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Old 8th Nov 2021, 21:42
  #8781 (permalink)  
 
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Actually if you read the proposed act changes that Victoria wants to introduce it includes mandatory reporting of reasoning and why a certain health response is required. Its basis is shifting the responsibility to the elected member from that of a government employee, so yes while Dan is elected he gets more powers, however he must also put forward an explanation and reasoning for any chosen measures, including medical advice used, which is currently not required. Most of the tripe that's being spread around about the changes, is just that, complete fabrication. The overall benefit to the community is that the process becomes very much more transparent rather than just CHO's and ministers telling you what to do.
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Old 9th Nov 2021, 01:21
  #8782 (permalink)  

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Its basis is shifting the responsibility to the elected member from that of a government employee
At a time when we're asked to trust the Medical experts, we now have to trust a Politician instead???

so yes while Dan is elected he gets more powers, however he must also put forward an explanation and reasoning for any chosen measures, including medical advice used, which is currently not required.
Not required, sure, but nothings stopping him from offering that information freely.

The overall benefit to the community is that the process becomes very much more transparent rather than just CHO's and ministers telling you what to do.
Not too transparent though...
Under the new laws, the health minister will sign off on an order after receiving advice from the chief health officer (which will be made public), but such orders are only to be scrutinised by a new advisory body selected by the government, and not a cross-party parliamentary committee.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/v...29-p5948v.html

Now, I'm no fan of Lawyers etc, but when a bunch of them are trying to raise the alarm, would it not be wise to consider what they're saying? Surely if we're to trust Medical professionals for the Pandemic, Scientists for Climate change, then I think we can listen to a bunch of Barristers when it comes to Legislation.
...the barristers argued the legislation prevented proper scrutiny of government decisions.
...urged against issuing broad powers with inadequate checks in place.
https://www.theage.com.au/politics/v...29-p5948m.html

Finally, to avoid a partisan view, would you trust the State Liberals with this power? Scotty perhaps? I wouldn't.

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Old 9th Nov 2021, 01:44
  #8783 (permalink)  
 
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At a time when we're asked to trust the Medical experts, we now have to trust a Politician instead???
Not the point, the politician is acting on the advice of health professionals. This is in direct response to the public wanting an elected official making decisions on whether we are locked down or not, not the public service. The CHO and panel will still be the direct advice on what policy should be followed, however the elected official becomes directly responsible for the outcome. Also means we the public have a direct say at the ballot box on the decision as opposed to CHO decisions who are not part of the elect.

Not required, sure, but nothings stopping him from offering that information freely.
Anything that is not required to be offered will not be given freely unless it earns votes. Especially if it can return to bite them later, being forced to divulge information on the process ensures transparency.

Finally, to avoid a partisan view, would you trust the State Liberals with this power? Scotty perhaps? I wouldn't.
That's the important part, mid next year the leadership could change and this bill will apply to whomever governs until any other change occurs. So this is not about Dan or even labor as it does not change regardless of government. The changes are clearly laid out for the public to view on the relevant .gov website. This bill is far less invasive to everyday life, than say the current form of the religious discrimination act being put forward by the feds, which has many holes that could be abused by anyone in the guise of religious belief. Or the censorship and media rules that have been slowly creeping in over the last few years.
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Old 9th Nov 2021, 05:37
  #8784 (permalink)  

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Not the point, the politician is acting on the advice of health professionals.
Are they not doing that already?

This is in direct response to the public wanting an elected official making decisions on whether we are locked down or not, not the public service.
How did they come to this conclusion? There was no election on this of course so was it an opinion poll? If so, God help us if they're legislating on opinion polls!

Anything that is not required to be offered will not be given freely unless it earns votes.
Witholding information can just as easily lose votes. Just seems odd that they're saying we need new legislation for 'transparency' when it's entirely up to them to be 'transparent'....

being forced to divulge information on the process ensures transparency.
Keeping the current powers as is & inviting an Opposition spokesperson to observe would achieve the same thing. Again, there's nothing saying they have to, but it would be an act of good faith with the Electorate that this isn't a power trip.

Also means we the public have a direct say at the ballot box on the decision as opposed to CHO decisions who are not part of the elect.
But if, as you say, they are still taking directions from the CHO then a change of Govt. with have little impact on the advice being given. Seems more like shuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic!


Anyway, nice to have a discussion rather than have things devolve into hysterics from either end of the spectrum!
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Old 9th Nov 2021, 11:05
  #8785 (permalink)  
 
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I think the key point to the transparency is 'what is the actual medical advice'. All the premiers banded on about restrictions being based on this advice, but never released minutes of what the actual advice was. Other than that, yeah probably deck chair antics on the Titanic for sure, however, the rhetoric band will surely play on....
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Old 9th Nov 2021, 19:00
  #8786 (permalink)  
 
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Ah well, most of Australia will be open for xmas, NT in January I think. MM can play on his medical advice or whatever stay shut who cares. Let’s move on with life.
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Old 13th Nov 2021, 21:06
  #8787 (permalink)  
 
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I hope nobody has booked tickets to the UK for December / January. Looks like another lockdown has not been ruled out. No way I am booking to go anywhere overseas for at least another 12 months.


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Old 13th Nov 2021, 21:32
  #8788 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Foxxster
I hope nobody has booked tickets to the UK for December / January. Looks like another lockdown has not been ruled out. No way I am booking to go anywhere overseas for at least another 12 months.

https://youtu.be/DaOZhh_bivU
FWIW, anyone who is self proclaimed as the voice of reason is most likely the opposite.
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Old 13th Nov 2021, 21:37
  #8789 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ladloy
FWIW, anyone who is self proclaimed as the voice of reason is most likely the opposite.

well the voice of reason isnít the one speaking so maybe actually watch the video before commenting. Because if or when the uk goes into another lockdown, the effects on Qantas and other airlines will be profound, not just because of the immediate closure of the uk but more importantly due to the loss in confidence in the public.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 05:28
  #8790 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Foxxster
I hope nobody has booked tickets to the UK for December / January. Looks like another lockdown has not been ruled out. No way I am booking to go anywhere overseas for at least another 12 months.
The UK government science advisors are not forecasting a winter lockdown this time.

Nowhere in that video does BJ mention lockdowns so I don't know what that guy is on about. Seems to be a total conspiracy channel, plenty of far right theories about vaccines, Covid hoax, marxists taking over everything, you know, the usual loony stuff. At the moment conspiracy theorists are a bit mad that their freedoms they got as a result of everyone else getting a vaccine and helping out society for a while are being lost as the consequences of a lot of them remaining unjabbed are being shown. There are some European countries tightening up restrictions but these are almost all for the unvaccinated, hopefully a push for them to get a jab. Australia has about 69% fully vaccinated now, compared to places like the UK and Germany with 67-68% and we are still increasing, should be close to 80% total population and well over 90% 12+ by year's end. Countries that reached this higher level of vaccination like Spain and Portugal haven't been affected by the current European wave.

As Australia will have a much higher vaccination rate and will impose a lot more restrictions on the unvaccinated from the start of opening up then we should avoid those problems here.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 10:33
  #8791 (permalink)  
 
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I tend to agree with Dr Dre, yes I won’t forgive the idiotic PM for his pathetic vaccine rollout, but I always knew Australia would answer the call and achieve higher vaccination rates than most other countries, hell you only have to look at the childhood vaccination rates here to see this. These so called health experts were warning of a massive spike in cases in NSW and VIC after reopening, they have been comprehensively proven bull$hit. For Christ sake it’s only a reopening for the fully vaccinated, it’s pretty common sense there would be no spike in cases.

Apparently case numbers don’t matter yet 2 days ago you had the Murdoch media going on about a disturbing upward trend yet today spruiking a massive drop in cases… I mean WTF ? Are journalists these days properly educated or are they just becoming more brain dead by the year?

As a nation we have completely lost the plot, we have become a bastion of Snowflakes and idiots that are putting up a siege mentality rather than actually knowing properly what the go is overseas. Japan just had 201 new cases of Covid yesterday, in a population of 125 million. Yes bejesus in a month you can come from VIC to QLD but hell no! QLD needs 90% of 12+ before international quarantine free travel. What a frickin joke. You will need hotel quarantine coming from Japan next month but no quarantine from VIC.

At the moment you have 2085% more chance of contracting Covid in VIC than in Japan but let’s open up to VIC first..we have completely lost it.
The health experts have taken over and we are losing because of it. I mean the ACT just relaxed restrictions last week and they are at 95% fully vaccinated? WTF?

I for one have given up on all the idiotic states bull crap , and will be using my copious amounts of leave to remove myself from any duty that requires bull dust quarantine. It’s over, wake up and sort this country out, otherwise I’m out!

I do believe however come April May Australia will get a spike in cases, but that only will suck if your unvaccinated…
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 13:26
  #8792 (permalink)  
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I tend to agree with Dr Dre, yes I won’t forgive the idiotic PM for his pathetic vaccine rollout, but I always knew Australia would answer the call and achieve higher vaccination rates than most other countries, hell you only have to look at the childhood vaccination rates here to see this. These so called health experts were warning of a massive spike in cases in NSW and VIC after reopening, they have been comprehensively proven bull$hit. For Christ sake it’s only a reopening for the fully vaccinated, it’s pretty common sense there would be no spike in cases.

Apparently case numbers don’t matter yet 2 days ago you had the Murdoch media going on about a disturbing upward trend yet today spruiking a massive drop in cases… I mean WTF ? Are journalists these days properly educated or are they just becoming more brain dead by the year?

As a nation we have completely lost the plot, we have become a bastion of Snowflakes and idiots that are putting up a siege mentality rather than actually knowing properly what the go is overseas. Japan just had 201 new cases of Covid yesterday, in a population of 125 million. Yes bejesus in a month you can come from VIC to QLD but hell no! QLD needs 90% of 12+ before international quarantine free travel. What a frickin joke. You will need hotel quarantine coming from Japan next month but no quarantine from VIC.

At the moment you have 2085% more chance of contracting Covid in VIC than in Japan but let’s open up to VIC first..we have completely lost it.
The health experts have taken over and we are losing because of it. I mean the ACT just relaxed restrictions last week and they are at 95% fully vaccinated? WTF?

I for one have given up on all the idiotic states bull crap , and will be using my copious amounts of leave to remove myself from any duty that requires bull dust quarantine. It’s over, wake up and sort this country out, otherwise I’m out!

I do believe however come April May Australia will get a spike in cases, but that only will suck if your unvaccinated…
Changing jobs are ya?
As a professional pilot we use data that has been proven by thousands of hours of engineering and flight test data to do our job. Some of us still stuff it up.
The Health professionals, the majority of whom would have done far more education in their field that the average line pilot, are being pilloried for doing their job in a situation where they have no tried and tested data.

I suggest that we all pull our heads in, stick to what we know and let the health professionals do their job.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 13:33
  #8793 (permalink)  
 
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Not changing jobs at all?
haha are you saying health professionals are getting a raw deal? No they deserve to leave if they are unvaccinated, simple. 98% of health professionals have done their job, do you support the nutter 2%? It’s simple get vaccinated or lose, protests won’t work.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 13:39
  #8794 (permalink)  
 
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The interesting thing is both my parents and both my 2 siblings are doctors and they have basically said you are a complete ****wit if you don’t want the vaccine. Truth doesn’t matter until your breathing razor blades. Idiots.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 13:43
  #8795 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 43Inches
Actually if you read the proposed act changes that Victoria wants to introduce it includes mandatory reporting of reasoning and why a certain health response is required. Its basis is shifting the responsibility to the elected member from that of a government employee, so yes while Dan is elected he gets more powers, however he must also put forward an explanation and reasoning for any chosen measures, including medical advice used, which is currently not required. Most of the tripe that's being spread around about the changes, is just that, complete fabrication. The overall benefit to the community is that the process becomes very much more transparent rather than just CHO's and ministers telling you what to do.
Exactly. One of the reasons it has been done also, is to ensure that a person making decisions of such gravity resides in the Parliament and is therefore answerable to the people via election, rather than a public servant.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 16:00
  #8796 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 601
Changing jobs are ya?
As a professional pilot we use data that has been proven by thousands of hours of engineering and flight test data to do our job. Some of us still stuff it up.
The Health professionals, the majority of whom would have done far more education in their field that the average line pilot, are being pilloried for doing their job in a situation where they have no tried and tested data.

I suggest that we all pull our heads in, stick to what we know and let the health professionals do their job.
While that is some what true, it doesn't mean they should all be given free reign. It's not the roll of politicians to just blindly follow every bit of advice (even medical professionals). Their role is take advice from multiple sides and sources then make the tough decisions. Its like listening to the Family of a dying man begging you to land at that Little island in the middle of the Pacific. Sure the hospital down there might save his life but you have other things to consider too. All this hiding behind world's best health advice without any consideration for the consequences is Just weak leaders too afraid to make the difficult decisions.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 16:53
  #8797 (permalink)  
 
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I apologize for my previous message. I lost the manners.



Last edited by IXUXU; 15th Nov 2021 at 00:32.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 19:23
  #8798 (permalink)  
 
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I haven’t been bothered to weigh in on this thread for months now because the idioti frankly are not worth my time. This last idiot even less so.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 20:30
  #8799 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by 601
Changing jobs are ya?
As a professional pilot we use data that has been proven by thousands of hours of engineering and flight test data to do our job. Some of us still stuff it up.
The Health professionals, the majority of whom would have done far more education in their field that the average line pilot, are being pilloried for doing their job in a situation where they have no tried and tested data.

I suggest that we all pull our heads in, stick to what we know and let the health professionals do their job.
That includes those who continually question the development of the vaccines,the average person has little or no idea of the amount of work by highly trained professionals that go into this but because somebody they know says its a scam or conspiracy they suddenly become experts.
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Old 14th Nov 2021, 21:01
  #8800 (permalink)  

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It takes years based, exponentially, on the available funding. Throw more money and it takes less time.

Last edited by Buster Hyman; 14th Nov 2021 at 23:48.
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