VA pilots threatened with AWARD wages

[slice]

Captain BB, the AFAP published this in their communications. This is hours per 4 Week roster. Minimum hard payments of 5 hours for working a day off are gone. Min guarantee is set at 57.5 hours (actually 56.75 as there is a .75 credit for online courses) gives a new base salary of CAPT $200330 {no annual leave) $203412 (4 weeks annual leave) FO $130065 (no leave) $132066 (4 weeks leave). DDO start at 2130 prev night so hard credit from 2200. Worst case - never exceed Min credit and no leave taken 16.33% pay cut. Unlikely but there it is.

[turbantime]

Originally Posted by slice

Worst case - never exceed Min credit and no leave taken 16.33% pay cut. Unlikely but there it is.

That number is what some guys are bleating about. What they fail to recognise is that if the hours don’t support the current 69 hour EBA, company continues on with MOU. If unions deny MOU extensions, company stand people down. So either way, you’ll get paid the same amount.

[Packvalve]

Originally Posted by slice

Worst case - never exceed Min credit and no leave taken 16.33% pay cut. Unlikely but there it is.

Good to see someone comparing apples with apples rather than comparing apples with citrus (Award) as one of the Unions did. However, I think your worst case scenario is more likely than not given they are currently increasing pilot numbers, but not flying hours.

[DirectAnywhere]

Is it zero pay for sick leave if you're above 57.5? If so, that's a disgrace.

Nothing like encouraging people to come to work sick.

[turbantime]

Originally Posted by Packvalve

However, I think your worst case scenario is more likely than not given they are currently increasing pilot numbers, but not flying hours.

In which case the company would still find a way to pay you less via MOUs and/or stand downs.

[Steely Dan]

...$200k, 1% pay rises and no credit for Reserve duties....mmmm. If this is voted up, it sets the path for the entire industry.

[Packvalve]

Originally Posted by turbantime

That number is what some guys are bleating about. What they fail to recognise is that if the hours don’t support the current 69 hour EBA, company continues on with MOU. If unions deny MOU extensions, company stand people down. So either way, you’ll get paid the same amount.

Sorry Tim, this makes about as much sense as your responses at the Town Halls.

[turbantime]

Originally Posted by Packvalve

Sorry Tim, this makes about as much sense as your responses at the Town Halls.

Yeah cool, in the absence of a proper retort, resort to name calling. Keep screaming from the balcony, no one is listening.

[murder most fowl]

Do QF get 0 credit for standby if not called out? Seem to recall AFAP writing this recently.

13 DDO for less than 65 credit hours is a good thing and will make the company think about not stuffing a roster with standby.

Once again, if the work is not there, do you expect to be paid in full to a higher minimum guarantee? Yeah its a pay cut if you are restricted to 57 hours pay compared to 2019, but if that's all you are flying in 12 months time then there are bigger problems at hand.

Just had a look; QF receive no credit for standby and minimum 4 hours credit for the first day only. VA mimimum 4 hours credit for every standby day used.

[SOPS]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

...$200k, 1% pay rises and no credit for Reserve duties....mmmm. If this is voted up, it sets the path for the entire industry.

I know where you are coming from. But can I suggest 200k to an unemployed pilot might look pretty good.

[sandersonpab]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

...$200k, 1% pay rises and no credit for Reserve duties....mmmm. If this is voted up, it sets the path for the entire industry.

Spot on. Alan Joyce is going to be waiting with bated breath.

[sandersonpab]

Originally Posted by SOPS

I know where you are coming from. But can I suggest 200k to an unemployed pilot might look pretty good.

So are you saying that when you return to flying, you'd be happy earning what you were earning ten years ago?

[PoppaJo]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

...$200k, 1% pay rises and no credit for Reserve duties....mmmm. If this is voted up, it sets the path for the entire industry.

Half the industry is already there. I mean the Star is about 15 years behind in remuneration, Rex uses that as its pawn and takes another 10% off. That place will probably struggle to make money so forget any increases there for ever and ever. The star bosses will soon think they are paying too much! Will bite them on the @rse when everyone pisses off later this decade for the big twins when dollars are upped abroad.

Short Term haircuts folks.

[Pucken Pilot]

Originally Posted by sandersonpab

No company is going to go to FW after 2 rounds of negotiating lol.. the first offer will always be low, although it seems the subsequent offer made by Virgin was even worse.. Pilots needs to stand up for themselves. I agree with the OP, call their bluff, that's the only way they're going to come back with better terms.
Consider contributing some $$ into the kitty and taking all the info to a lawyer to get some impartial legal advice. It's shocking the unions are endorsing it after the second round of negotiations.. they sound like they're over it too..

Virgin went to Fair Work seeking "Bargaining Assistance" after LESS than 2 rounds of negotiations with the Cabin Crew EA, and got their changes, so why would they come back with better terms to Pilots? What leverage are Pilots going to use to stand up for themselves... PIA in a pandemic after exiting Administration?

[sandersonpab]

Originally Posted by Pucken Pilot

Virgin went to Fair Work seeking "Bargaining Assistance" after LESS than 2 rounds of negotiations with the Cabin Crew EA, and got their changes

"Bargaining Assistance" is exactly that, it's not the same thing as applying to Fair Work to terminate an EA. The latter is a very lengthy road, according to my discussions with Fair Work.

[turbantime]

Originally Posted by sandersonpab

"Bargaining Assistance" is exactly that, it's not the same thing as applying to Fair Work to terminate an EA. The latter is a very lengthy road, according to my discussions with Fair Work.

Except the ‘bargaining assistance’ was the commissioner writing a letter directly to cabin crew stating that a no vote would meet the requirements for the termination of their EBA.

I do not want to see us go down this path as the alternative to this EBA are worse conditions, either through an alternative EBA (worse than this one) or the award. There is no way that we’ll be able to keep the current EBA after exiting administration and in the middle of a pandemic.

[Servo]

And the end of the day, vote no if it doesn't meet your lifestyle/remuneration expectations. If enough people vote no, then it will go to Fair Work. I have no doubt VA will go to Fair Work and go their hardest. Time will tell.

If it gets up, then you will have to live with it for the next 2 years and go from there. Good luck.

[sandersonpab]

Originally Posted by turbantime

Except the ‘bargaining assistance’ was the commissioner writing a letter directly to cabin crew stating that a no vote would meet the requirements for the termination of their EBA.

It would meet the requirements for an application to be made, it's not the same as an order to terminate the EA. Also, you have to remember that there is not much difference between the Cabin Crew's EA and the award, but there is a substantial difference between the pilots' EA and the award. As someone said earlier, it's a very high bar and a difficult, time consuming and expensive exercise for Virgin. Fear mongering at its finest, I say.

[Pucken Pilot]

Originally Posted by sandersonpab

"Bargaining Assistance" is exactly that, it's not the same thing as applying to Fair Work to terminate an EA. The latter is a very lengthy road, according to my discussions with Fair Work.

Your statement was "No company is going to go to FW after 2 rounds of negotiating lol."

I was just pointing out that Virgin sought assistance from Fair Work on the Cabin Crew EA prior to 2 rounds of negotiating being completed.

Apologies if facts aren't welcome.

[sandersonpab]

Originally Posted by Pucken Pilot

Your statement was "No company is going to go to FW after 2 rounds of negotiating lol.".

They requested assistance, it wasn't an application to terminate. There's a difference.