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Qantas...Post COVID

Old 21st May 2021, 05:49
  #261 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ruprecht View Post
Random thought:

Can Qantas post a profit with crew stood down.
Iím sure they can but it would be highly unethical.

Imo, the stand down provisions should be null and void as soon as the company posts any kind of profit. But what Keg said.
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Old 21st May 2021, 07:27
  #262 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fonz121 View Post
Iím sure they can but it would be highly unethical.

Imo, the stand down provisions should be null and void as soon as the company posts any kind of profit. But what Keg said.
Would being unethical worry them?
Im guessing they would bleat about their great management skills & convince everyone what a great job they are doing whilst lining their pockets at the same time.
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Old 21st May 2021, 22:23
  #263 (permalink)  
 
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For those that got their EBA in pre COVID (LH and SH) in the unlikely event they are still pushing wage freezes by the time the next one comes around they are looking at 14 or 15% pay rises in the period 2019 to 2025

J* and the links are looking at 10% for the same period all due to the change in “wage policy” all while inflation figure will be around 15%.

so the mainline guys will just about maintain salary to cost of living over the period. The rest won’t. It is amazing what can be done with the stroke of a pen
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Old 21st May 2021, 22:39
  #264 (permalink)  
 
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There must be a few PIA proponents in the AFAP feeling rather childlike and foolish now.

Well done. Great stratergy. 32 years past and still nothing learnt.

MCD
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Old 21st May 2021, 22:56
  #265 (permalink)  
 
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If you think profit or no profit has anything to do with the legality of stand down you need to consult a barrister.
Hint. Itís not a major factor.
The pay freeze is a red herring.
Many pilots have already had 2 years of a 100% pay cut in the hundreds of thousands.The compound loss of money yet alone struggling to feed a family or pay a mortgage.The treatment of pilots by Qantas is disgusting, particularly given certain pilot managers havenít done a single day of stand down and have little work to perform.
The lack of people giving a f$#@& when they return will be enlightened for them.When you treat people like s&$# then you deserve it.Donít suspect they care given they are alright jack.
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Old 22nd May 2021, 10:09
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Transition Layer View Post
Unlike LCC pilots chasing quick commands and measly bucks, we QF people like to look at the long term.
Is it hard to type with your head jammed entirely up your own ass?
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Old 22nd May 2021, 10:32
  #267 (permalink)  
 
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Unlike LCC pilots chasing quick commands and measly bucks, we QF people like to look at the long term notes " Transition Layer".

The simplistic structure of that one sentence unfortunately says it all.

With a post worded as such, you can only asume its a wind up.

MCD

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Old 22nd May 2021, 10:58
  #268 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ManillaChillaDilla View Post
Unlike LCC pilots chasing quick commands and measly bucks, we QF people like to look at the long term notes " Transition Layer".

The simplistic structure of that one sentence unfortunately says it all.

With a post worded as such, you can only asume its a wind up.

MCD
A wind up or just a product of the fact that it takes around 30 years to long haul command? Most qantas pilots I know make bids tactically because the pay scales and promotions do not represent a linear pay rise. The days of taking the first upgrade available ended over a decade ago. Why? Because under normal circumstances a senior 4 engined S/O would earn far more money for significantly fewer duty hours than their colleagues of similar seniority who took FO positions in short haul
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Old 22nd May 2021, 11:18
  #269 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by das Uber Soldat View Post
Is it hard to type with your head jammed entirely up your own ass?
Best post ever.

By the way Transition Layer, if you donít want people like myself posting on a public forum about a topic concerning Qantas, suggest you take it somewhere else.
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Old 22nd May 2021, 22:42
  #270 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by FightDeck View Post
If you think profit or no profit has anything to do with the legality of stand down you need to consult a barrister.
Hint. Itís not a major factor.
The pay freeze is a red herring.
Many pilots have already had 2 years of a 100% pay cut in the hundreds of thousands.The compound loss of money yet alone struggling to feed a family or pay a mortgage.The treatment of pilots by Qantas is disgusting, particularly given certain pilot managers havenít done a single day of stand down and have little work to perform.
The lack of people giving a f$#@& when they return will be enlightened for them.When you treat people like s&$# then you deserve it.Donít suspect they care given they are alright jack.
This applies to everyone,not only pilots but what you have said in your post is spot on,they dont give a s&$# about anyone..
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Old 23rd May 2021, 03:06
  #271 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno View Post
Best post ever.

By the way Transition Layer, if you donít want people like myself posting on a public forum about a topic concerning Qantas, suggest you take it somewhere else.
I must have hit a raw nerve!

Iíd love to find another forum without you stalking Qantas threads morno, but itís also hard to see with my head up my arse.
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Old 23rd May 2021, 05:32
  #272 (permalink)  
Keg

Nunc est bibendum
 
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Keg’s Law: The longer a PPRuNe discussion about Qantas goes on the greater chance there is of it turning into a mainline v JQ stoush.
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Old 23rd May 2021, 15:26
  #273 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Fonz121 View Post
Iím sure they can but it would be highly unethical.

Imo, the stand down provisions should be null and void as soon as the company posts any kind of profit. But what Keg said.
Really???? So, the company is supposed to keep paying or keep on the books, people who have no work to do and are not likely to until 2022.... THEN, having made them redundant, they MUST employ them again if they make 'any kind of profit' - OK, so if they make $1.00c profit, you reckon they should re-employ them all, even if there's still no work for them.

Seriously, I wonder what sort of feather-bedded bubble some people live in. Qantas is a publicly listed company, they are ultimately required to produce a return on invested capital by the shareholders. No company can be held to guarantee re-employment if they make 'any kind of profit'. That is simply la-la land and completely unrealistic....... apply this to ANY other business, for instance, if you owned shares in a restaurant chain, with half the restaurants closed across the country because of, gee, let me think, a months long pandemic - would you want the chain to go bust and lose your investment because they just kept staff on when there was no prospect of work for a year or more.

No business can be expected to do that, no business can survive by doing that.

Need I remind anyone that VA kept putting staff on and putting staff on and negotiating EBA after EBA with increased wages and in some cases, zero productivity increase, the shareholders swallowed it over and over again while billions were spent on frivolous items, aircraft leases were exorbitant, bonuses paid every year and what happened in the end....... then they restarted and got rid of all but 6000 of their staff....
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Old 23rd May 2021, 22:17
  #274 (permalink)  
 
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Qantas is a publicly listed company, they are ultimately required to produce a return on invested capital by the shareholders
I apologise if I am wrong but I always thought Qantas was an airline and their primary purpose was to provide an "airline service". Since when were they some type of investment company with return on capital to shareholders being their primary goal?
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Old 23rd May 2021, 23:00
  #275 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by John Citizen View Post
I apologise if I am wrong but I always thought Qantas was an airline and their primary purpose was to provide an "airline service". Since when were they some type of investment company with return on capital to shareholders being their primary goal?
July 1995.
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Old 23rd May 2021, 23:39
  #276 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by AerialPerspective View Post
Really???? So, the company is supposed to keep paying or keep on the books, people who have no work to do and are not likely to until 2022.... THEN, having made them redundant, they MUST employ them again if they make 'any kind of profit' - OK, so if they make $1.00c profit, you reckon they should re-employ them all, even if there's still no work for them.
No-one has been made redundant, so no-one has to be re-employed. All stood down crew are still employed, just not getting paid. Important difference.

I know several long-term stood down crew who would welcome redundancy at the moment just to try and gain some certainty. Or perhaps more accurately, they would be seeking to remove uncertainty.

Last edited by ruprecht; 24th May 2021 at 01:36.
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Old 23rd May 2021, 23:55
  #277 (permalink)  
 
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I agree the treatment of staff has been woeful, I can understand stand downs of 3 months but when you are telling people there will be no useful work for 3 years you should do the right thing and allow those who want it to take redundancy. Saying you won’t do that as you will need the pilots in 3 years time is just appalling, turns my stomach every time we get an email from management thanking us for being so resilient, I was only stood down for 3 months and that was stressful enough, I feel so sorry for those still with the uncertainty. I am not saying Qantas is responsible for this situation but they could have definitely been more proactive in providing options for the worst effected crew, I couldn’t care less about a 2 year pay freeze, it is inevitable in the current environment.
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Old 24th May 2021, 00:36
  #278 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
I agree the treatment of staff has been woeful, I can understand stand downs of 3 months but when you are telling people there will be no useful work for 3 years you should do the right thing and allow those who want it to take redundancy. Saying you wonít do that as you will need the pilots in 3 years time is just appalling, turns my stomach every time we get an email from management thanking us for being so resilient, I was only stood down for 3 months and that was stressful enough, I feel so sorry for those still with the uncertainty. I am not saying Qantas is responsible for this situation but they could have definitely been more proactive in providing options for the worst effected crew, I couldnít care less about a 2 year pay freeze, it is inevitable in the current environment.
For good or for bad, the company is limited to acting within the Agreement. Look at clause 15.10.1 and 15.6.
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Old 24th May 2021, 00:41
  #279 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
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I wonder how many takers they'd get if they offered another round of voluntary redundancies to the Longhaul Pilot group nowÖ.
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Old 24th May 2021, 00:55
  #280 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by theheadmaster View Post
For good or for bad, the company is limited to acting within the Agreement. Look at clause 15.10.1 and 15.6.
No, the company can choose not to keep you stood down.
Like they have done for every other problem prior to CV.
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