. (But I am not blaming the engineers in this instance).
Ropes on pitot covers is no good i'm afraid, they are clipped in place to stop them blowing off.
Getting hold of steps can be a pain in the hoo hoo. When it is icy, pilots need steps to check the top wing surface, but the only steps usually available are the fueler's, which don't quite reach. There should be a set of steps on every main stand.
Yes, I know. This would all cost money - It might add as much as a whole pound Sterling per passenger ticket. But Safety is our primary concern, isn't it ?.................................isn't it?
Both the LAE and Captain seemed to take a look, whether it didn't register, who knows?
