Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Jetstar and Ballina again

Old 4th Mar 2021, 07:53
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Roo
Actually some of the newer RPT jets in Australia do have ADSB-IN. Amongst other things we use to tag other AC & pull their GS for separation on final. But like you say, Sad it is not widespread yet.
Ah thatís good to hear, finally some progress
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 08:37
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Do we need such a collision in Australia for changes to happen?
Yes

(filler)
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 10:49
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Class E corridors/segments NE and SW with associated steps below the RNAV approaches to a suitable lower limit.
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 11:54
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by morno
Not true. In AUSTRALIA, RPT jets donít have ADSB in. I know Itís an option that is available on Airbus aircraft. Just that the tight ass airlines in Australia donít option it.
This is an Australian thread.

How many light aircraft in Australia currently have ADSB-OUT that donít also have Mode C?

If the lighties start to install el-cheapo dashboard ADSB-OUT without Mode C, then maybe that is something the airlines could look at. But at the moment they donít have it because there is no point. Nothing tight-arse about electing not to install a $300K (guessing) option in every jet for zero safety improvement.

As for the other posterís comment about 737ís and 320ís being half-decade old jets - and I can only speak for the 737NG - itís avionics are on par with the 777/787. The lack of ADSB-in is by choice, not heritage.

A subject beyond my ageing memory is that Australia somewhat rejected the ADSB-IN concept that was introduced in the USA. Someone with better knowledge may be able to fill us in on that.

The latest version of Jepessen FlightDeck Pro which runs on airline pilot iPads has the ability to display ADSB-IN traffic information, although it requires an aircraft receiver data connection to make it happen. On-dash el-cheapo ADSB-IN receivers donít meet certification requirements in airliners, sorry. But that might reduce the $300K per aircraft to $100K if they decide to go that way (guessing again).
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 21:18
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Derfred
This is an Australian thread.

How many light aircraft in Australia currently have ADSB-OUT that donít also have Mode C?

If the lighties start to install el-cheapo dashboard ADSB-OUT without Mode C, then maybe that is something the airlines could look at. But at the moment they donít have it because there is no point. Nothing tight-arse about electing not to install a $300K (guessing) option in every jet for zero safety improvement.

As for the other posterís comment about 737ís and 320ís being half-decade old jets - and I can only speak for the 737NG - itís avionics are on par with the 777/787. The lack of ADSB-in is by choice, not heritage.

A subject beyond my ageing memory is that Australia somewhat rejected the ADSB-IN concept that was introduced in the USA. Someone with better knowledge may be able to fill us in on that.

The latest version of Jepessen FlightDeck Pro which runs on airline pilot iPads has the ability to display ADSB-IN traffic information, although it requires an aircraft receiver data connection to make it happen. On-dash el-cheapo ADSB-IN receivers donít meet certification requirements in airliners, sorry. But that might reduce the $300K per aircraft to $100K if they decide to go that way (guessing again).
I donít know about you derfred, but if I could see the rego etc. of another aircraft instead of just a diamond with an altitude reference myself (by the way, remember how horizontally inaccurate they can be with just Mode C?), Iíd much rather the ADSB-In option. Every aircraft (pretty much) in Australia should have ADSB now, how would ADSB in not be beneficial?

$300k out of a $100m aeroplane, tell me thatís not being tight arse, when you have a huge improvement in situational awareness.
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Old 4th Mar 2021, 23:38
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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Drops, who do you think would care if a smoking crater could have been prevented if only it fit the funding model? There exists a real, present danger mixing transport jets with GA aircraft at busy uncontrolled airports. Either the industry should stop operating there or the government should, crazy though it might seem, take steps to address the need. They might even be able to deflect attention from their lying cow defence minister.
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Old 5th Mar 2021, 04:11
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by triadic
Only a full and proper investigation into any incident/accident can provide results and you are showing your biais (sic) in making such a statement.
Full and proper investigation. Most (all) ATSB investigations are taking a very long time, and in the ATC related ones, sadly they don't seem to access available data. TAAATS/Eurocat can't even replay all the possible data. The functionality exists, ASA didn't tick the Option box.

Originally Posted by triadic
Sadly I have observed that there is room for improvement in not only GA ops but also how some jet pilots operate into Glass G airfields.
A surveillance job for CASA. A targeted Line Operations Safety Audit (LOSA) for jet operations into Ballina.
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Old 5th Mar 2021, 23:47
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'Slight' drift.....

W H A A A T ? ?

Re ' TAAATS/Eurocat can't even replay all the possible data. The functionality exists, ASA didn't tick the option box'.
Now, there's an indicator of the 'mentality' of the time.........

Even in 'De Ole Days' of de OLD technology, the various tapes were kept for 30 days, under 'lock and key', .....then if not required they were re-cycled.

As was ALL 'paper-work' - Flight Progress Strips, 'Scratch Pads (Aeronautical Telecommunications Record - CA 71s to us, later revised to AF 71.....No difference) And any Journals from Supervisor desks - these were kept 'permanently'..
And the 'Golden Rule' - 'Thou Shall Not Rub Out'.......A line to be put thru any 'mistakes' and the correct info to be inserted alongside....Just in case......

Doesn't help 'Ballina type situations' at all, just sayin'.........

Last edited by Ex FSO GRIFFO; 6th Mar 2021 at 01:07.
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Old 6th Mar 2021, 08:54
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As I see it, this system is not very error tolerant. Big mistake, humans make errors and they must be managed.
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Old 7th Mar 2021, 04:45
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Has anyone had a look at the free iPhone APP called 'AvTraffic'. In most cases it identifies the Flight Number/Rego. Expand out the range to 30 miles and watch the list of aircraft in flight build.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 02:47
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Griffo, audio and paper records are still retained for 30 days. Recording of data from the TAAATS consoles is likewise retained for 30 days but the replay doesn't fully duplicate what the controller was seeing - from memory aircraft label positions aren't duplicated for instance.
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 03:51
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Merci Mons. Le P.,

Does AsA still have 'chinagraphs'..??
Cheerrrsss....
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 04:02
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I'm sure I saw one in the bottom of a drawer within the last year or two.......
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Old 8th Mar 2021, 09:46
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Who do you think pays for infrastructure?
Since most infrastructure is privatised these days, the user pays, not the taxpayer generally. There isn't a whole lot of major government infrastructure left. The taxpayer nowadays just mostly pays for bureaucracy, and bureaucracy doesn't have to make a profit (is in fact disincentivized - Yes Minister anyone?), hence the privatisation required when governments run out of money.
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Old 13th Mar 2021, 10:06
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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And yet another week gone by with total silence from Airservices. I wonder what is going on behind those closed doors? Not much if any consultation for sure!
I believe they have now run out of time for plan A and are now trying to put something on the table that they might be able to squeeze in for the December introduction.
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Old 13th Mar 2021, 20:44
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JQ won't pull out while there's money to be made. They also won't want VA to sneak in.

Affordable safety after all.
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 01:10
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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The name of this thread: ďJetstar and Ballina againĒ

What was the previous? Implication of more than 1 recently??

ATSB ref?

Thanks in anticipation.

GF
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 05:30
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gentle_flyer
The name of this thread: ďJetstar and Ballina againĒ

What was the previous? Implication of more than 1 recently??

ATSB ref?

Thanks in anticipation.

GF
"Ballina" search on the ATSB website.............

https://www.atsb.gov.au/search?query=Ballina
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Old 14th Mar 2021, 09:42
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Originally Posted by Chris2303
"Ballina" search on the ATSB website.............

https://www.atsb.gov.au/search?query=Ballina
Chris 2303 Thank you.

Yes I tried that but given all what is said about Ballina, I didnít expect to have to go back to 2017 or 2016.

Maybe the incidents didnít make it to ATSB??

Cheers,

Gf

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Old 14th Mar 2021, 21:33
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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So PPRUNErs.

re my preceding posts apart from the A320 / Jabiru incident, where is the evidence to prove Ballina is a problem?

Gf
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