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QF mandates Vaccine

Old 28th Sep 2021, 20:59
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https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/27/sing...bad-thing.html
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 02:55
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My main point, which may have been lost in my attempt at comparison, is that mandates are in line with the beliefs and choices of up to 92% of the adult population. Thus in a democracy, that doesn't seem heavy handed
Agreed. In the early years of the last century it is aid that 25% of our deaths were due to TB. A mandatory program was put in place to try and eradicate the disease, remember in the '50's as a child having to front up to the government caravan when it visited town for the mandatory chest x-ray.

Didn't stop me being in contact with TB, chap a few doors down in flight school died from TB and a bunch of us had to have tests, mine came up positive, false as it turned out, merely showed I had been in contact with TB.
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 06:30
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Originally Posted by Grumpy retiree View Post
We should open up ASAP now that everybody has had the opportunity to be vaccinated.and let Covid rip.
And that's the issue. The difference between available and actually being able to get it in your arm. The vaccines are only just starting to arrive in the regions now.
I don't believe there are that many antivaxers, 1 or 2 percent at best. There are plenty of anti mandate, I am one of them. If we are going to mandate it do it right at government level, "everybody". It's not up to business and our employees to police it, nor will we.

Somebody mentioned something about trolling when it was said that there are ICU staff unvaccinated. That's a fact, about a third of them in SA and WA, because they have been infected and suffer long covid during the VIC campaign and their position still stands, they won't be getting infected a second time. 1 in 3 and 1 in 6 severe.
It's also important to see how NSW manages, it has double the ICU capacity and resources of any other state, if it is overwhelmed, we certainly will be.


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Old 29th Sep 2021, 07:00
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Originally Posted by Grumpy retiree View Post
We should open up ASAP now that everybody has had the opportunity to be vaccinated.and let Covid rip.
It will improve the gene pool.
Anti-vax movement is a low point in Western civilisation.
The problem is that politics is the science of the possible. If the decision was open up and, if an anti-vaxer needs a ventilator, send him home to die, that would be fine.
Simple fact is that won't happen. So "let it rip" means letting our ICUs fill up to overflow, our healthcare professionals be overloaded, and elective surgeries get put back indefinatley- and remember, a hip replacement for someone virtually imobile with out it is "elective".

I'm not saying that at some point it itsn't inevitable- I AM saying we need the highest levels of vaccination and lowest levels of cases we can practically achieve before we do.

Last edited by Wizofoz; 29th Sep 2021 at 11:18.
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 08:55
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Originally Posted by Thirsty View Post
Social media or Unsocial media?.

Having said that, the tinpot wannabe rulers of the states scoring cheap political points at the expense of mental and financial health of entire states, advised by unelected health experts that cannot learn from previous pandemics to give sound advice will find their future at the ballot box very shaky. Aussies, by their very nature, do not like to be told what to do. That psyche is deeply embedded in their convict roots. The 'up yours' vote will be significant.

Image of an electoral campaign of Clive and Pauline baking pumpkin scones comes to mind. Let that sear your brain!
Thanks I'm glad someone is taking the time to talk sense in this madness. My daughter is a ethical medical malpractice lawyer she and her family have had the vaccine. The good ones have no reason to make up BS story's to get your money. Some people believe the government would rather give us money than have us work 7 days a week spend it in the high tax revenue pub, and pay tax? Think about that.
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 10:25
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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
And that's the issue. The difference between available and actually being able to get it in your arm. The vaccines are only just starting to arrive in the regions now.
Thatís bullshit. I know for several reasons, 1. Because I live in the regions and I was vaccinated nearly right at the start of the whole campaign, and 2. Iíve been flying the fecking things around for months and months now along with the health staff to the tiny communities to get people vaccinated.
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 10:38
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
That’s bullshit. I know for several reasons, 1. Because I live in the regions and I was vaccinated nearly right at the start of the whole campaign, and 2. I’ve been flying the fecking things around for months and months now along with the health staff to the tiny communities to get people vaccinated.
Really! In what state

I don't mean to challenge you, but if you have delivered vaccines with someone to administer it and we don't know about it, I want to know why.
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 11:10
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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
Really! In what state

I don't mean to challenge you, but if you have delivered vaccines with someone to administer it and we don't know about it, I want to know why.
Queensland.

If anyone didnít know about it, then itís because youíve been walking around with your eyes shut (in Qld at least).
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 11:18
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
Queensland.

If anyone didnít know about it, then itís because youíve been walking around with your eyes shut (in Qld at least).
I have two groups remaining, under 60 Pfizer first shot, Jerramungup WA scheduled for OCT 20 and the other group is in SA scheduled for Oct 22
So perhaps you should have qualified your post before you called it bullshit, apology accepted.
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 14:01
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Originally Posted by Xeptu View Post
I have two groups remaining, under 60 Pfizer first shot, Jerramungup WA scheduled for OCT 20 and the other group is in SA scheduled for Oct 22
So perhaps you should have qualified your post before you called it bullshit, apology accepted.
Perhaps you could have avoided a rather broad incorrect statement. Apology accepted

The vaccine has still been in the regions for a long time. Just that thereís a bunch of misinformation about the AstraZeneca vaccine that is causing delays in people wanting Pfizer, because they canít do maths and work out that the chances of having an adverse reaction are so much lower than catching the virus and suffering greater health consequences from it.
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 20:57
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
Perhaps you could have avoided a rather broad incorrect statement. Apology accepted
Fair Call! although my post did make specific reference to SA and WA albeit not clear reference to the regions.. Our states have been slower than the east coast generally because NSW really needed those vaccines, I think we all have sufficient supply now and the rollout is continuing, SA is on track but WA is a massive area, the forecast is for April but ya never know it might be achieved by Christmas. That will be a pleasant surprise. Both States have significant issues with respect to hospital preparedness, including ICU/CCU staffing.

How's Glady's getting on?
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 21:30
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It looks like sheís getting on sensibly and doing just fine. The only one whoís actually sticking to the national plan. Removing restrictions for those who are vaccinated and accepting that weíll never get rid of it.
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Old 29th Sep 2021, 23:34
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Unvaxxed pilots are safer!Article in todays Washington Times:-An Army flight surgeon is recommending that the Pentagon grounds all pilots who took the COVID shot due to their risk of cardiac episodes during flight and other documented adverse reactions.

Lieutenant Colonel Theresa Long, a Brigade Surgeon for the 1st Aviation Brigade Ft. Rucker, explained in an affidavit drafted under the Military Whistleblower Protection Act how perfectly healthy pilots have been suffering a myriad of adverse side effects, including myocarditis.
Firstly, Covid also causes Myocarditis and Pericarditis, which are hallmarks of viral infections, which does damage heart muscle. It is not unusual for this to happen and a number of males under 30 who had heart MRI post covid had been found to have suffered some heart inflammation with some having permanent damage.

I know a number of pilots now who are grounded indefinitely with long covid. No-one I know in the pilot community is grounded due to a vaccine reaction, I'd be suprised if there is not one, but I haven't heard of it.

I know a number of heart attack and other heart issue survivors that are now fully vaccinated for a number of months, being some of the first to get it due to their vulnerability to covid. All are perfectly healthy. No cardiologist I know has advised against vaccination and are all vaccinated themselves. They are aware of the minuscule chance of reaction to the vaccine, it's nothing new, we talked about it here ages ago.

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Old 30th Sep 2021, 00:21
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Originally Posted by Dr Kildare View Post
Article in todays Washington Times:-An Army flight surgeon is recommending that the Pentagon grounds all pilots who took the COVID shot due to their risk of cardiac episodes during flight and other documented adverse reactions.

Lieutenant Colonel Theresa Long, a Brigade Surgeon for the 1st Aviation Brigade Ft. Rucker, explained in an affidavit drafted under the Military Whistleblower Protection Act how perfectly healthy pilots have been suffering a myriad of adverse side effects, including myocarditis.
This is fake news, it is 2021 you should know by now not to believe everything you read on the internet
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Old 30th Sep 2021, 00:52
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Great job of faking, if it is a fake. Are you saying that you are sure that Teresa C. Long, MD, MPH, FS does not exist at all, or if she does exist, that she did not depose the affidavit that has been posted? Nothing would surprise me.

(I make no comment on the opinion expressed in the affidavit, fake or otherwise.)
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Old 30th Sep 2021, 01:02
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Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
Great job of faking, if it is a fake. Are you saying that you are sure that Teresa C. Long, MD, MPH, FS does not exist at all, or if she does exist, that she did not depose the affidavit that has been posted? Nothing would surprise me.

(I make no comment on the opinion expressed in the affidavit, fake or otherwise.)
AN ARMY FLIGHT SURGEON- as in one. There are outlier individuals in every profession. I fly with an Airline pilot whi believes in chem-trails.
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Old 30th Sep 2021, 01:11
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I'd say it's not fake, just misguided. The side effects of the mRNA vaccines are well known, including the elevated chance of pericarditis/myocarditis in males under 30 years old. This seems to be linked to high testosterone levels. Like the clotting issue its rare for it to be of significance, otherwise numerous in that age group around the world world be dying of it now. Inflammation of the heart is actually proving more common than thought with more heart MRIs being conducted finding it and the results of it in studies unrelated to covid (and some related). Mild inflammation will just cause tiredness, no long term damage, as with anything severe cases can cause damage, but you'd be well aware if it by then, chest pains and shortness of breath.

PS; If you are really worried about it, get Astra Zeneca, no issues with clotting in under 30s and not mRNA based.
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Old 30th Sep 2021, 01:26
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I laugh at the irony of the unqualified making categorical statements about the opinions of the qualified.

Don't get me wrong: It may well be that Teresa C. Long, MD, MPH, FS does not exist, or is 'misguided' or an 'outlier' or batshit crazy in fact. I just laugh that you presumably expect us to accept your assertions to that effect. The affidavit - fake or otherwise - acknowledges that correlation does not amount to causation. But it also explains - with some force in my view - who bears the burden of disproving causation, and why.

And the history of medical science is not typified by the unerring unanimity of opinion or the constant correctness of the opinions of the majority.

I have to reiterate that I doubt there are many pilots making contributions to these kinds of threads who've had anything to do with CASA Avmed.
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Old 30th Sep 2021, 01:36
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The original poster says that somehow this proves that vaccination is less safe than not, which is misguided, and that is what I was alluding to, not the army surgeons claims. Although a cardiologist I know may have used those words in describing the doctors claim. Heart inflammation in not easy to diagnose without MRI, ultrasound etc, hence why this doctor is calling for it. It's even harder to attribute causation without knowing what is going on. This is just a supposition from this person as to what might be happening being taken out as some sort of anti vaccination expose. Without an actual study of the group involved it could just be a cluster within a certain area etc. no related to the vaccine or even covid, just something picked up by the by because they were being extra vigilant for vaccine reactions. But that's up to them to figure out, it could be the tip of some conspiracy and all mRNA recipients are walking around with double the heart volume now, but the actual studies have not seen this yet (of course they are part of the conspiracy).
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Old 30th Sep 2021, 01:42
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Then what do you say of the substance of the reasoning in the affidavit? It seems to me the reasoning is, effect, that 'something' is happening, which could be caused by the vaccination and, until that causal connection has been confidently dismissed or confirmed, 'heads up' everyone. I'm guessing that weight of opinion will be that the data show that the potential consequences of not being vaccinated are worse than being vaccinated, so the vaccinations should continue. But that's a different albeit related question to whether the vaccinated army pilots should continue to don flying suits and do their rotary wing thing.
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