Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Jetstar and Ballina again

Old 19th Apr 2021, 11:14
  #121 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 45
Posts: 498
About Avalon:

https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/defaul...ary-2020_0.pdf

Seems like they want to change the airspace classification.
jmmoric is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2021, 11:21
  #122 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 3,917
Who’s “they”?

It seems like the regulator (CASA) is now so bereft of expertise that it won’t do anything unless a proposal is submitted to it by (in this case) Airservices.

Must be terribly frustrating for CASA to be sitting there, chewing its corporate finger nails, unable to make a regulatory decision unless someone outside the regulator recommends the decision be made.

The subsequent inquiry will be comedy gold, albeit predictable.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2021, 11:36
  #123 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 45
Posts: 498
Originally Posted by Lead Balloon View Post
.....
Well, one company has presented the case to the authorities now.... so now the authorities cannot disregard it, they'll have to make a decision based on it.
jmmoric is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2021, 12:10
  #124 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 3,917
Is the “company” one that continues to operate HCRPT in and out of Avalon? If yes, “the company” cannot disregard the implications of “the case” of which it is aware. A regulator too incompetent to deal with risks of which “the company” is aware does not absolve “the company” of liability.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 19th Apr 2021, 13:08
  #125 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Qatar
Posts: 51
A regulator too incompetent to deal with risks of which “the company” is aware does not absolve “the company” of liability.
Nor does it absolve the regulator of liability. Incompetence is not a defence.
Denied Justice is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2021, 02:50
  #126 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 3,917
I agree with you DJ.

You ask: “What price do we put on risk?” Good question.

If no price is put on risk, all decision-making thereafter might as well be based on astrology. (In Australia, it’s based on politics. That’s why there’s an RFFS but no tower at Ballina.)

Folks like alphacentauri and UTR have put the arguments far better than I can.
Lead Balloon is offline  
Old 20th Apr 2021, 07:12
  #127 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Asia
Posts: 1,030
So are the big boys internally actually doing anything or talking about this? Or is all just on here only?

Do CPs not have any influence anymore on such matters?
wheels_down is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2021, 06:41
  #128 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 799
No because the CPs don't go anywhere near Ballina and seem to think that it must be just second rate crews that are the problem. Their solution is to just issue more notices and procedures on how the job should be done. Yesterday there was Jetstar, Virgin, Fly Pelican, QLink a corporate, helicopters, overflying GA , a warbird and circuit traffic all within the space of an hour. If there is no clear case for a tower now then there will never be one. Fortunately as LB has pointed out, the RFFS is on hand to rescue the survivors but only if the collision occurs within the airport perimeter.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2021, 07:26
  #129 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Oz
Posts: 1,140
The CPs of the world like Broomy are long gone. Can you imagine if one went up to Gareth, Jayne or whoever advising they wish to halt operations into xxx due to safety? Nobody would have the balls anyway.

Having worked for Ken way way back in the past. If I had a problem, or even an idea, I put it to him. A discussion always followed. It does not matter how far down the line you sit, your view was heard. CPs have connections to those that we down the line donít, and I like to think we made sone great progress with third party operators by working together.

Now, fast forward today, if I sent a email off now I would be classed as a nuisance. Management would probably see me as threat with my common sense ways of working and they would try and make my life more difficult. Half the reason why I based myself as far away from HQ as possible.

Last edited by PoppaJo; 21st Apr 2021 at 07:38.
PoppaJo is online now  
Old 21st Apr 2021, 08:50
  #130 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: NSW
Posts: 88
Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post

Now, fast forward today, if I sent a email off now I would be classed as a nuisance. Management would probably see me as threat with my common sense ways of working and they would try and make my life more difficult. Half the reason why I based myself as far away from HQ as possible.
Totally this. Best tactic Is that no one in the office knows who you are or what you think about. Sneak in quietly, do the minimum you have to do then, sneak off home again. Don't depend on anyone managing risks for you. It all comes down to you and your crew on the day. If it's too much, look after yourself and call in sick.

Last edited by cLeArIcE; 21st Apr 2021 at 16:50.
cLeArIcE is offline  
Old 21st Apr 2021, 09:53
  #131 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 2,761
Fortunately as LB has pointed out, the RFFS is on hand to rescue the survivors but only if the collision occurs within the airport perimeter.
Which begs the question why RFFS keep popping up at airports up all over Australia like weeds, yet when we hit the numbers for a Tower suddenly everyone starts wheeling out excuses why we don't need one, even though their own numbers justify it?
neville_nobody is online now  
Old 21st Apr 2021, 22:15
  #132 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: QLD - where drivers are yet to realise that the left lane goes to their destination too.
Posts: 2,661
Yesterday there was Jetstar, Virgin, Fly Pelican, QLink a corporate, helicopters, overflying GA , a warbird and circuit traffic all within the space of an hour.
How many Jetstar and Virgin, and how long were they in the terminal area? The others are irrelevant to this issue, unless they are in the air at the same time as the former. "Fly Pelican, QLink a corporate, helicopters, overflying GA , a warbird and circuit traffic" within an hour at any airport will never get a tower or airspace change. That's just healthy busy. What is the traffic in the 5-10 minutes the jet transits?
Traffic_Is_Er_Was is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2021, 00:46
  #133 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 799
Two helos and a lightie in the circuit, a -8 arriving while the jet was condicting a 10 mile straight in approach to 24. the fly pelican departed just after the jet arrived and a 737 arrived about 5-10 minutes after that. There was also the issue of Evans Head airspace being active with Centre not being sure which was active according to the NOTAM. They advised the Jetstar aircraft that they were about to enter restricted airspace which wasn't NOTAMed and had a lower limit of 5000' anyway. The forecast for the day indicated a north-easterly coming in around 2pm but the wind favoured 24 for the whole time. In case you are not aware, Ballina is short and narrow for jet aircraft and they don't need much tailwind before the numbers don't stack up. So the choice of runway is dictated by the wind not just what everyone else is doing. The icing on the cake is the company requirement to tanker fuel to max landing weight so any tailwind could potentially put that RFFS station to good use. When the Jetstar aircraft departed there was a 172 departing for the northern training area, a corporate that had just landed and was waiting for the bay the Jetstar aircraft was about to vacate, a CT-4 coming in from the west and another lightie coming in from Lismore and overflying Ballina for the Gold Coast. The lightie that was supposedly going to the northern traing area all of a sudden showed up in the circuit ahead of the CT-4. By the time all the lighties were on the ground and Jetstar took off the 737 had taxied out followed by the corporate that had arrived earlier. For RPT jet traffic there is a lot going on at Ballina and as the ATSB reports show the margin of error is not very wide. So I agree that it is busy but I don't agree that as it currently stands, that it is healthy.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2021, 07:47
  #134 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: QLD - where drivers are yet to realise that the left lane goes to their destination too.
Posts: 2,661
the jet was conducting a 10 mile straight in approach to 24
So the choice of runway is dictated by the wind not just what everyone else is doing.
the company requirement to tanker fuel to max landing weight so any tailwind....
Seems to me that the jet is more of a hazard to the locals, than the locals are to the jet.
Traffic_Is_Er_Was is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2021, 08:33
  #135 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 8,162
You're clutching at straws, Traffic.
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2021, 08:38
  #136 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 799
I would be more than happy to let the locals farnarkle around their short narrow runway and make them drive up the highway to Coolie.
Lookleft is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2021, 12:18
  #137 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: You live where
Posts: 467
Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
I would be more than happy to let the locals farnarkle around their short narrow runway and make them drive up the highway to Coolie.
The irony of that statement is that significant and disruptive works to improve the aerodrome by extending the runway, widening the runway or installing a parallel taxiway and taxiways to thresholds would meant that YBCG is a much more viable and attractive option.
missy is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2021, 13:38
  #138 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 40
Where on earth did you get you information traffic?

Tanker to max landing weight, you have to be kidding yourself there Champ.
LostontheLOC is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2021, 13:54
  #139 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia
Posts: 799
Tanker to max landing weight, you have to be kidding yourself there Champ.
Fly for Jetstar do you?
Lookleft is offline  
Old 22nd Apr 2021, 14:01
  #140 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 40
Originally Posted by Lookleft View Post
Fly for Jetstar do you?
Maybe, or maybe I am going to apply some common-sense to grasping claim... I guess we will never know hey?
LostontheLOC is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.