Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > PPRuNe Worldwide > Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific
Reload this Page >

VA pilots threatened with AWARD wages

Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

VA pilots threatened with AWARD wages

Old 7th Aug 2021, 03:54
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Location: Earth
Posts: 20
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Where was the Bain hatred during administration? I don't remember any charities trying to buy VA. Any mug would have wanted EBA's sorted quick smart and shock horror, a hair cut. It's business and VA was a bad business.

murder most fowl is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2021, 04:06
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Most locked down city in the world
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Just to throw my 5c in gordon, the gun that's pointed at us by the company is a pistol, come Monday 5pm the FWA may come out with a AK-47.
Hopefully no triggers are pulled, we get pistol whipped and we can recover from that.
Turnleft080 is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2021, 07:23
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Kichin
Posts: 798
Received 97 Likes on 42 Posts
Originally Posted by Turnleft080
Just to throw my 5c in gordon, the gun that's pointed at us by the company is a pistol, come Monday 5pm the FWA may come out with a AK-47.
Hopefully no triggers are pulled, we get pistol whipped and we can recover from that.
Well good luck to us all either way. I hope the pistol whipping wonít leave you all softened up so much that you abandon the fight next time around when our services will be at a premium.
gordonfvckingramsay is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2021, 10:51
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BBN
Posts: 936
Received 48 Likes on 26 Posts
Please explain how voting an EBA down on a high capacity jet operation with a no vote ends up with the employees being put on the award! You VA guys are messed up thinking that can happen.
SHVC is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2021, 11:02
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aus
Age: 42
Posts: 376
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by SHVC
Please explain how voting an EBA down on a high capacity jet operation with a no vote ends up with the employees being put on the award! You VA guys are messed up thinking that can happen.
It doesnít, thatís not the issue and that has been explained. What can happen is that any future offer from the company will be compared against the award, this would most likely be worse than the current offer. Fair work mediation would mean power taken away from negotiators as all company has to do is prove that itís better than the award.
turbantime is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2021, 11:10
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BBN
Posts: 936
Received 48 Likes on 26 Posts
VA I’m sure are not at a point where FWA would get involved or even make any kind of determination. Ours has been going for over 3 yrs without FWA even been thought of. You guys have been negotiating for all of 5minutes and think FWA are going to automatically determine an outcome.
SHVC is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2021, 11:29
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Aus
Age: 42
Posts: 376
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by SHVC
VA Iím sure are not at a point where FWA would get involved or even make any kind of determination. Ours has been going for over 3 yrs without FWA even been thought of. You guys have been negotiating for all of 5minutes and think FWA are going to automatically determine an outcome.
But that negotiation wasnít after exiting administration or during a pandemic though. Rightly or wrongly, Bain approached FWC after CC vote. The commissioner sounded off a warning to CC. Precedent has been set.

Last edited by turbantime; 7th Aug 2021 at 11:47.
turbantime is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2021, 11:38
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 243
Received 22 Likes on 10 Posts
Originally Posted by SHVC
VA Iím sure are not at a point where FWA would get involved or even make any kind of determination. Ours has been going for over 3 yrs without FWA even been thought of. You guys have been negotiating for all of 5minutes and think FWA are going to automatically determine an outcome.
So youíre not part of the Virgin Narrow Body operation, but youíre happy to pontificate on what the FWA (sic) will do.

Virgin negotiations have been going on slightly longer than 5 minutes. Since August 2019 in fact.

And maybe we will go with what the AFAP have been saying - considered legal advice and multiple updates on the risks of a No vote.

If you think that Virgin pilots will end up on the award - then youíre as ignorant as those trying to drive a no vote through this rhetoric.

As multiple posters have stated - the threat isnít the award. Itís the that if any sort of arbitration was to end up at the Fair Work COMMISSION, then they will compare what the Company is offering to the Award. The employees will lose any sort of bargaining power and the deal will almost certainly get worse.

Whatís on offer is $200k, 57.5 hours OT trigger and 12/13 days off in 4 weeks.

Some of the other parts of the deal are pretty ordinary. But so is 18 months into a pandemic with no clear end in sight.

So I will take the deal on offer knowing that if I fly 70 hours, I get paid the same, and when things get busy, Iíve got more time off.
Colonel_Klink is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2021, 11:54
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 567
Received 70 Likes on 23 Posts
I donít want to turn this into a QF thread (god knows there are enough) but would this not be similar to the QF Long Haul EA that went to a FWC Determination after the lockout?

They did not compare our existing EA with the Award, it was compared against the companyís last offer. The FWC stated that they did not want to drive any major changes, those should only be agreed to by both parties. Instead they took some of the claims of each side and came back with a Determination which was little different from our existing EA.

I ask this as a genuine question, not suggesting I know what would happen. Clearly exiting administration and a new owner make the VA scenario unique.
Beer Baron is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2021, 00:25
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: In a box
Posts: 348
Received 12 Likes on 5 Posts
Either way we will probably know after 5pm tomorrow what the vote result will be. Company will then continue a course of action from there.
Servo is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2021, 01:32
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Aussie and US
Posts: 44
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Whatever the result I hope all VA guys/girls end up with a good result. Best EBA plus maximum pilots reinstated.
LH777 is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2021, 09:28
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: In the Cab
Posts: 126
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Reinstating pilots and standing others down?
Double_Clutch is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2021, 10:12
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: In a house
Posts: 402
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
A fair work arbitration would be a good result. It has to meet the better off overall conditions of the fair work act.

The only way it can reduce your conditions is under the Covid exemption and mutually agreed to by both parties.

To get an arbitration however would be tricky. It took Qantas grounding the airline for it to get to that point. After PIA.
Blueskymine is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2021, 11:02
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Blueskymine
A fair work arbitration would be a good result. It has to meet the better off overall conditions of the fair work act.

The only way it can reduce your conditions is under the Covid exemption and mutually agreed to by both parties.

To get an arbitration however would be tricky. It took Qantas grounding the airline for it to get to that point. After PIA.
Small problem with that... the Better Off Overall Test is a comparison with the Award not the VA NB Agreement... the last thing VA Pilots or any employee group wants is arbitration or conciliation at Fair Work... especially in present climate.

The Cabin Crew recommendation is a sobering read...

Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Fair Work CC Recommendation.pdf (173.8 KB, 20 views)

Last edited by Blue Ruin; 8th Aug 2021 at 11:25. Reason: insert link
Blue Ruin is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2021, 08:51
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Most locked down city in the world
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Servo
Either way we will probably know after 5pm tomorrow what the vote result will be. Company will then continue a course of action from there.
That time has come and gone. 94% participants with 73% in the affirmative.

Last edited by Turnleft080; 9th Aug 2021 at 09:02.
Turnleft080 is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2021, 08:52
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Earth
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Yeah perhaps. But the CC with a few concessions took a 2 year pay freeze. Hardly what we are being dealt.
SierraZuluGolf is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2021, 08:54
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Earth
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
We are so soft. Sorry everyone.
SierraZuluGolf is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2021, 09:05
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Most locked down city in the world
Posts: 546
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by non_state_actor
That was the participation rate not the count.
Thanks corrected.
Turnleft080 is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2021, 09:10
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: At the buffet
Age: 49
Posts: 84
Received 7 Likes on 3 Posts
Why the comparison to flight attendants?

Pastor of Muppets is offline  
Old 9th Aug 2021, 10:04
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: BBN
Posts: 936
Received 48 Likes on 26 Posts
Step two if Bains plan has been completed.
SHVC is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.